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Old 05-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #826
auskip07
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My car is at the dealer today getting the TCM and ECU updates. I'll keep everyone posted. The service rep was embarrassed that I knew more about the TSB's than they did. They say they are usually the last to know...does SOA not send out updates to dealers or do dealers just ignore them unless customers compalin?
This is a little shocking.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:41 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by seaflipper
My car is at the dealer today getting the TCM and ECU updates. I'll keep everyone posted. The service rep was embarrassed that I knew more about the TSB's than they did. They say they are usually the last to know...does SOA not send out updates to dealers or do dealers just ignore them unless customers compalin?
Not shocking AT ALL. Most of us have had the same experience & come to the same conclusions. I'm not sure if it was G-Omaha or Ocellaris who had some insight on how the TSBs are treated.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by nubsub View Post
although 25 mi is a short distance, it sounds like you have had your car long enough to know what it was like before the update, and now the differences.

care to share what you have observed thus far in terms of what you mean by improved driveability and gain in MPG?

regardless, keep us posted on the long term.

(it makes me wonder that even if this really helps the driveability and milage a lot, how many customers out there (many not on this forum) who will own their car for 5-10 years and get less than optimal performance in shifting and mileage because they are unaware of these updates...)
Prior to the re-flash, needed to get up to about 5k RPMs for interstate access. Now it feels more like the 2010 OB that I also have with the RPMs slowly going up and am able to get to 60 MPH without pushing the RPMS into the 4k range.

When coasting on level ground, I no longer experience engine drag - I used to be able to feel a pronounced down shift and see the RPMs raise and feel a large amount of engine braking. While the RPMs did raise, they did not raise a lot when coasting on level ground or slight descents (500 RPMs or less). When costing down a steep/moderate hill, the engine's RPMs will now increase to about 2.3k RPMs; however, you can not sense a down-shift and the engine drag/braking at that point is slight to moderate. Apply a little gas and the RPMs go down again and the braking ceases.

MPG gain was 2MPG, as registered on the console. From 24.6 to 26.9.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:56 PM   #829
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Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
Prior to the re-flash, needed to get up to about 5k RPMs for interstate access. Now it feels more like the 2010 OB that I also have with the RPMs slowly going up and am able to get to 60 MPH without pushing the RPMS into the 4k range.

When coasting on level ground, I no longer experience engine drag - I used to be able to feel a pronounced down shift and see the RPMs raise and feel a large amount of engine braking. While the RPMs did raise, they did not raise a lot when coasting on level ground or slight descents (500 RPMs or less). When costing down a steep/moderate hill, the engine's RPMs will now increase to about 2.3k RPMs; however, you can not sense a down-shift and the engine drag/braking at that point is slight to moderate. Apply a little gas and the RPMs go down again and the braking ceases.

MPG gain was 2MPG, as registered on the console. From 24.6 to 26.9.
awesome! sounds like a big improvement for you. i can only imagine how much fuel was being eaten up if it downshifted even on flat ground.

i have yet to see an engine braking yet, but i haven't encountered more than a 4-5% grade so far...i'll be very curious to see how mine behaves on steeper grades but even if it does downshift, there are the paddle shifters which is one reason i didn't buy the base model.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:02 PM   #830
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Not shocking AT ALL. Most of us have had the same experience & come to the same conclusions. I'm not sure if it was G-Omaha or Ocellaris who had some insight on how the TSBs are treated.
Twas me. The Dealers get the TSBs in "Bulk Packs" and normally they search the text portion of these packs when a customer complains about something. Unfortunately, if the costumer complaint and the TSB data are different, a match will not be found. The more able reps will query the TSB base several different ways, before ascertaining that there are no relevant TSBs. Something akin to doing Google Searches - some people have more talent doing this than others.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:10 PM   #831
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tidbit experience:

it seems that right around 45mph, there is a sweet spot on the CVT where it fall into a low RPM mode. not sure what the pulley ratio exactly is, but it's spinning at a nice low RPM and the ECO gauges goes way to the right and if i do the paddle upshift in D mode, it is showing 6th gear.

at 40mph, the mileage isn't as good and the highest gear it will take is 5th.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:35 PM   #832
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With the synthetic though it's much more expensive on this car. At least at the dealership it is. One local dealer does it for $69.95, the other I think is $79.95 & from what I've read on here some are charging $80-$90.
Ouch. I'll have to see what mine charges. At least it doesn't take 8 quarts like my truck does
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:14 PM   #833
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Default Got car back from the dealer, update on driveability

So I have SOA invovled in my MPG issue as well as the dealer, similiar I think to others in the fourm with the low MPG issue.

Just got my car back after SOA called me to tell me that the TCM update was applied and he thinks (SOA rep) that this "will fix it". We'll see

When I got to the dealer the tech said that it looked like my software was all up to date, had the latest but they did a reflash anyway.

Despite not knowing 100% if I actually got any newer software for my ECU or TCCM right off the bat driving off the lot I could feel a difference though. My acceleration is WAY smoother (and faster) than it was before, I literally started laughing when I was driving because the difference was so pronounced. Acceleration is smooth the issue I always had right around 40 mph (sluggish when you hit 40 in city) just went away, it's like a hot knife right through butter at 40 now. Downhill engine braking is not nearly pronounced - at least on the hill I tested it on on my drive home (a hill I drive every day, I did notice it is different now for sure.) Coasting is smoother too - on a flat road I accelerated and could take my foot off the gas much sooner than previously and the car seems to coast more "freely" than before without requiring more gas as soon as before - and I noticed this difference within 100 feet of leaving the dealer.

My loaner car while the Imp Sport was at the dealer was a 2012 CVT Outback and I noticed significant differences in how that car handled compared to my Imp. Different car yes but CVT differences were obvious to me - the Outback had very little downhill engine breaking and driving the Outback I had to really press down hard on the gas pedal to get it to go into the minus side of the eco gauge. On the Outback it was easy to stay in the middle or on the + side of the eco gauge. After picking the Imp back up I noticed right away that my eco gauge is behaving differently too, it was easier to keep it at the middle or + side as well without sacrificing speed.

I also noticed that my idle RPM's seems to be a tad bit lower than it was before. I can't be 100% sure on this but it seems like I was always idling at or slightly above 1000 and now I am at under 1000 for sure.

Anyway...I noticed all of this in just a 6.4 mile ride home from the dealer. Way to early to really say anything other than the car handles differently. Time will tell about the MPGs.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #834
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Ouch. I'll have to see what mine charges. At least it doesn't take 8 quarts like my truck does
wow. 8 quarts. i don't think my old '73 ford station with it's 429 cubic inch block used that much. (i think it was 6-7 quarts)

coming from my 1.6litre honda using 3.5 qts, the 5.3 qts seems like a lot
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:29 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by seaflipper View Post
So I have SOA invovled in my MPG issue as well as the dealer, similiar I think to others in the fourm with the low MPG issue.

Just got my car back after SOA called me to tell me that the TCM update was applied and he thinks (SOA rep) that this "will fix it". We'll see

When I got to the dealer the tech said that it looked like my software was all up to date, had the latest but they did a reflash anyway.

Despite not knowing 100% if I actually got any newer software for my ECU or TCCM right off the bat driving off the lot I could feel a difference though. My acceleration is WAY smoother (and faster) than it was before, I literally started laughing when I was driving because the difference was so pronounced. Acceleration is smooth the issue I always had right around 40 mph (sluggish when you hit 40 in city) just went away, it's like a hot knife right through butter at 40 now. Downhill engine braking is not nearly pronounced - at least on the hill I tested it on on my drive home (a hill I drive every day, I did notice it is different now for sure.) Coasting is smoother too - on a flat road I accelerated and could take my foot off the gas much sooner than previously and the car seems to coast more "freely" than before without requiring more gas as soon as before - and I noticed this difference within 100 feet of leaving the dealer.

My loaner car while the Imp Sport was at the dealer was a 2012 CVT Outback and I noticed significant differences in how that car handled compared to my Imp. Different car yes but CVT differences were obvious to me - the Outback had very little downhill engine breaking and driving the Outback I had to really press down hard on the gas pedal to get it to go into the minus side of the eco gauge. On the Outback it was easy to stay in the middle or on the + side of the eco gauge. After picking the Imp back up I noticed right away that my eco gauge is behaving differently too, it was easier to keep it at the middle or + side as well without sacrificing speed.

I also noticed that my idle RPM's seems to be a tad bit lower than it was before. I can't be 100% sure on this but it seems like I was always idling at or slightly above 1000 and now I am at under 1000 for sure.

Anyway...I noticed all of this in just a 6.4 mile ride home from the dealer. Way to early to really say anything other than the car handles differently. Time will tell about the MPGs.
yay! i'm so happy for you guys having positive experiences with the updates. you all, who were the pioneers of the '12 impreza 2.0i are now experiencing what us late adopters are experiencing.

i know some people don't think the ECO gauge is helpful, but since i like leaving my computer reading the average trip mileage, i do find it somewhat helpful for me to feather the gas at the right level or tail off on my acceleration to optimize mileage. (of course the computer the Canadians have would be better!)

idle RPMs: once warmed up, my idle speed is at 650rpm.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #836
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My wife took 'er into Ramsey Subaru today. The only applied the ECM update. Writeup: "Road Test /Nothing abnormal felt Check for ECM/TCM updates / Noted 1 update for ECM Inspect and diga. Update ECM unit. 455-288 0.4 UPG-48 WC"

We had explained our actual symptoms in line with both service bulletins and also provided both service bulletins.

Will have some idea of qualitative soon and after 2 tanks/2 weeks I think we'll have a good idea of MPG impact.



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Originally Posted by deanm11 View Post
Have just past 7500 miles on our CVT hatch now. We typically get an average of city and highway in our cars with our almost 100% suburban driving. Mileage improved slowly and has been about the same for the last few thousand miles. Hand calculated and adjusted for odometer error, life average and typical tanks are now right about 28.5. Lifetime avg mpg is 28mph ish. Pure suburban driving tanks average around 25mph. The life average is higher from a few longer highway trips.

Car was manufactured in Oct '08 and we picked up December. The overly aggressive downshift/engine braking decel is very annoying- can happen on the very slightest of grades sometimes. The uneven acceleration is also noticeable so the descriptions in the two TSBs fit our experience well. Will attempt with dealer this week. I feel like we're missing 1.5-2.5mpg but I want the updates at least to clear the annoyances.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:16 PM   #837
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"it seems that right around 45mph, there is a sweet spot on the CVT where it fall into a low RPM mode. not sure what the pulley ratio exactly is, but it's spinning at a nice low RPM and the ECO gauges goes way to the right and if i do the paddle upshift in D mode, it is showing 6th gear.

at 40mph, the mileage isn't as good and the highest gear it will take is 5th."

You can manually shift into 6th at ~48 mph, and then slow down to 45 mph. It will auto-downshift back to 5th a couple mph slower than that. In auto, it'll hold 6th down to about 38 mph at almost 0% throttle (or decel).
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:35 PM   #838
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Well I really thought colder temps made for worse MPG. I drive 40 miles one-way...

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Old 05-12-2012, 12:18 AM   #839
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I also noticed that my idle RPM's seems to be a tad bit lower than it was before. I can't be 100% sure on this but it seems like I was always idling at or slightly above 1000 and now I am at under 1000 for sure.
Unless your A/C is on, it should idle at 650 RPM. A 1000 RPM idle will put a dent in your city numbers.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:45 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by subiTWO
Well I really thought colder temps made for worse MPG. I drive 40 miles one-way...
Lots of scatter and no real trend. I'm guessing that because you drive is long enough any effect of the cold for the first miles is overwhelmed by other variability in your drive. (traffic, speed, etc.)

Last edited by nubsub; 05-12-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:46 AM   #841
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Originally Posted by subiTWO
"it seems that right around 45mph, there is a sweet spot on the CVT where it fall into a low RPM mode. not sure what the pulley ratio exactly is, but it's spinning at a nice low RPM and the ECO gauges goes way to the right and if i do the paddle upshift in D mode, it is showing 6th gear.

at 40mph, the mileage isn't as good and the highest gear it will take is 5th."

You can manually shift into 6th at ~48 mph, and then slow down to 45 mph. It will auto-downshift back to 5th a couple mph slower than that. In auto, it'll hold 6th down to about 38 mph at almost 0% throttle (or decel).
You are likely right. I said 45 as a rough guess at which the transition occurs. I've definitely slowed to 40mph and stayed in the high gear.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:32 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by cad2sub View Post
ha. i paid close to 65 bucks on the oil and filter at advanced auto parts so that dont seem 2 bad
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Originally Posted by SleepNMnky View Post
With the synthetic though it's much more expensive on this car. At least at the dealership it is. One local dealer does it for $69.95, the other I think is $79.95 & from what I've read on here some are charging $80-$90.
If you don't mind changing your own oil, you can get 6 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-20 and a Mobil 1 oil filter right now online at Advance Auto Parts for $39.58! Only problem is that you'll have to pick up the oil at your local store cause they won't ship it. Not a bad deal at all considering how much some people here are paying.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:21 AM   #843
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If you don't mind changing your own oil, you can get 6 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-20 and a Mobil 1 oil filter right now online at Advance Auto Parts for $39.58! Only problem is that you'll have to pick up the oil at your local store cause they won't ship it. Not a bad deal at all considering how much some people here are paying.
M1 filters aren't cheap either!
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:40 AM   #844
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Went to the dealer yesterday to ask about the ECM TCM updates. They looked at me like I was talking gibberish. Their first words were that there are NO TSBs for the Impreza. After a polite argument they found the TSB for the steering column cover and said "what the heck is this all about?" Then they found 11-113-12 (acceleration) but the paperwork she printed out said it was only for vehicles built Sept 11, my build is Jan 12. She could not find 11-115-12 (engine braking).

I have an appointment on Tues. I was told they can't just update the files, so one of the managers will have to drive my car and "see what's going on". Either they're embarrassed that I have more info than they do or they think I'm a moron. I suppose I'll have to pony up the 35 bucks to print the TSBs

Nubsub: Regarding the engine braking, for me it doesn't have to be a long or steep hill. It just has to be enough for the car to accelerate slightly with my foot off the gas. The CVT shifts and the engine is turning about 3000 at 35-40 mph.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:37 PM   #845
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Went to the dealer yesterday to ask about the ECM TCM updates. They looked at me like I was talking gibberish. Their first words were that there are NO TSBs for the Impreza. After a polite argument they found the TSB for the steering column cover and said "what the heck is this all about?" Then they found 11-113-12 (acceleration) but the paperwork she printed out said it was only for vehicles built Sept 11, my build is Jan 12. She could not find 11-115-12 (engine braking).

I have an appointment on Tues. I was told they can't just update the files, so one of the managers will have to drive my car and "see what's going on". Either they're embarrassed that I have more info than they do or they think I'm a moron. I suppose I'll have to pony up the 35 bucks to print the TSBs

Nubsub: Regarding the engine braking, for me it doesn't have to be a long or steep hill. It just has to be enough for the car to accelerate slightly with my foot off the gas. The CVT shifts and the engine is turning about 3000 at 35-40 mph.
LOL its like we all purchased a windows product. How many updates?
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:02 PM   #846
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LOL its like we all purchased a windows product. How many updates?
Apologies if this is a dickish response but I take exception to this every time.

It's like we bought something with a computer in it.

Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, Amazon, Yahoo, motherboard bios, Java applications, anything on the web, your TV, your DVD player, your coffee maker, your dishwasher ALL have code in them telling them how to behave and probably were written by a recent college grad. Same goes for ALL cars that have an ECU/TCU/Head unit, etc.

Millions of people writing billions of lines of code are bound to eff up somewhere. At least the updates are free (as in included).

I'm happy there are actually RELEASED FIXES. There's nothing worse than an unresponsive vendor.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:06 PM   #847
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Well I really thought colder temps made for worse MPG. I drive 40 miles one-way...

Take away the outliers (I don't know the statistics terminology but I'm pretty sure that's a legit method) and I see a bit of a trend.

There's a curve fit function in Excel that would show something. Can't remember where...
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #848
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Just went down and had them check for a flash none needed, built 11/11, delivered 2/6. Their theory is that it was updated at port. On the way back from the dealer, 56 miles 40.2 ave mpg, pics to follow.

after filling up here is what i saw for the expected range not that's it's going to happen.


and here is the average mpg after 56 miles

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Old 05-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by hemophilic

Take away the outliers (I don't know the statistics terminology but I'm pretty sure that's a legit method) and I see a bit of a trend.

There's a curve fit function in Excel that would show something. Can't remember where...
There are ways to remove outliers like a median filt. Of course e en if there is a correlation, it has to be statistically significant both in terms of variance explained and degrees of freedom.

If the original poster wishes to send me the data I can take the 5-10 min to do the analysis in matlab. But my guess it's borderline just looking at it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #850
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Nubsub: Regarding the engine braking, for me it doesn't have to be a long or steep hill. It just has to be enough for the car to accelerate slightly with my foot off the gas. The CVT shifts and the engine is turning about 3000 at 35-40 mph.
i still haven't encountered it...i've only had short/gentle downhills that might cause a very slight acceleration. but as soon as i find a steep enough hill, i'll see what it does.

of course my car should already have the update, and with a steep enough hill, i would think the CVT should do some sort of engine braking...of course, i'd prefer to have control over that and i'd manually shift if necessary, but i'm guessing they are trying to "help out" the driver who would usually use their brakes a lot.

i'm guessing in practice, it's hard to get this perfectly right. if my experience is for the updated behavior, i think it works fine, at least not living in a terribly hilly experience. if its a little overzealous on long highway grades, i'll just switch to manual (that was my intent anyway in buying a trim line with the paddle shifters as opposed to the simple L gear on the base trim)
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