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Old 09-16-2020, 08:56 AM   #501
oichan
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Here's the thing(s).

The supra is a "halo" car that was put on a pedestal by the prior generation. Majority were let down by the final product and not because of the BMW engine but the exterior design ( I think it looks damn good now that it's grown on me).

The harmonics created have created enough of an issue to gather serious attention on the forums and publication. Toyota could simply offer a free baffle / diffuser that looks good and is function but instead, they kick the bucket down and release a 2021 gen vehicle.

Its piss poor customer service, penny pinching and general "f you, buy an after market part to fix an issue that should be there."

You can search the country and see a lot of year 1 releases still sitting on the lot. This doesn't help. To ignore it and release a 2nd year model is just plain stupid.
Zzzzzzz.. thereís this thing called car manufacturer headaches. Itís much easier said from the comfort of your desk than done.
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:05 AM   #502
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Wrong thread
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:25 AM   #503
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Wrong thread
Why?

I was talking about the buffeting plate which the 2021 Supra owners will also want to add aftermarket since adding that lip is a big task for car manufacturers. They'll probably revise it later if there is a refresh for that mirror. I agree it would've been great if they could fix it so that I can swap out the mirror base on mine using factory parts, but it was not included in the 2021.


I tried my JB4 over the weekend.. according to Burger they measured around 430whp/500lb ft on Map1, 91 octane on an otherwise stock 2020 Supra. I don't know how accurate that is, but I could barely put the power down as the tires could not keep up. The stock map is fast for street, Map1 is pretty crazy. But then, there is Map2 with even more power for 93 octane which is my octane gas. I think Map1 93octane with my Eventuri intake is plenty for me.

Going back to my old post, RWD + high torque + colder surface temps in the morning does affect how much fun I can have driving a car. While the Supra is entertaining to drive and I love mine (garage queen), I still believe AWD/MT/~300HP/lb tq (ie STI/GolfR) is the right amount of power for street driving especially in the morning. I can wring out the engine while within legal speed limits. There's just too much local traffic in the afternoons so I pull my cars out in the mornings.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:20 PM   #504
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does affect how much fun I can have driving a car.
Sounds like you don't appreciate the right kind of fun

Some of my favorite conditions are the low traction ones. Way less speed needed to d0rift0, which means it's safer in most cases, although it can be a bit more difficult to not spin out I suppose.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:40 PM   #505
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Why?

I tried my JB4 over the weekend.. according to Burger they measured around 430whp/500lb ft on Map1, 91 octane on an otherwise stock 2020 Supra. I don't know how accurate that is, but I could barely put the power down as the tires could not keep up. The stock map is fast for street, Map1 is pretty crazy. But then, there is Map2 with even more power for 93 octane which is my octane gas. I think Map1 93octane with my Eventuri intake is plenty for me.

Going back to my old post, RWD + high torque + colder surface temps in the morning does affect how much fun I can have driving a car. While the Supra is entertaining to drive and I love mine (garage queen), I still believe AWD/MT/~300HP/lb tq (ie STI/GolfR) is the right amount of power for street driving especially in the morning. I can wring out the engine while within legal speed limits. There's just too much local traffic in the afternoons so I pull my cars out in the mornings.
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Sounds like you don't appreciate the right kind of fun

Some of my favorite conditions are the low traction ones. Way less speed needed to d0rift0, which means it's safer in most cases, although it can be a bit more difficult to not spin out I suppose.
A couple-few examples from me:

(Modified Fox) No nannies, under 3,000lb curb weight, NA V8 with ~300RWHP channeled through a 5MT to a LSD turning 245 width HPS tires was my definition of fun, even in low traction; I think to 350-400 in an NA application at that curb weight, or with a mild turbo that comes in higher in the RPM range would have been fine too. Pedal control is all that is required.

(Modified WRX) 235 HPS (& 215 snow tires), DP+tune (no dyno numbers), full suspension aggressive street alignment - needed more power to be fun in any situation other than snow/ice. AWD gave too much grip off the line, once I had the clutch out I could just plant it, shift, plant it, shift etc. without fear of losing traction while under power.

(Stock IS350 Fsport RWD) 255 GT-AS ~250RWHP ~3,600lbs. I turn the nannies off when I drive. In S+ the throttle mapping is too aggressive (foot calibration still in progress), but that's where the quickest shifts happen, so when in "manual mode" that's where I hang out. It's all about throttle control, I've been feeling out the power curve, I know when I can go "banana pancake" with the throttle. It could honestly use a bit more mid-range, but mostly more up top; another 100WHP with stickier tires and I'll be happy.
I test drove an AWD model when I was buying; it would have needed a lot more power to be fun; getting the tires loose wasn't happening outside of winter weather.

(2006 Z06 Vette) ~450RWHP stock, ~480RWHP mildly modified. This is an example of where gearing is your friend; the car could probably handle another 100WHP and still feel streetable to me. 7:1 and 6.5:1 respectively. This car has limits that are way too high though, and it's kinda a snoozer left of 100mph. I'd rather a miata with that kind of weight to power, lower limits means more fun.

("Stock" S197 Mustang GT on GT500 W/T) ~255RWHP not enough, unless you dump the clutch it grips like crazy.

(Stock S550 Mustang GT) ~415RWHP - it's fine; a little throttle control and you're golden, pretty good mark for power in a street car, can handle more but doesn't need it on the street; 9:1 ratio. I'd rather it lose weight than increase power.

("Stock" Richard Petty S550) ~570RWHP - Too much for the street, but it's still "manageable". I don't go full throttle in first or most of second, I don't actually like driving it, it's a fatty.

Around 10:1 (or better) is a happy number for me in an NA RWD street car; curb Weight plays in though. If it gets too porky I just don't want to bother, if it's too light that ratio can change, a lot (eg. high power Miata).

Power delivery characteristics play in as well though, which is why a lot of my examples are NA; the B58 has a ton of low end, I've only experienced it in a 6MT RWD 340i, but I imagine in the Supra, with a tune, it could get obnoxious; roll into the throttle my friend, roll into the throttle.

I hear you though, I'd rather less weight (sub-3,000lbs), less complexity (MT+mechanical rear diff) and lower limits for more fun. I also prefer an NA engine with more cylinders, displacement & higher red line over a forced induction offering.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:15 AM   #506
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Sounds like you don't appreciate the right kind of fun

Some of my favorite conditions are the low traction ones. Way less speed needed to d0rift0, which means it's safer in most cases, although it can be a bit more difficult to not spin out I suppose.
It is true I'm getting slower in reaction time as I age so I don't have the energy I once had carving canyons decades ago and some light dorifuto, etc.

I enjoy the Supra for more of a GT car for relaxing drives with some spirited runs here and there (and primarily a garage queen for its artistic shape). It tires me out if I do too much aggressive driving. The JB4 is fun as a conversation piece, but to use it to the max.. probably will never happen.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:28 AM   #507
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A couple-few examples from me:


I hear you though, I'd rather less weight (sub-3,000lbs), less complexity (MT+mechanical rear diff) and lower limits for more fun. I also prefer an NA engine with more cylinders, displacement & higher red line over a forced induction offering.
Yeah, that's a good list of cars you've conquered.

Lower powered RWD is a lot easier to control so if RWD going for driving excitement, I'd go for something like the base 2.0L 718 Cayman once I'm done with my Golf-R.. Unless my left ankle miraculously recovers fully (which is not realistic), it will be PDC.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:28 AM   #508
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Why?

.
Sorry about that. What I was trying to convey was that I posted an article here but it didn't belong, so deleted moved to proper thread, so I had put something in there , I put wrong thread..which it was plus I was coming back to this thread with an article pertaining to the Supra ...
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:30 AM   #509
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Sorry about that. What I was trying to convey was that I posted an article here but it didn't belong, so deleted moved to proper thread, so I had put something in there , I put wrong thread..which it was plus I was coming back to this thread with an article pertaining to the Supra ...
No need to apologize. Thanks for the clarification. *thumbs up*


BTW, I got a recall on my Supra.. it was for a headlight aim adjustment cover thingie Toyota stated some cars left the factory with the wrong covers. It's supposed to have an easy access cover for the up/down dial and left/right dial should not be adjusted, hence a plug was supposed to be installed.

I checked my car and it already has the correct covers so does not apply.
I need to call the dealer to tell them to take my car off their recall list for this one as they will never see my car again until I'm ready to trade.. or a major recall where I can't do the work at home.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:33 AM   #510
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Yeah, that's a good list of cars you've conquered.

Lower powered RWD is a lot easier to control so if RWD going for driving excitement, I'd go for something like the base 2.0L 718 Cayman once I'm done with my Golf-R.. Unless my left ankle miraculously recovers fully (which is not realistic), it will be PDC.
don't get me wrong, not all my cars nor did I mention all of them, friends & family have a similar obsession to me so we swap keys often (or did until Covid anyways).

The Vette's are a couple friends - one has become a more or less dedicated track car now, still "street legal" but I don't like driving it anymore, it's got track chops once the tires are warm, but it beats you up, the other is on it's way to pure track toy too.

The S197 is my dad - it's a 2005 GT he ordered when they came out, I told him I'd install a blower on it for him if he wanted, but he likes it as is. Wheels & tires, side window louvers, sequential taillights are the only mods I have done to it for him; probably the most sane one out of the bunch. I have to do some other stuff for him as it's a 2005 FoMoCo so material & design issues (door cards, carpet, cowl issues, HU issues, gauge cluster...)

The S550's were/are my BIL - He got a GT when IRS happened, it was nice, but not enough for him so he got the Richard Petty; too much for the street (to be enjoyable to me) but he loves it; if the widebody hellcat redeye came with a manual he'd probably jump ship though. He had an SN95 prior that I did a bit of work too, but when 400+ happened NA he dumped the SN95, those early modulars just couldn't keep up.

My toy is still well under 400hp for the time being, but may cross that barrier if I put a bowtie under the hood; it will be a comparison of weight/hp of the power plant, as well as power potential; the LS/SBC development kept going while Windsor dropped off; so they are cheaper and there is more out there.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:01 AM   #511
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Word to the wise on the older S197 - have your dad check the cowl/firewall water drains for clogging if it lives outside. If they clog, the water intrusion happens right where all the electronics are in the pass. side footwell.

...ask me how I know
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:57 AM   #512
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Good stuff, Sid!
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:25 PM   #513
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2021 Supras with a build date over 7/20 currently are ECU locked and cannot be tuned in any way until something happens. Crazy stuff if you're into modifying cars but this does happen a bunch and supposedly going to start more so soon.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:31 PM   #514
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2021 Supras with a build date over 7/20 currently are ECU locked and cannot be tuned in any way until something happens. Crazy stuff if you're into modifying cars but this does happen a bunch and supposedly going to start more so soon.
ECU lock as in cannot reflash, right?

In this case the JB4 would work if compatible (not sure, I haven't checked Burger)?
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:46 PM   #515
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Word to the wise on the older S197 - have your dad check the cowl/firewall water drains for clogging if it lives outside. If they clog, the water intrusion happens right where all the electronics are in the pass. side footwell.

...ask me how I know
That is (one of the) issue I am going to be remedying, it lived outside for a few months when the moved, got clogged up with pine needles... water intrusion, carpet issues... so I get to take it apart and fix it. Thankfully it's been in a garage since then, but some damage has been done.

On topic... wonder if the new Z will prompt a manual to be offered in the Supra.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:53 PM   #516
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That is (one of the) issue I am going to be remedying, it lived outside for a few months when the moved, got clogged up with pine needles... water intrusion, carpet issues... so I get to take it apart and fix it. Thankfully it's been in a garage since then, but some damage has been done.
Oof, sorry - hope it's limited to the carpet. You might want to pull the locking wire harness connectors off the secondary junction box down there to check for signs of water/corrosion. Mine's a 2013 and has had a parasitic battery drain ever since it happened to me. I'm 90% sure it's related, but haven't pinned it down yet. Electrical problems are a bitch on late-model cars.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:07 PM   #517
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two words...stand alone ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimateone View Post
2021 Supras with a build date over 7/20 currently are ECU locked and cannot be tuned in any way until something happens. Crazy stuff if you're into modifying cars but this does happen a bunch and supposedly going to start more so soon.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:16 PM   #518
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On topic... wonder if the new Z will prompt a manual to be offered in the Supra.
It won't be due to the Z. Current Z has a manual. Mustang GT350 has a manual. M4 has a manual. M2 has a manual. Corvette has a manual. Cayman has a manual. 911 has a manual. None of those cars seemed to have influenced what they wanted to achieve with the Supra. Toyota wanted Subaru to make a vert 86 and Subaru said nah. Probably same case here with BMW.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:57 PM   #519
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2021 Supras with a build date over 7/20 currently are ECU locked and cannot be tuned in any way until something happens. Crazy stuff if you're into modifying cars but this does happen a bunch and supposedly going to start more so soon.
Good way to move '20 stock. Aftermarket will clear up the 'lock' soon enough.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:28 PM   #520
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Hmm, wow. I just read about this. I thought you were referrring to the 20’s because those were locked too but could be removed with a bench flash.

Last edited by legacy_etu; 09-24-2020 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 09-25-2020, 04:46 PM   #521
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It won't be due to the Z. Current Z has a manual. Mustang GT350 has a manual. M4 has a manual. M2 has a manual. Corvette has a manual. Cayman has a manual. 911 has a manual. None of those cars seemed to have influenced what they wanted to achieve with the Supra. Toyota wanted Subaru to make a vert 86 and Subaru said nah. Probably same case here with BMW.
Not to pick nits, but I think the Vette is auto only now too, right?
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM   #522
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correct
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Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM   #523
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The Supra was developed years ago when the Vette had a manual. All of those vehicles were. And Toyota/BMW went 8AT as the sole transmission. 400z with a manual is just a replacement to the 370z with a manual. From the sound of it Toyota and BMW never intended on using a manual from the very beginning.
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