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Old 07-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #1
Killernoodle2
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Default IAG Engine problems

So im trying to decide what to do today.
2007 Sti
Last week IAG told me they aren't warranting my engine, 2300 miles Stage 4 solid deck, forged pistons rods, crank, new case.
My engine drops oil pressure on the drive home, we were getting e85 in my brothers built 2005 cts-v. I was driving ahead to make sure there wasn't any 5.0 while he road tuned the car. Windows down, radio on, I get a text from my brother telling me the cars making a noise. Panic mode ensues and I frantically roll the windows up and shut the radio off. Knock knock whos there?
First response is to shut the engine down, looking around traffic I realize theres no way to pull off on the center median, so ive got to make it to the truck rest area, an 1/8 of a mile away. Once ive made it three lanes over I shut the car off and let it coast into the sketchy truck stop. I park the car on the way home the caddy's alternator dies, and we make it to about a mile from the shop, and a nice uber driver gets us there the rest of the way. (Thanks to him for being so ****ing cool)

The car cranked up the next day with 30psi cold pressure, but as soon as you give it any kind of throttle you can hear the one of the bearings is dead and it drops to 2psi. It also sounds like the compression is low. It started but it didn't really want to. I had a witness when I drained my oil and I saved a sample of it in a Gatorade bottle, the oil is black but has 70 miles on it. The bearing is ground into powder not Chunks. Cut the filter open, same thing, powder not chunks.

Call up IAG im advised to put a mechanical gauge because the electronic ones are unreliable, meanwhile being told that 30psi of cold idle pressure is "high"......

So I pulled the pan off to wiggle the rods and sure enough #3 is done. I called them up again and they begin the process of taking the engine back, I box it up in one of the engine crates Subaru sent me 250$ later Im really hoping UPS looses it and cuts me a check.

More than a month after they receive the engine, they didn't send any kind of conformation saying they got it, they were looking it over, anything really. So call them again. The engines somewhere on the shelf and they'll be getting to it soon enough.

Fast forward to a week, I get a phone call telling me the bearings are done....
(shocking) the walls are scored up, it needs a rod, all the bearings, a crank, 100mm pistons, and all the machine work.

Ok a little more than I was expecting but I did have to get the car off the highway with 2psi, or risk getting creamed by a semi.

The cost....$2765.00 thats about 3/4 of what I paid for the engine in the first place.

After assuring me that it wasn't a workmanship flaw. They go on to tell me it was my fault I probably had no oil in the car. In 2300 miles ive changed it 3 times since break in. That my pickup tube was cracked or id forgotten the Oring. Bought a killer B. My oil pump was faulty or id forgotten the oring behind it. Bought a new from subaru 08+ pump upon removal the rear rotor cover was tight and the oring was there.

I get a callback the next day the builder and the GM are on the phone assuring me they have a 1/1600 failure rate. But hes gonna help me out and see what they can do for me. Second email they want $1600 for all the parts, labor, and to ship it back to me. Something more reasonable than 2700 but I still feel like it warranty. Especially when they are willing to cover stuff that obviously isn't workmanship. The repairs are almost identical minus a crank and a rod.



My build list I can provide receipts to prove it

IAG stage 4
Arp head studs
JE Head gaskets
New from subaru, Master gasket kit, Oil pump, oil pump bolts, oil pan, oil cooler, bajo bolts with screens.
Avcs cam gears cleaned and inspected.
Head disassembled at a reputable machine shop, hot tanked, Hand cleaned, all the oil passages cleaned out. manley valves.
turbo kit we built for the car. new cleaned out AN -4 feed lines.
cleaned the manifold out, new pcv system/catch can.
Killer b Pickup tube.

Long story short, im disappointed. I bought this engine because they warranty was "iron clad". Obviously they want to pick and choose what they want to warranty. Ive never been a squeaky wheel gets the grease person, but the whole situation is ridiculous. Most likely the bearing babbitt failed, destroying the evidence in the process, spun out and all the available oil pressure decided to shoot out of the crank and starve the rest of the engine.

What do you guys think?
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:37 AM   #2
funk32
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killernoodle2 View Post
My engine drops oil pressure on the drive home, we were getting e85 in my brothers built 2005 cts-v. I was driving ahead to make sure there wasn't any 5.0 while he road tuned the car. Windows down, radio on, I get a text from my brother telling me the cars making a noise. Panic mode ensues and I frantically roll the windows up and shut the radio off. Knock knock whos there?
did you know the oil pressure dropped before your brother told you the car was ****? or only notice it after?
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:28 AM   #3
Samurai Jack
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A number of things don't add up in your story:

1. Who was driving YOUR car - you or your brother?
2. What does your brother's 2005 CTS-V have to do with anything in this story?
3. How can you hear your car making noise while driving your brother's car with the windows rolled up?
4. If the car was "making noise", it should have been shut down immediately
5. 30PSI on a cold motor is LOW, too LOW, not high!
6. You pulled the motor from the car while it was sitting on the highway and left the car there for well over a month?
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:03 AM   #4
Waddlz
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Location: Brighton, CO
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SWP

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in for results
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:10 AM   #5
VSGTS14
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2018 WRX STI
CBS

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it sounds like his brother was road tuning HIS car when it popped. if you had no oil pressure, you had a fault somewhere OTHER than the block. cause it sounds like you installed everything onto the block, am i correct?
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:49 PM   #6
Jack
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not my president
(From General)

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I am to understand that the vendor will add information in this thread. My previous comments and quotes to it have been removed.
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:01 PM   #7
monkeyposeur
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Location: SLC, UT
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03 WRB GD 205/22T 20G-XT

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What is IAGs warranty policy exactly? Did you do the install or did IAG? I would think that unless they did the install there wouldn't be much of a warranty since the end user could have installed something incorrectly or failure could have been caused by another part failing.

$1600 to get the block back and fixed doesn't sound too bad. Sucks though, sorry to hear about your issues.

Edit: IAGs Warranty: Professional installation is required to establish warranty on your Subaru engine build. Assembly should be performed
in a debris-free, climate-controlled clean room using clean and properly lubricated hardware and new gaskets. Fluids
should all be filled and checked to proper levels. Confirm that the timing belt has been installed properly, and that
cams/cam gears are properly timed. Be sure to read ALL instructions below before your initial startup procedure. If
aftermarket cam shafts were utilized for the build please see the included guide titled: IAG Performance Engine PreLube
Procedure Tech Bulletin For Aftermarket Cams.

IAG SHORT BLOCK WARRANTY INFORMATION, TERMS & CONDITIONS
IAG Performance is confident in our products and services and we proudly stand behind our workmanship. Starting from
the time of purchase IAG Performance offers a 12 month / 12K mile warranty on every engine built at our facility. If
there is an issue with the engine that was due to an error on our behalf during the machining, assembly, or in-house
installation process, you will be covered.
UIAG Short Block Warranty Limitations are as follows:
1. Warranty applies only to short block components manufactured and assembled by IAG Performance.
2. Warranty does not extend to any other part of the engine, turbocharger, accessories, or vehicle in which the
engine is installed.

3. Warranty coverage excludes any and all labor expenses related to engine removal and replacement.
4. Warranty coverage excludes any and all labor expenses or components (i.e. gaskets, fluids, etc.) needed for
reassembly and reinstallation.
5. Warranty is only offered if the short block is professionally installed.
6. Proof of proper maintenance is the owner’s responsibility.
7. All parts used in the assembly of the IAG build short block carry the manufacturer’s individual component
warranties. No warranty is expressed or implied for any customer-supplied components.
8. Customer is responsible for initiating a warranty claim with IAG directly.
9. Customer is responsible for any and all shipping, transportation and handling costs to return the engine to our
facility.
IAG Performance | 1203 Baltimore Blvd. Westminster, MD 21157 | Ph: 410-840-3555 | www.iagperformance.com 7
10. The customer will be held responsible for all engine tear down costs for claims deemed insufficient and/or
invalid.
IAG Short Block Warranty does NOT cover:
Engine damage or failure incurred by improper installation, improper or insufficient break in, improper or inadequate
tuning, overly aggressive or dangerous tuning parameters, user negligence, improper or inadequate maintenance,
failure to maintain proper type and level of fluids, fuel, oil and lubricants, abuse, alteration, over-rev, overheat,
detonation, hydro-lock, short block and cylinder head casting flaw or failure, oil starvation, fuel starvation, normal wear
and tear maintenance items, accident damage, foreign object ingestion, etc.
Warranty is also void if bearing-related failure occurs and proof of oiling component replacement cannot be provided.
Oiling components may include oil pump, oil cooler, oil pick up, oil pan, oil driven AVCS cam gears, screened banjo bolts
and all other oiling related components depending on the model year and layout of the vehicle. Keep all receipts and be
prepared to make them available if questions arise about maintenance. Proof of proper maintenance is the owner’s
responsibility.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:15 PM   #8
Mitsu
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Default

maybe it will be yet another case of 3rd times the charm.... IAG seems to have a habbit of motors being warrantied for assembly problems.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:28 PM   #9
IAG Performance
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Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: www.iagperformance.com
Default

There are a number of details in this thread that are either misleading or misconstrued. I'll do my best to address them below.

1.At no point did we explicitly state that the failure of the engine was caused by a lack of oil inside the engine (i.e. you not filling the car with oil). I think that point may have been misconstrued, or you may have misunderstood our intention in that comment. There are a variety of different oil/oil supply issues that could have contributed. Pickup issue (or missing pickup o-ring), oil pump issue, etc. etc. We were simply suggesting possible scenarios that may have caused your failure... Not trying to suggest that you didn't fill the car with oil.

2. "Iron Clad" warranty does not include replacing engines that clearly failed from issues unrelated to our workmanship or the parts that we used. From your initial calls with our team, it seems that you believe that our engines should be "bulletproof" enough to handle low oil pressure. Unfortunately, such an engine does not exist. The fact that you were experiencing low oil pressure is documented, and supported by your purchase of an oil pump from us as you were attempting to resolve the issue. Furthermore, you have confirmed that the car continued to run while the oil pressure was low, which is when this damage was done.

3. The engine was inspected by our lead engine builder, Jim Justice, who has 40 years of engine building/machining experience. His inspections and opinions are entirely unbiased. If there is a problem with our workmanship, or an issue with ANYTHING in the engine that is our responsibility, he reports so candidly, and we offer complete warranty of the engine. In your case, his inspection confirmed that this engine did indeed suffer from a low oil pressure/supply issue, which we conveyed to you. There were absolutely no workmanship issues, parts-quality issues, clearance issues, or otherwise with this engine.

4. Yes, we took care of Rodel, the customer who’s video you posted. We did so because there was an installation-related issue that caused his failure (vacuum leak/lean issue) at his original shop/installer, and I was able to convince JJ (the owner of IAG) to help him out because he was a great guy that was put in a terrible situation by their error. It was a compassion-call that I stand behind. That being said, the way that we handled his situation does not mean that everyone receives a free engine replacement when non-workmanship related failures occur. In your situation, you installed the engine, you acknowledged running it with low oil pressure, and our report confirms that cause of failure. Very cut and dry. Our sales team made you aware of the warranty denial and provided a retail rebuild estimate. After our discussion, I indeed offered you a heavily discounted rebuild cost to try and help out, again, doing my best to try and extend the olive branch to help. We in no way are obligated to offer this assistance, but we are good people here, and I felt that it was the right thing to do.

5. You were not told that “30psi of cold oil pressure is high”. Incorrect. We did ask you to check oil pressure with a mechanical gauge to confirm, because electronic gauges aren’t always reliable, that is true.

At the end of the day, there is obviously no way for anyone to win in this situation. I certainly understand your position, but I feel that we have provided a transparent inspection of this engine, and offered a very fair rate to reassemble it, should you choose to do so. When failures occur, it is always “the short block’s fault” when in reality, there are an abundance of other components and parts in an engine that we rely on to keep the short block running safely. When one of those components or outside influences causes a block failure, we have no control over the end result, and frankly are not obligated to stand behind something that clearly isn’t the result of our work. I’m truly sorry that you find yourself in this situation, and our offer to assist stands.

Regards,

Rick
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:27 PM   #10
ALOKIN
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Haltech GTX3584RS

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Welcome to the the subaru game. You got unlucky, break out the cash and try again.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:31 PM   #11
subarumod
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06 wrx
black as your girls soul.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALOKIN View Post
Welcome to the the subaru game. You got unlucky, break out the cash and try again.
cmon man.... shhhhhhh.. if you say it 2 more times, the boogie man will come get your car.. than whose next.. who???
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:30 PM   #12
ALOKIN
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Member Sales Rating: (1)
 
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
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2002 Bugeye
Haltech GTX3584RS

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Quote:
Originally Posted by subarumod View Post
cmon man.... shhhhhhh.. if you say it 2 more times, the boogie man will come get your car.. than whose next.. who???
Oh he already visited me a few times. Most recently I blew my IAG CD block up . They wanted to help because they are awesome, I told them meh, no big deal. This kind of thing happens with these jap hampster wheel motors. Trying to make power with them is expensive, fun (if you like constantly fixing shxt), a sign of insanity and poor financial habits.

Nothing lasts very long...except users, hes prob at 50K miles on his newest build already

Ultimately I cracked the factory liner on mine, nothing IAG could do about that, even though they offered, hell they didn't even do the assembly, some redneck in a garage did that....

This game aint for broke cry babies, esp ones that run their cars outta oil lol.

Last edited by ALOKIN; 07-19-2017 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 07-20-2017, 12:39 AM   #13
monkeyposeur
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****, if my shortblock blew up and I only had to spend $1600 to get it rebuilt by IAG I'd be dancing around with joy. Some dumbass built my engine in the basement!
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:41 AM   #14
Samurai Jack
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2002 Enemy of Aku

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I am to understand that the vendor will add information in this thread. My previous comments and quotes to it have been removed.
... and you apparently removed my response to your post, which applied not only to your comment, but to anyone blaming IAG without any information except the OPs post. These comments included things that show how the OP could be directly responsible for what happened to his motor.

I know you are a Moderator and you guys can pretty much do what you want, but my post was neither rude nor inflammatory.

I suppose you will now remove this post as well?

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 07-20-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:49 AM   #15
Samurai Jack
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Location: Not in my own time
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2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
****, if my shortblock blew up and I only had to spend $1600 to get it rebuilt by IAG I'd be dancing around with joy. Some dumbass built my engine in the basement!
Obviously, this guy gets it !
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:33 AM   #16
ALOKIN
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: TX
Vehicle:
2002 Bugeye
Haltech GTX3584RS

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
Some dumbass built my engine in the basement!
lol, you Sponsored by graveyard motorsports too?!?!
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:50 PM   #17
Killernoodle2
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funk32 View Post
did you know the oil pressure dropped before your brother told you the car was ****? or only notice it after?
the gauge doesnt have an audible tone, its an aem gauge I use to testing pressures, it sits in a pod on the dashboard where i was to busy admiring the cts-v in its new found glory. sorry i understand theres some clarity issues.
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:08 AM   #18
Killernoodle2
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAG Performance View Post
There are a number of details in this thread that are either misleading or misconstrued. I'll do my best to address them below.

1.At no point did we explicitly state that the failure of the engine was caused by a lack of oil inside the engine (i.e. you not filling the car with oil). I think that point may have been misconstrued, or you may have misunderstood our intention in that comment. There are a variety of different oil/oil supply issues that could have contributed. Pickup issue (or missing pickup o-ring), oil pump issue, etc. etc. We were simply suggesting possible scenarios that may have caused your failure... Not trying to suggest that you didn't fill the car with oil.

2. "Iron Clad" warranty does not include replacing engines that clearly failed from issues unrelated to our workmanship or the parts that we used. From your initial calls with our team, it seems that you believe that our engines should be "bulletproof" enough to handle low oil pressure. Unfortunately, such an engine does not exist. The fact that you were experiencing low oil pressure is documented, and supported by your purchase of an oil pump from us as you were attempting to resolve the issue. Furthermore, you have confirmed that the car continued to run while the oil pressure was low, which is when this damage was done.

3. The engine was inspected by our lead engine builder, Jim Justice, who has 40 years of engine building/machining experience. His inspections and opinions are entirely unbiased. If there is a problem with our workmanship, or an issue with ANYTHING in the engine that is our responsibility, he reports so candidly, and we offer complete warranty of the engine. In your case, his inspection confirmed that this engine did indeed suffer from a low oil pressure/supply issue, which we conveyed to you. There were absolutely no workmanship issues, parts-quality issues, clearance issues, or otherwise with this engine.

4. Yes, we took care of Rodel, the customer who’s video you posted. We did so because there was an installation-related issue that caused his failure (vacuum leak/lean issue) at his original shop/installer, and I was able to convince JJ (the owner of IAG) to help him out because he was a great guy that was put in a terrible situation by their error. It was a compassion-call that I stand behind. That being said, the way that we handled his situation does not mean that everyone receives a free engine replacement when non-workmanship related failures occur. In your situation, you installed the engine, you acknowledged running it with low oil pressure, and our report confirms that cause of failure. Very cut and dry. Our sales team made you aware of the warranty denial and provided a retail rebuild estimate. After our discussion, I indeed offered you a heavily discounted rebuild cost to try and help out, again, doing my best to try and extend the olive branch to help. We in no way are obligated to offer this assistance, but we are good people here, and I felt that it was the right thing to do.

5. You were not told that “30psi of cold oil pressure is high”. Incorrect. We did ask you to check oil pressure with a mechanical gauge to confirm, because electronic gauges aren’t always reliable, that is true.

At the end of the day, there is obviously no way for anyone to win in this situation. I certainly understand your position, but I feel that we have provided a transparent inspection of this engine, and offered a very fair rate to reassemble it, should you choose to do so. When failures occur, it is always “the short block’s fault” when in reality, there are an abundance of other components and parts in an engine that we rely on to keep the short block running safely. When one of those components or outside influences causes a block failure, we have no control over the end result, and frankly are not obligated to stand behind something that clearly isn’t the result of our work. I’m truly sorry that you find yourself in this situation, and our offer to assist stands.

Regards,

Rick
These statements were made by one of your sales advisors, ive assembled many subaru engines, and I stand behind any warranty I give to my customers. You were on the call when your engine builder told me I must have not installed the oil pump oring or had a cracked pickup tube. All im really asking for is that my warranty claim be held to the same standard as people who've had no obvious workmanship. This could have been a failed bearing or something else. When I get people on the phone that send Emails when they say they are gonna call me right back, or tell me I must have forgotten a gasket or forgot to put oil in my block I just spent 4200$ on. You can understand why Id be a little angry.

I gave you the circumstances why theres additional wear on the engine, having to shut your car down on the highway with 0 oil pressure is everyones worst fear. Power steering and power brakes, trump getting hit by a semi-truck. In my honest opinion. Im still willing to continue negotiate on the cost of the motor. But cherry picking warranties isnt fair to the rest of us. I get that you were trying to help me out, and I can respect that. But outright denying claims and pointing fingers is where the line should be drawn.
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