Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 28, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-13-2020, 09:47 AM   #601
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

November, I'd say, although everything's revealed online now, so there's no rush to reveal. They could wait until December or even January.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-13-2020, 09:56 AM   #602
JP Chestnut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
The hell.. where’s the car already. They’re suppose to blow me away in excitement, right?
To be fair, reading the thread it's clear that our expectations are low - hence easy for Toyota 86 Chief Engineer to exceed.
JP Chestnut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 10:53 AM   #603
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A garage in the Midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

^ That is very true..


Kind of like school for little kids these days.. bar set very low.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 11:26 AM   #604
samb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177235
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Washington
Vehicle:
2016 Focus RS
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

For me a good street car is all about feeling fast. If you’re busy dancing your feet, moving your hands, and hearing an engine scream as the car darts around it doesn’t matter how fast you’re actually going. That’s fun! Who cares if there’s a minivan on your bumper the whole time?
samb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:05 PM   #605
torquemada
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
To be fair, reading the thread it's clear that our expectations are low - hence easy for Toyota 86 Chief Engineer to exceed.
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:09 PM   #606
JP Chestnut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samb View Post
For me a good street car is all about feeling fast. If you’re busy dancing your feet, moving your hands, and hearing an engine scream as the car darts around it doesn’t matter how fast you’re actually going. That’s fun! Who cares if there’s a minivan on your bumper the whole time?
Within reason, sure. A fun to drive 6 second 0-60 can be fun. If that same experience is delivered in a 10 second car... it’s just silly to have to work so hard to go so slow.
JP Chestnut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:29 PM   #607
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
To be fair, reading the thread it's clear that our expectations are low - hence easy for Toyota 86 Chief Engineer to exceed.
There are two camps from what I read here. Those that see a NA engine with a very modest power bump, and those who want a turbo. The former to me seems reasonable, but the latter I’m not really understanding.

Getting a turbo means adding things people would complain about... it will cost more, and it will weigh more. Both things people don’t want, and was never meant for the twins. And sure, it can be argued it costs a lot right now, but it would be priced even higher with a turbo. No question there.

Personally I think the 86/brz sits where it’s supposed to be... not a 0-60 muscle car champ, or Z/supra fighter, but more on the miata-ish side of things as a back-to-basics handling car... Just get rid of the power dip.
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:34 PM   #608
JP Chestnut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
There are two camps from what I read here. Those that see a NA engine with a very modest power bump, and those who want a turbo. The former to me seems reasonable, but the latter I’m not really understanding.

Getting a turbo means adding things people would complain about... it will cost more, and it will weigh more. Both things people don’t want, and was never meant for the twins. And sure, it can be argued it costs a lot right now, but it would be priced even higher with a turbo. No question there.

Personally I think the 86/brz sits where it’s supposed to be... not a 0-60 muscle car champ, or Z/supra fighter, but more on the miata+ side of things as a back-to-basics handling car... Just get rid of the power dip.
Get it as fast as a current Miata and then most people will stop complaining. It’s a total straw man to claim people want the brz to be a straight line burner. The Miata is half a second faster 0-60.
JP Chestnut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:37 PM   #609
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Lower the car to scrape height and use canvas and plastic zipper doors. Feel of the fast.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:40 PM   #610
Keshav
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1654
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Vehicle:
2019 GoCycle GX
MV Agusta Brutale S

Default

if it looks good enough and handles fairly well, I'll pick up a cheap automatic version in a few years and swap Tesla powertrain stuff into it.
Keshav is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:43 PM   #611
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Get it as fast as a current Miata and then most people will stop complaining. It’s a total straw man to claim people want the brz to be a straight line burner. The Miata is half a second faster 0-60.
I agree with getting it as fast as a miata for sure. I think solving the torque dip issue, playing with gearing a little, and/or shaving a few pounds can do it. That’s very reasonable and doesn’t need a turbo.
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 01:52 PM   #612
JP Chestnut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
I agree with getting it as fast as a miata for sure. I think solving the torque dip issue, playing with gearing a little, and/or shaving a few pounds can do it. That’s very reasonable and doesn’t need a turbo.
Totally agree. A 300hp BRZ would be amazing and pretty unique among modern cars, but it would also be heavier, expensive, and the engine tuning would be WRX bad.

A properly sorted NA BRZ with a high revving 2.4 would be really cool too - assuming it’s was properly sorted. The 2.4 is 20% larger than the 2.0 so if torque and hp scaled it would be around 185 ft-lb/245hp.

From all the leaked info it looks like they’re going for more torque than HP, so we might see 220/220 or something like that. That would make a huge difference from the current piddling torque.
JP Chestnut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 02:04 PM   #613
samb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177235
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Washington
Vehicle:
2016 Focus RS
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Within reason, sure. A fun to drive 6 second 0-60 can be fun. If that same experience is delivered in a 10 second car... it’s just silly to have to work so hard to go so slow.
Yeah that’s a good point, but I hope there’s no cars running 10 second 0-60s anymore
samb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 02:09 PM   #614
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Red Car
2019 Blue Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
I agree with getting it as fast as a miata for sure. I think solving the torque dip issue, playing with gearing a little, and/or shaving a few pounds can do it. That’s very reasonable and doesn’t need a turbo.

Not requiring a 2-3 shift would probably match the Miata 0-60. I don’t want longer gears, though.
quentinberg007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 02:13 PM   #615
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

I always thought having 200+ hp in a car that light was enough. It was the torque that could’ve always used the bigger bump (and no dip) to give that get-up-and-go feeling everyone looks to a turbo for.

Though for NA fours, the scaling wouldn’t really get as high as 245hp. It reaches a plateau because 4-cylinders and NA. That said, a high revving NA 2.4 with slightly more hp than now, giving a bigger bump of torque closer to 200 lb-ft would be more than enough if weight was kept somewhat similar, imo. Costs would remain similar too, and the tossable feel of light weight will still be there.

More speculation for quite a while before we know for sure though...
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 02:17 PM   #616
littledrummerboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
17 STI Sport-Tech
20 Corolla Hybrid Premium

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Not requiring a 2-3 shift would probably match the Miata 0-60. I don’t want longer gears, though.
An NA 2.4 with more torque and a slightly higher rev range could make it happen.
littledrummerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 03:21 PM   #617
Skunkers
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 115480
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Clearwater, FL
Vehicle:
2014 Mazda3 sGT
Soul Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Totally agree. A 300hp BRZ would be amazing and pretty unique among modern cars, but it would also be heavier, expensive, and the engine tuning would be WRX bad.

A properly sorted NA BRZ with a high revving 2.4 would be really cool too - assuming it’s was properly sorted. The 2.4 is 20% larger than the 2.0 so if torque and hp scaled it would be around 185 ft-lb/245hp.

From all the leaked info it looks like they’re going for more torque than HP, so we might see 220/220 or something like that. That would make a huge difference from the current piddling torque.
I've said this for a while, but yeah I think 220hp/220tq would be amazing. Even if they could just reach 220hp with less torque but eliminate the torque dip, it would be an awesome car (especially if there was still enough overhead for mods to get some gains NA).
Skunkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 06:10 AM   #618
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default The Latest Report On The 2021 Toyota 86 And Subaru BRZ Will Piss You Off

00000
Quote:
The Latest Report On The 2021 Toyota 86 And Subaru BRZ Will Piss You Off

Toyota’s TNGA Platform is a No-Go

The Latest Report on the 2021 Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ Will Piss You Off
-

In a previous report we learned that the 2021 Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ would transition to Toyota’s TNGA platform – something that would have, in theory, made the next-gen cars better. Back then, we reported that “Toyota’s TNGA platform is a better candidate. It will allow for less customization of the platform, better weight distribution and, ultimately, better driving dynamics.” Subaru’s platform was also the reason the BRZ\86 couldn’t be turbocharged because it would ruin the car’s dynamics.

Unfortunately, the latest report from Torque News says that Toyota’s TNGA platform just isn’t suited for RWD, which means both cars will continue to be underpinned by Subaru’s aging and limiting platform.

Toyota’s TNGA platform was supposed to open the door for turbocharging and better weight distribution, but with the next-gen models staying on the same platform, both cars are – as we see it – in serious trouble.

The 2021 Toyota 86 or Subaru BRZ Won’t Be Turbocharged

It took about five minutes after the current BRZ and 86 launched for people to start asking about when a turbocharged model is coming. As far back as March of 2018 the chief engineer explained why that wasn’t possible on the current-gen model.

Well, now that we know the next-gen models are stuck with Subaru’s platform, turbocharging is still off the table.

The latest report says that the expected FA24 four-banger from the Subaru Ascent and Outback will still be used, but they will be in naturally aspirated form. Power output is now expected to be 217 horsepower and 177 pound-feet of torque, a meager increase of just 12 ponies and 21 pound-feet. A six-speed manual will still be offered, but a new eight-speed auto will also be on the docket.

It’s at least a little better than the current models, but a far cry from the expected 255 horsepower and 200 pound-feet of torque that’s easily available from the FA24 with a turbocharger. The bad news doesn’t stop here, folks, and the next bit will really ruffle your feathers.

Subaru and Toyota Are Changing Very Little About the Next-Gen 86 and BRZ

As reported previously, the 86 and BRZ were supposed to get an all-new look and would even shift into premium territory. Well, if this latest report is accurate, then the now eight-year-old cars are getting little more than a facelift.

In short, the next-gen cars will be near identical, with the exception of some new badges and a few revised exterior trim pieces.

That’s it. Otherwise, the “next-gen” Subaru BRZ and Toyota 86 will be the same car with a different engine that provides very little extra grunt.

Final Thoughts Wrapped in Disappointment

I have been excited to see the next-gen Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ for the last year. The prospect of turbocharging and transition to Toyota’s TNGA platform opens the door for these two little cars to been downright phenomenal. Unfortunately, it seems that Subaru and Toyota would rather save on R&D costs and keep both models nearly the same. I mean, after all, what’s the point of switching to the FA24 for such a minimal power increase. We were expecting better driving dynamics, better performance, and something that looks a little better than the two now-old cars we have today. Sorry to say this, but if this latest report is true, the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ won’t last but a few more years before being axed altogether. If that’s the case, just remember that, while they will claim it’s due to lack of sales, it will really fall on the shoulders of the Subaru and Toyota and their reluctance to see the real potential of these cars.

2019 Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ drivetrain specifications

Type, Materials 2.0-liter, 4-cylinder, boxer, aluminum alloy block and head
Valve train DOHC 4-valves per cylinder with Dual Variable Valve Timing
Displacement 1998cc
Bore x Stroke 86 x 86 mm
Compression Ratio 12.5:1
Horsepower 205 hp @ 7,000 rpm (SAE NET) (A/T – 200 hp @ 7,000 rpm)
Torque 156 lb-ft @ 6,400 rpm (A/T – 151 lb-ft @ 6,400 rpm)

Source: Torque News

New Next-Generation Subaru BRZ-Toyota GR86 Details You May Not Like

2021 Subaru BRZ, 2021 Toyota GR86, next-generation Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR86

There is more news out of Japan about the next-generation Subaru BRZ-Toyota GR86. You may not like the latest scoop.
Visit Torque News homepage for more stories.

There are more reports coming out of Japan about the next-generation Subaru 
BRZ and Toyota GR86 sports coupe. The twins are finally getting a remodel after being around since 2012 but it may not be what performance fans wanted. There were earlier reports saying the two-door sports cars would get a new 2.4-liter turbocharged engine, the same powerplant from the Ascent and Outback models. But a new report from BestCarWeb in Japan says the second-generation BRZ/GR86 will get the bigger FA24 engine but it will not be turbocharged.

This will be a disappointment for performance fans who were hoping for a turbocharged BRZ/GR86. But the report says the sports coupes will get a naturally aspirated version of the FA24 Subaru Boxer that powers the Ascent and Outback models in the U.S. market.

2021 Subaru BRZ, 2021 Toyota GR86, next-generation Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR86

BestCarWeb says the new models will have 220 PS and 240 Nm from the non-turbo FA24 engine, figures that translate to 217 horsepower and 177 lb-ft, a bump up from the current 205 horsepower and 156 lb-ft of torque. Both models will still get a 6-speed manual gearbox but a new eight-speed automatic could be replacing the current 6-speed transmission.

There is more news about the new sports cars. The coupe will keep the same dimensions as the previous generation but it will not ride on the Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA) as was previously reported, and it will keep its current platform. The cars will not get the Subaru Global Platform which all other all-wheel-drive Subaru models now have, because a source close to the Japanese automaker says it cannot be converted to rear-drive.

2021 Subaru BRZ, 2021 Toyota GR86, next-generation Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR86

One big influencer of the next generation BRZ-GR86 is Subaru’s goal to reduce traffic accidents and its continued use of EyeSight driver assist technology to be used in all models. The second generation Subaru BRZ model will come with more advanced safety features.

The next generation of 2021Subaru BRZ-Toyota GR86 sport coupes will be identical except for badging and a few exterior trim differences. Subaru and Toyota are expected to sell the last first-generation models this year and the new models will be introduced in Japan next March (2021). But the models could be delayed because of the COVID-19 global pandemic affecting production and parts supply. Stay tuned.

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/new-...ou-may-not/amp
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 06:39 AM   #619
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Red Car
2019 Blue Car

Default Toyota 86 Chief Engineer Promises Next Gen To Exceed Expectations

Toyota doesn’t have a small, light RWD “TNGA” platform in existence. They don’t have a need because the smallest FR vehicles they build are the 3500lbs Lexus IS* and BOF Tacoma. I was highly suspect of those initial reports because of this fact. Yes, TNGA generically means modular, like how they put the rear of the TNGA-C on the GR Yaris’s TNGA-B platform, but they didn’t completely change the direction of the engine in the chassis.

* Also note the redesigned 2021 IS didn’t move to the TNGA-N platform; it is carryover of the old N platform. Dying segments don’t get new platforms these days.

Can we also get over this idea that an entire new platform is required with every model cycle? You can still make substantial changes to stiffness, ride quality, and build quality without throwing out the entire design.

Fix the lack of refinement: low/mid engine speeds, general interior materials, and the suspension that was easily, unintentionally unsettled. Add some adhesives around the cabin for stiffness and undesirable-noise reduction. Add more low weight, high strength materials around the suspension pickups and cabin. Improve suspension components (less stamped steel carryover from the Impreza).

Last edited by quentinberg007; 09-21-2020 at 08:40 AM.
quentinberg007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 07:05 AM   #620
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Agreed. I'm totally fine with them continuing with the current platform. It works well and can just be improved upon. It's not even 10 years old at this point. Look what Subaru did with the 2012 Impreza for the VA WRX. Lots of strategic reinforcement points and implementation of what they learned from developing The Twins.

And I'm still against turbocharging. Just give the engine a nice curve and you're good to go.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 08:13 AM   #621
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A garage in the Midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX 16 STI
17Golf-R 16FiST 20Supra

Default

I think the new 86/BRZ styling is good. It looks 10x better than the 400Z for sure. If between the Z vs 86/BRZ, I'd lean more towards the 86/BRZ even if the power is like half of the 400Z.

Especially for someone that already has a fast car, I think the 86/BRZ can do well as an addition.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 10:03 AM   #622
Ultimateone
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 48025
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: By the Ocean, MA
Vehicle:
2020 Supra
AZW

Default

Old news about it not being a turbo car, car websites love to clickbait about this subject.
Ultimateone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 10:06 AM   #623
torquemada
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

it´s torquenews so don´t believe anything
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 10:22 AM   #624
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

That article was hilarious. It's like up until recently they actually believed the next gen would be on a toyota platform with a turbo engine despite all news of late to the contrary. I like that it's a horror for the 2nd gen to be on the same platform as the first one when Nissan's new Z car is also a re-skin rolling on an even older platform. At the end of the day enthusiasts should be happy that vehicles like this are still available. At least the styling on this car is fairly attractive as IMO it looks better than the new Z car.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 11:48 AM   #625
wrxsubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65133
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
That article was hilarious. It's like up until recently they actually believed the next gen would be on a toyota platform with a turbo engine despite all news of late to the contrary. I like that it's a horror for the 2nd gen to be on the same platform as the first one when Nissan's new Z car is also a re-skin rolling on an even older platform. At the end of the day enthusiasts should be happy that vehicles like this are still available. At least the styling on this car is fairly attractive as IMO it looks better than the new Z car.
I don't mind most being carried over, but Subaru could have made this much more attractive by utilizing one their turbo engines be it the 2.0 or the 2.4.

It seems like it would be less R&D for a front mount setup turbo setup compared to a high output 2.4 NA. Odd choices...

I understand keeping enough space from stomping near Supra performance. I think the 4 banger supra should have more HP, not exist, or not have the BRZ exist.

The new BRZ is going to get stomped by the ND Miata and its a shame as there were parts bin engines that could have made this car special.

Last edited by wrxsubaru; 09-21-2020 at 02:32 PM.
wrxsubaru is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.