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Old 08-16-2012, 09:23 PM   #1976
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Ok, I am convinced. The turbo stays and the car gets drunk. Due to my little fuel issue earlier in the year, Phil has strongly suggested that I run the car the way it is until 2000 miles. At 2000 miles I will be swapping to E85 and Redline 15w50. I will NOT be swapping turbos (at least not this year).
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:36 PM   #1977
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In other news, I see that a ton of tuners and engine builders have been experiencing cracked blocks lately. They all seem to have the very latest "post tsunami" build date blocks which is exactly what I currently have. A friend recently told me that Maxwell Power is no longer building new blocks due to this issue. I talked to Nate from TPG and he is also aware of the situation and feels that the stock blocks are only good to about 500whp on a dyno-jet or 450whp on Mustang. Has anybody else heard anything?

In the meantime, I think I am going to get the car tuned on E85 but limit the power to 450whp for the balance of 2012 and 2013. Then during the winter of 2013/2014 I will look into either swapping to an older "pre tsunami" block or possibly do sleeves. Who knows, maybe there will be a better solution out by then.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #1978
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That's news to me. I haven't noticed any uptick in cracked blocks or sleeves lately. Who's breaking them?
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:40 PM   #1979
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I think your falling into the something is going to happen to my car blah blah blah phase. Enjoy the car!! Watch the AFRs and oil pressure and check the oil level during fill ups. As long as its a conservative tune and you have a fail safe for the meth you should be fine!
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:43 PM   #1980
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That's a low whp limit on e85 I made 510whp at 22psi on a mustang dyno with a very similar setup
You will be at like 17 psi and 450whp
Not even coming close to pushing it!!
If that's all you really ever want to push it I would go to a 30r size turbo crazy fast spool and still be capable of 480ish on e85

Last edited by shilohb; 08-16-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:00 PM   #1981
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I will search for a few:

See post 66 here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=cracked+block
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:17 PM   #1982
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But that block was a 2-3 year old block. You know if you look hard enough you can always find something to be worried about. If you're going to spend all your time doing that what's the fun of owning the car if you're afraid to drive it.

I'm a little apprehensive when I put a new motors in for about 6 months as I slowly ramp up my beatings. After that its on. If you can't ever relax and just drive your car you might as well part it out because you'll never be comfortable with it.

Your situation is a little different because you've experienced so many issues but it seems like you really are just looking for reasons to fail again.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:21 PM   #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd
But that block was a 2-3 year old block. You know if you look hard enough you can always find something to be worried about. If you're going to spend all your time doing that what's the fun of owning the car if you're afraid to drive it.

I'm a little apprehensive when I put a new motors in for about 6 months as I slowly ramp up my beatings. After that its on. If you can't ever relax and just drive your car you might as well part it out because you'll never be comfortable with it.

Your situation is a little different because you've experienced so many issues but it seems like you really are just looking for reasons to fail again.
To add if u keep looking , u will find something.

Enjoy the car. Stop expecting things to happen.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:21 PM   #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd
But that block was a 2-3 year old block. You know if you look hard enough you can always find something to be worried about. If you're going to spend all your time doing that what's the fun of owning the car if you're afraid to drive it.

I'm a little apprehensive when I put a new motors in for about 6 months as I slowly ramp up my beatings. After that its on. If you can't ever relax and just drive your car you might as well part it out because you'll never be comfortable with it.

Your situation is a little different because you've experienced so many issues but it seems like you really are just looking for reasons to fail again.
This to a T is what I was trying to get across in my response. Just enjoy the car!
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:31 PM   #1985
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I wasn't talking about the OP, I was talking about what Phil was talking about in regards to failures cropping up. Its pretty scary to think that I could loose another $10,000 long block. Hell, it even blew the radiator apart!
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowboyNRS View Post
We actually spent a good bit of time on the Dyno trying to get the best spool and power under the curve we can, making a lot of adjustments to timing and AVCS. The current map in Toms car is the best combination of those. The later spool is because of the mechanical parts selection not the tuning.

Tom, have you considered an HTA 30R from FP? I think it would be perfect for your power band goals!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Here's a 4th gear pull from tonight:

Code:
A/F Sens 1 Ratio (AFR)	Boost (PSI)	Ignition Timing ()	RPM (RPM)	Target Throttle (%)
20.56	-10.04	28.5	2382	1.01
20.56	-9.95	24	2354	1.23
20.56	-4.37	28.5	2334	100
20.56	0.53	33.5	2406	100
15.5	1.19	31.5	2557	100
15.62	1.81	29	2653	100
14.81	2.53	27.5	2773	100
14.13	3.24	25.5	2893	100
13.55	4.22	25.5	3043	100
13.44	5.22	23.5	3195	100
13.21	6.23	21	3373	100
12.86	7.44	18	3524	100
12.63	9.1	14.5	3716	100
12.17	11.75	12	3885	100
11.03	15.94	4.5	4112	100
11.03	18.6	4.5	4289	100
11.03	19.03	5	4529	100
11.03	19.22	5.5	4770	100
11.03	19.58	5.5	4983	100
11.03	19.63	6.5	5216	100
11.03	19.25	7	5405	100
11.03	18.77	7	5575	100
11.03	18.92	7	5831	100
11.03	19.1	7	5986	100
11.03	19.12	10	6185	100
11.03	18.93	11	6416	100
11.03	18.81	11.5	6711	100
11.03	18.76	12.5	6894	100
11.03	18.82	13	7082	100
11.03	18.83	13.5	7255	100
11.03	7.78	24	7009	0
11.6	-11.36	24	5713	0.14
13.32	-11.3	24	5220	1
20.56	-11.56	24	5147	1
20.56	-11.56	24	5083	1
20.56	-11.57	24	5048	1
20.56	-11.56	24	5030	1
20.56	-11.53	24	4942	1
20.56	-11.5	24	4905	1
20.56	-11.44	24	4862	1
Nate, how would you explain Tom's car hitting 18psi almost a full 1000RPM sooner on the street as compared to on the dyno during tuning pulls?


Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballdbk1 View Post
Fill it with e85, raise to 25psi and let's compare setups! :-)

Whoever makes less power buys beer at the next monthly meet!
How about whoever is slower around a tarmac circuit buys beer at the next meet?
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:40 PM   #1987
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That's not uncommon. My cars have always spooled better on the street than on the dyno. It can be a function of ramp rate and the fact that a dyno doesn't exactly replicate the load a car sees the street.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:35 PM   #1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582

Nate, how would you explain Tom's car hitting 18psi almost a full 1000RPM sooner on the street as compared to on the dyno during tuning pulls?
Grade, wind resistance, and different tarmac are all going to load the engine up faster
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:21 PM   #1989
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You guys saw 1000 rpm quicker spool up? Maybe you guys misread my question. I didn't ask why a turbo car tends to spool up quicker on the street versus the dyno. I asked why Tom's car spooled up 1000RPM faster on the street. And what load sites was the ECU running off on the street as opposed to what was tuned on the dyno... especially in the 3500 to 5000RPM range...

Last edited by MRF582; 08-17-2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:11 PM   #1990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
You guys saw 1000 rpm quicker spool up? Maybe you guys misread my question. I didn't ask why a turbo car tends to spool up quicker on the street versus the dyno. I asked why Tom's car spooled up 1000RPM faster on the street. And what load sites was the ECU running off on the street as opposed to what was tuned on the dyno... especially in the 3500 to 5000RPM range...
I have been wondering that as well. You are correct, nearly exactly 1000 RPM different.

Last edited by dexterous; 08-17-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:12 PM   #1991
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I didn't see 1000 rpm difference but I did see a significant one. At least a 500 rpm difference. The 1000 rpm number can be manipulated based on how the tuner operated the dyno. If he was tuned on a Mustand dyno you could set it up so the graph showed spool you could never acheive on the street by loading the car heavily sort of like brake boosting on the street. The only thing that really matters is the way it spools on the street and that his tune was compensated for with road tuning.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:18 PM   #1992
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I wasn't going to post this but what the hell. Here's the graph and info:



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Old 08-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #1993
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The thing that made me want to switch up the setup is that strange 45 degree angle that the torque follows. Given that the boost graph will look almost identical to the torque graph one could conclude that the car hit max boost (18psi) around 5250 RPM on the Dyno. Maybe Nate still has the logs. The thing that I dont get is that the weight setting on the dyno is 3625lbs which in my mind would load the car even more than normal for a Mustang 1100. I will have to look around for other big turbo graphs to see what they look like.

Obviously this isn't a "high performance" tune but I was expecting it to have a bit more "get up and go" in the 3000-4000 range.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:19 AM   #1994
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My car had a very similar dyno sheet on 93 and was a bit worried until we switched fuels and ran it on e85
this is my e85 tune

my engine is sleeved
278/282 cams
+1 valves
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shilohb
My car had a very similar dyno sheet on 93 and was a bit worried until we switched fuels and ran it on e85
this is my e85 tune

my engine is sleeved
278/282 cams
+1 valves
Wow not even 150 wtq at 3k. Must feel laggy
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:35 AM   #1996
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Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
Wow not even 150 wtq at 3k. Must feel laggy
must be reading it wrong 188 wtq at 2800
and no it feels way smoother and powerful all the way across the the rpm band compaird to the stock engine
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:03 AM   #1997
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Have you guys looked at P&L's single scroll setup? This is what makes me want to down size the turbo a bit. This car has 450ftlbs @3800 RPM which is the stuff the hopes and dreams are made of. I have seen graphs of other mid sized Moore kits (verses my large sized) and the results are even better than the P&L setup.


P&L Proto type Comp turbo kit 450ftlbs@3800rpms, full boost 3300rpm 500whp!


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Old 08-18-2012, 09:05 AM   #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Have you guys looked at P&L's single scroll setup? This is what makes me want to down size the turbo a bit. If you have seen other graphs of the Moore kit with smaller turbos you will see amazing results. This car has 450ftlbs @3800 RPM which is the stuff the hopes and dreams are made of.
WOW!!
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:34 AM   #1999
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Looks very promising! Almost makes me want to ditch the garagetuning twinscroll 35r for that kit!
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:44 PM   #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shilohb
must be reading it wrong 188 wtq at 2800
and no it feels way smoother and powerful all the way across the the rpm band compaird to the stock engine
Sorry I was looking at it on my iPhone and when I click on the picture it shows the first picture on the page. Lol.

Good spool on your car!
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