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Old 11-30-2018, 02:38 PM   #51
neg_matnik
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Even the Civic Type-R had a rear beam setup for a little while (ditching the usual double wishbone) until Honda went to a multi-link for the current Type-R.
Almost every single French hot hatch that I grew up around had a rear beam: Peugeot 205 GTI, Peugeot 306 GTI, Renault Clio Williams, Clio 172/182/192/200 ...Megane RS.
It's cheap/inexpensive, certainly not ideal, but, when done right, it just works.

Nowadays, there are quite a few cars with nice multi-link or double wishbone setups tuned for runflat tires. IMO, they ride no better that cars with cheap torsion beams on regular tires.
I know, not relevant to hot hatches, but maybe it's worth mentioning.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:48 PM   #52
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Doesnt the Fiesta ST have a Torsion Beam?
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik
I'm a weirdo because the rear end is my favorite part. *shrug*

I just don't like how small the rear passenger window is. I watched a Redline overview where they got to open the doors and look inside. The rear passenger volume seems small too.

Remember when we hated huge grill
openings? Nobody even blinks at them anymore.


It’s unique looking. I like it.

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Old 11-30-2018, 03:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Remember when we hated huge grill
openings? Nobody even blinks at them anymore.
Still do
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'm a weirdo because the rear end is my favorite part. *shrug*

I just don't like how small the rear passenger window is. I watched a Redline overview where they got to open the doors and look inside. The rear passenger volume seems small too.

I still hate the tacked-on infotainment center.
The infotainment isn't tacked on. The reason Mazda does this, as well as mb, is to lower the sight lines out the front window. When you cram a giant screen into the dash, it raises the sight lines, and makes you feel like you're slouched in a bathtub.

BTW, this is why I love mazda:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/los-angeles-auto-show/a25356804/mazda3-skyactiv-x-future-internal-combustion/
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:11 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by alape8 View Post
The torsion beam rear was disclosed several months ago and the reason they stated (we all know cost savings, but meh) was that it drastically helped with NVH that customers had been complaining about. That being said, the Fiesta ST also had a torsion beam rear so maybe they have some decent implementation of it? Who knows

I have always been a hatch/wagon guy (and currently own a '15 mazda3 hatch), but holy crap I cannot get on board with that rear end. Maybe it looks better in real life but in photos it's just SO awkward, particularly that giant swath of sheet metal for a C-pillar. The sedan in comparison is absolutely gorgeous.
IMO The Impreza hatch is better looking inside and out. This car looks like styling took over the function part. If Subaru pumped up the Impreza engine output a little and screwed down the suspension a tad it would be perfect
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Old 12-01-2018, 08:28 AM   #57
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Torsion beam is fine for performance in a car this size... on perfect roads. It is going to be pretty ****ty on the real world back roads that have patches and dips near the edge.

Interior and overall look is really nice except for that train wreck of a C pillar on the hatch. I prefer the sedan in both the new 3 and the new Corolla. Weird.
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by pgh88 View Post
IMO The Impreza hatch is better looking inside and out. This car looks like styling took over the function part. If Subaru pumped up the Impreza engine output a little and screwed down the suspension a tad it would be perfect
It's certainly subjective. Every time I see a new generation Impreza, I think, "What a boring little crapbox".
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:08 PM   #59
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Sight lines that would make a Camaro proud.
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:11 PM   #60
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So, I have a legit question. A little snarky-ness is in this question; but, legit still. Will this car, with that horrible of visibility be enough? Mazda seems to have had a good beginning of the year; but, has had 3 solid months of slides. The CX-9, if it continues it's recent slide, is in danger of having a YTD loss of sales. The CX-5 has a comfortable margin to finish up and the 3 probably won't finish down either. I do say that without last months numbers out though. They are at less than half Subaru sales. I wouldn't think that number puts them in danger of leaving the U.S. market, right? I just wonder if this form over function is helping or hurting them.....
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:06 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
So, I have a legit question. A little snarky-ness is in this question; but, legit still. Will this car, with that horrible of visibility be enough? Mazda seems to have had a good beginning of the year; but, has had 3 solid months of slides. The CX-9, if it continues it's recent slide, is in danger of having a YTD loss of sales. The CX-5 has a comfortable margin to finish up and the 3 probably won't finish down either. I do say that without last months numbers out though. They are at less than half Subaru sales. I wouldn't think that number puts them in danger of leaving the U.S. market, right? I just wonder if this form over function is helping or hurting them.....
Based on October data, Mazda has sold 5.3% more vehicles compared to October of last year. Granted, it's almost entirely due to CX-5 doing really well.
So, no, I don't think they are about to pack up and leave just yet.
Also, keep in mind that, globally, Mazda has sold $1.6M vehicles (they say it's their 3rd record year); I don't think they will walk away from selling at least 400K vehicles over here.
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Old 12-02-2018, 05:35 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post


Sight lines that would make a Camaro proud.
Holly Hand grenades is that tiny. A mail carrier driving crazy like down a side access road couldn't hit that slot without stopping.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:18 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Even the Civic Type-R had a rear beam setup for a little while (ditching the usual double wishbone) until Honda went to a multi-link for the current Type-R.
Honda based their little egg-shaped FN2 off the Fit platform. That ended up being the bastard child of all performance Civics.. and it followed the EP3.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w97xy92/
Quote:
The problem is the FN2 doesn't at any time feel fast. You can buzz it up to the 8000rpm red line all you want, but save for a mild increase in poke from around 5500rpm, there's no VTEC kicked in yo force pinning you in the back of your seat. The gear change isn't as slick as the FK2 either, but the biggest problem is with the suspension. Not just because the chassis lacks the fluidity of the old EP3's - no lift-off oversteer heroics here, I'm afraid - but also because it's absurdly firm.

You've probably heard us and pretty much every other UK car publication out there complain about the overly harsh ***8216;+R' mode on the latest Type R. The FN2 rides rather like that, except there are no adaptive dampers here, so you're stuck with the firmness all the time.

It just never seems to settle: you're constantly jiggling around. It's irritating in town, and when you're on a bumpy B road it's downright scary when the chassis' firmness and lack of finesse sees you skating around and grappling with the wheel just to stay on the tarmac.
The Japanese market got the FD2 Type-R which was just like our USDM Civic sedan and only got the FN2 in some Mugen special editions.

Honda actually had the FK2 Type-R for 2 years with the turbocharged engine, dual-axis front geometry, and multi-link rear with adaptable shocks before bringing them to the US on the current Civic. It's also the genesis of all those stupid spoilers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Almost every single French hot hatch that I grew up around had a rear beam: Peugeot 205 GTI, Peugeot 306 GTI, Renault Clio Williams, Clio 172/182/192/200 ...Megane RS.
It's cheap/inexpensive, certainly not ideal, but, when done right, it just works.
Here's the thing. If you don't need much travel, such as with a tightly sprung Megane RS, suspension type matters very little. If you want a smooth riding and capable car on the crumbling streets of a nation that fails to invest into existing infrastructure, you want those nicer suspensions to keep your tires in proper alignment through longer wheel travel.

I just don't see this as a good move by Mazda. Toyota and Hyundai are ditching their torsion beams for multi-links that allow a better mix of roadholding and handling. Mazda is clearly just trying to offset their engine development costs.

We're going to see a bunch of reviews from folks that got wined and dined at a junket, and then got to throw the cars around a smooth race track in Spain or Italy, and then they're going to tell us that the Mazda3's suspension is incredible! It's just the same damn game being played over and over again.
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:40 AM   #64
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Dave Coleman explains the 3's AWD system and claims it will be as fun to drive, if not more so, than the outgoing one...


--kC

Last edited by KC; 12-02-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:58 AM   #65
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It's that Type R magic all over again.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Based on October data, Mazda has sold 5.3% more vehicles compared to October of last year. Granted, it's almost entirely due to CX-5 doing really well.
So, no, I don't think they are about to pack up and leave just yet.
Also, keep in mind that, globally, Mazda has sold $1.6M vehicles (they say it's their 3rd record year); I don't think they will walk away from selling at least 400K vehicles over here.

Right, but I was talking about a 3 month slide. They are 5% up YTD but 3 months of slides has bit into that(well, 2 really). October showed a 10%+ drop in sales. Including a 10% drop in the CX-5, and a 15% drop in Sept for the CX-5. Weird that followed a 10% increase. Was that a new model launch? I'm wondering if the slide continues to a YTD loss and then will this new CX-3 really matter? Are these new designs coming and people are all "woowoo. cool looking car" then getting into them and going "nope. Don't really like it". Or is it just really bad marketing from Mazda. I kinda think the latter. I can't recall the last time I've seen a commercial. For anything.
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:37 PM   #67
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Sight lines that would make a Camaro proud.
Wow. Great find. That’s terrible.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Honda based their little egg-shaped FN2 off the Fit platform. That ended up being the bastard child of all performance Civics.. and it followed the EP3.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w97xy92/


The Japanese market got the FD2 Type-R which was just like our USDM Civic sedan and only got the FN2 in some Mugen special editions.

Honda actually had the FK2 Type-R for 2 years with the turbocharged engine, dual-axis front geometry, and multi-link rear with adaptable shocks before bringing them to the US on the current Civic. It's also the genesis of all those stupid spoilers.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Here's the thing. If you don't need much travel, such as with a tightly sprung Megane RS, suspension type matters very little. If you want a smooth riding and capable car on the crumbling streets of a nation that fails to invest into existing infrastructure, you want those nicer suspensions to keep your tires in proper alignment through longer wheel travel.
Yes, I agree.
Maybe I'm spoiled because my go-to backroads are decently paved, for the most part.

Quote:
[...]Mazda is clearly just trying to offset their engine development costs.
Yeah, maybe that's what's going on.
They most likely sunk a lot of R&D money into their Diesel-like compression ignition gas engine.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:06 AM   #69
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looks like the sedan is the winner here, better visibility and styling.
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:54 PM   #70
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That rear visibility in the hatch is awful. As much as I like the hatch, I don't know if I would like the lack of visibility.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
That rear visibility in the hatch is awful. As much as I like the hatch, I don't know if I would like the lack of visibility.
How does it compare to the current/outgoing hatchback?
Is it actually worse? I can't really tell from the pics whether or not rear window is indeed smaller on the new car.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:23 PM   #72
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I can't say for sure but based on the photo above, it is worse than the current hatch. I think the current hatch visibility is fine but not Subaru good.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:49 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
How does it compare to the current/outgoing hatchback?
Is it actually worse? I can't really tell from the pics whether or not rear window is indeed smaller on the new car.
the current model is nowhere near that bad.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:28 AM   #74
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I'll stand more firmly behind my assessment of the sedan being better looking than the hatchback not only from the outside, but from inside as well. Now that is some crappy rearward visibility.
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:02 PM   #75
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As a current hatch owner that photo makes the new car's visibility look absolutely dreadful, but I'll reserve judgement until I can sit in one. Could be a trick of perspective or the camera lens, who knows.
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