Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2012, 08:38 PM   #126
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere View Post
70% of the cars will be made with manual across the three nameplates.
On that note, I'm wondering how soon it will be until we see a review of an automatic FR-S/BRZ. I don't doubt its higher-end acceleration won't be as inspiring (as it sounds like the auto's fourth gear is about as tall as the stick's fifth, which is likely a big part of why the auto gets much better mpg), but I'd still like to know, just for kicks.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #127
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2023 Tangerine
2023 3 Cylinder

Default

Well, Jesus, have you figured out the seat thing? I'm feeling impulsive.
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 10:00 PM   #128
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere View Post
The numbers argument was started by me. I have a MKV GTI that I daily and AutoX 20+ times a year. Mine is very fast at autoX. However it's at 109K miles now so with the amount of driving I do I am looking to replace it. So I'm coming from a GTI and looking at a FR-S/BR-Z.

Point proven! Nice GTI! What have you done with it?
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 12:12 AM   #129
BlaineWasHere
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165271
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
Point proven! Nice GTI! What have you done with it?
GAIC Software
Nuespeed Intake
KW V2 Coils
Hotchkis F&R Sways
17x8 Flik FTD's (about 17lbs)
245/40/17 Hankook V3s (or whatever UHP tire is on sale!)

Pretty much as far as you can mod any car for autoX and 400 miles a week of driving for work.

This is why I'm so interested in the BR-Z/FR-S. I can only have ONE car and drive a poop load, and I want to do MORE autoX/HPDE stuff.
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 12:20 AM   #130
BlaineWasHere
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165271
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
On that note, I'm wondering how soon it will be until we see a review of an automatic FR-S/BRZ. I don't doubt its higher-end acceleration won't be as inspiring (as it sounds like the auto's fourth gear is about as tall as the stick's fifth, which is likely a big part of why the auto gets much better mpg), but I'd still like to know, just for kicks.
Yep, that's exactly why the auto get's better MPG, it's got taller 5th and 6th gears.
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 12:22 AM   #131
fourmicah
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128760
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Over there>
Vehicle:
2017 STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
You haven't driven it either... why are you convinced that it's worth it?
Those people were all gushing about how it performed during their 15 minutes with it on a track.
You're right I haven't, but I also won't need more than 15 minutes to know whether I'll want it or not. That's about the time of a standard test drive. I also don't think they need to throw a bunch of stuff in it when they can accomplish very good results without it. Then it gives the aftermarket and the individual a chance to modify what they want and not worry about the things they don't want to change.
fourmicah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 10:44 AM   #132
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere
GAIC Software
Nuespeed Intake
KW V2 Coils
Hotchkis F&R Sways
17x8 Flik FTD's (about 17lbs)
245/40/17 Hankook V3s (or whatever UHP tire is on sale!)

Pretty much as far as you can mod any car for autoX and 400 miles a week of driving for work.

This is why I'm so interested in the BR-Z/FR-S. I can only have ONE car and drive a poop load, and I want to do MORE autoX/HPDE stuff.
That doesn't sound like a competitive Street Modified car to me. STU perhaps? Still can't see that. Anyway, good on you for getting out there, but perhaps choose your mods to fit the rule book better in the future.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 10:50 AM   #133
BlaineWasHere
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165271
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
That doesn't sound like a competitive Street Modified car to me. STU perhaps? Still can't see that. Anyway, good on you for getting out there, but perhaps choose your mods to fit the rule book better in the future.
I run STX with pretty good success (I turn the chip off, engine tunes are ok but boost level must go back to stock). The only cars in STX that can really give me fits are 2.0 WRX (on tight course) and RX-8 now that they are in STX. If I run SM for whatever reason it's a mid-pack car at best. The only other thing I can do within the STX rules is wider tires (which I can't fit for DD) and camber plates (which I'm not doing because I can't burn my tires off DDing).

If I get a BR-Z/FR-S I won't run stock class either, I like to mod the car too much so I'll end up in whatever street tire class they put it in, just like I ran with the GTI.
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #134
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
In my Juke there is a sensor in the passenger seat that turns the airbag off if there is anything up to 80 lbs on it and a dash light illuminates.
I just figured this was a standard thing on all new cars.
The passenger seat sensors are standard in North America.. they usually consist of an air bladder and a pressure sensor.

The problem is, they aren't reliable enough to trust the life of a child to. The one in my MINI goes off occasionally (ie: the seatbelt chime starts up because it thinks there's an unbelted passenger) if my wife leaves her 20lb backpack in the passenger seat. This is why the manual has the warnings about placing a child seat up front. It's too bad they don't have Latch anchors on the passenger seat with some sort of deactivation switch mounted to the anchors.. that way the car would know if a child seat was mounted.

It's no wonder so many parents feel like they need an SUV or minivan for a single child.. the modern child seat laws make it very difficult for 6' adults to cart their children around in anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Well, Jesus, have you figured out the seat thing? I'm feeling impulsive.
I don't know that we'll be able to do anything about installing an airbag on/off switch (legally) unless we can prove there isn't enough room for a rear facing child seat in the rear.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 11:01 AM   #135
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere
I run STX with pretty good success (I turn the chip off, engine tunes are ok but boost level must go back to stock). The only cars in STX that can really give me fits are 2.0 WRX (on tight course) and RX-8 now that they are in STX. If I run SM for whatever reason it's a mid-pack car at best. The only other thing I can do within the STX rules is wider tires (which I can't fit for DD) and camber plates (which I'm not doing because I can't burn my tires off DDing).

If I get a BR-Z/FR-S I won't run stock class either, I like to mod the car too much so I'll end up in whatever street tire class they put it in, just like I ran with the GTI.
Fair enough. As a former B Stock RX-8 driver (back before they were dumped down a class) I'd recommend a spare set of wheels and some V710s over any other "mods". Anything else pales in comparison to the experience of that kind of grip, IMO.

shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #136
mpristave
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284761
Join Date: Jun 2011
Vehicle:
2012 WRX

Default

RX8 is a potent autox car
mpristave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #137
BlaineWasHere
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165271
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Fair enough. As a former B Stock RX-8 driver (back before they were dumped down a class) I'd recommend a spare set of wheels and some V710s over any other "mods". Anything else pales in comparison to the experience of that kind of grip, IMO.

I actaully really like competing is street tire classes. I know I have less grip but I think the driving is more fun and the classes are more competitive. I love when I have battles with RX-8s and WRXs. If we were all on R-Comp or A-comp my FWD pitfalls would be exacerbated.
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 02:10 PM   #138
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

One of the reasons that I've avoided Stock Class is that I always felt my cars would be more balanced with a few choice mods... ie: they usually understeer way too much from the factory.

The BRZ/FR-S seems like it will make for a good stock class autocross car regardless of what class it's placed into. I've never driven a truly competitive car, though and I'm not talking as someone who plans to trophy at national events... just as someone who occasionally likes to trophy at regional events.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 02:35 PM   #139
mpristave
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284761
Join Date: Jun 2011
Vehicle:
2012 WRX

Default

I would like to see a TRD supercharger kit an option for this car. It would benefit from it. A turbo IMO is the wrong idea.
mpristave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #140
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
I would like to see a TRD supercharger kit an option for this car. It would benefit from it. A turbo IMO is the wrong idea.
Seeing how Subaru has been turbocharging their flat fours for years and is already working on a turbocharged variant of this motor for the next WRX (switching back to 2.0 liters and 270-280 hp), I'm not sure of the likelihood of a TRD supercharger popping up.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #141
EtoS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102238
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: I'm lost in Trenton
Vehicle:
08 DGM STi
*RIP* 06 WRX TR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
I would like to see a TRD supercharger kit an option for this car. It would benefit from it. A turbo IMO is the wrong idea.
Superchargers are not good for small 4cyl engines. They work for bigger v6 and v8s cause they have all the torque in the world to pull it off. Can and do people super charge 4cyl? Ofcourse but the cost is significant for what you get. Turbos (especially with direct injection) are great for smaller engines cause it's very easy without much parasitic lose while not costing as much as super chargers and gaining much better performance.
EtoS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #142
mpristave
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284761
Join Date: Jun 2011
Vehicle:
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
Superchargers are not good for small 4cyl engines. They work for bigger v6 and v8s cause they have all the torque in the world to pull it off. Can and do people super charge 4cyl? Ofcourse but the cost is significant for what you get. Turbos (especially with direct injection) are great for smaller engines cause it's very easy without much parasitic lose while not costing as much as super chargers and gaining much better performance.
Worked well for the first MR2....

Supercharger would have even power gains throughout all RPM. Would be much better for a twisties and autox car which is the intended purpose of this. You could make power to redline..... the turbo they will put on it will most certainly not and will have lag.

There is a reason this is NA. They want even power and precision that a supercharger would be able to give. Turbo would IMO ruin this car.

Quote:
Seeing how Subaru has been turbocharging their flat fours for years and is already working on a turbocharged variant of this motor for the next WRX (switching back to 2.0 liters and 270-280 hp), I'm not sure of the likelihood of a TRD supercharger popping up.
Toyota has been supercharging cars for years and they have toyota direct injection on this car as it is. I dont see why its impossible. Also it would be nice to be different than the BRZ in one way.

Last edited by mpristave; 03-27-2012 at 03:10 PM.
mpristave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 03:28 PM   #143
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
Toyota has been supercharging cars for years and they have toyota direct injection on this car as it is. I dont see why its impossible. Also it would be nice to be different than the BRZ in one way.
I didn't say it was impossible, it just seems like a lot of R&D for not much benefit. I'm familiar with the fact that TRD has done their fair share of work in the supercharger department (as that's what they offer for various vehicles, like the Tacoma, Tundra and even tC), but now we're dealing with a four-cylinder boxer engine.

Besides, there isn't much of a purpose to developing a supercharger when there is already a turbo on the way, especially when it's been a successfull power adder used with that engine layout for a long time.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 04:30 PM   #144
Dex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163775
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere spilling coffee
Vehicle:
2023 BRZ
CWP

Default

Either way (sc or turbo) I hope people who purchased the first na version can add the factory turbo if they want.
Dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 04:45 PM   #145
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
Either way (sc or turbo) I hope people who purchased the first na version can add the factory turbo if they want.
You can't just add a turbo or a supercharger to a highly tuned, high-compression atmospheric engine, and hope it to work correctly, or not blow-up.

An EJ25 atmospheric engine is not just an EJ257 STI engine minus the turbo and plumbing.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 05:27 PM   #146
Chris_Lee
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110667
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX

Default

On a less serious note...

From a price vs power stand point I think the BRZ has problems. I would expect 200hp from the Scion brand and I don't have a problem with the Scion brand at all but I would expect the Subaru to be packing a better punch and have better overall performance than the Scion.

Granted from the pictures I've seen they both look beautiful but if the FR-S and BRZ are not sold in sufficient quantities they will be discontinued. Everyone went crazy when the push button start S2000 came out and that didn't pan out to well. There are so many Miata's on the road it is ridiculous.

Only time will tell if people will be willing to fork out the cash for the new BRZ. I think initially the demand will be there but Subaru has already stated that the number of BRZ's will be limited. If the car is going to cost almost $30k or more it needs to have more power and continuing sales to match.

I just don't see the BRZ as it has been spec'ed out by Subaru in it's current configuration to out pace Toyota sales if Subaru doesn't have something better to offer financially vs performance wise.

You can talk about the two cars being light and nimble all you want but if they have the same set-up and the FR-S is cheaper? What are people going to buy?

I'm just saying the BRZ might have a slight problem.
Chris_Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 05:36 PM   #147
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

be careful.

some folks don't like all that logic and common sense around here, if it means sacrificing, or even looking sideways Subaru's new sacred cow.

Some of us have been bringing up the performance level since the engine specs came out, regardless of price... now the price is higher than most thought it would be, also.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 05:57 PM   #148
Stanley
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7374
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Gold Country
Vehicle:
2023 MAGA Hat Model3
grey, or is it gray?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
You can't just add a turbo or a supercharger to a highly tuned, high-compression atmospheric engine, and hope it to work correctly, or not blow-up.
Agreed, and would remind yout that this forum was started by folks wanting to increase the performance of the 2.5RS. A part of that was bolting on low pressure turbo chargers to an atmospheric engine that was never designed for boost. There are definitely differences, but I think an analogy to full circle could be made. Let's just hope the anemic Subayota will sell well enough and long enough for somebody to sell a factory turbo version.
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #149
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Northbridge, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

The price has always been where we thought it would be according to the specs. The sub-$20k price was before anything was really known about the car. You guys were latching on to an unrealistic dream.

Also, the BRZ is not supposed to "out-pace" Toyota sales, which is why Subaru is limiting the numbers of the BRZ. The BRZ is the same as if FR-S came with Premium and Limited trims (which they don't). If someone's looking at an FR-S and thinking, "Man, it would be sweet if they had Navigation, leather seats, etc.," then all they'd have to do is look at Subaru's offering to get all that.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 06:04 PM   #150
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Yeah, well, you know
Vehicle:
that 's, like, your
alternate facts, man.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
Either way (sc or turbo) I hope people who purchased the first na version can add the factory turbo if they want.
The FA20 in the FR-S/BRZ has a 12.5:1 compression ratio... so I'm guessing any bolt-on turbo kits will be as successful as those for the old 2.5RS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The price has always been where we thought it would be according to the specs. The sub-$20k price was before anything was really known about the car. You guys were latching on to an unrealistic dream.
While nobody was still expecting a sub-$20k price since 200hp specs were released.. the FR-S costing a $7500 premium over the 2.0i that's built on for an extra 52hp and 400lbs less (mostly lost by chopping off the useful parts of the car) doesn't sit right.

Plenty of us have been following the development of this car since it was little more than a press release and a strange development mule..

There's been a thread concerning what was considered, by most, to be the upper limit of the potential price..

http://i.imgur.com/K1YRf.jpg

Notice (from the italics) I votes Yes... for a $25,000 MSRP on a BRZ, but 47% of the poll takers voted that they wouldn't pay that much. The BRZ isn't going to be listed at $25,000.

Edit: I forgot to mention that that poll was also for specs of a car that was 200lbs lighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornesoldier View Post
Here are the specs:
FA20 - H-4 FR 2.0L 200hp @ 7000 rpms 151 lb-ft @ 6600 rpms
~2,500lbs RWD 6spd, Rear LSD, NAV


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Lee
Everyone went crazy when the push button start S2000 came out and that didn't pan out to well.
You're referring to the S2000 that had a 10 year run.. right?

Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 03-27-2012 at 06:22 PM.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Cranking, car will start when push started. Luckyduck919 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 3 11-28-2010 02:21 AM
Donde está el estacionamiento para el Subaru? : Rally Catalunya starts March 24! WagonMonster Motorsports 106 04-01-2006 03:04 PM
Don't 'Pooh' yourself, 100 Acre Woods Pro-Rally starts Feb 24! XenoWolf Motorsports 15 02-23-2006 08:58 AM
Todays drift event @ etown w/ Signal Auto will start at 3PM! Fat Tits Tri-State Area Forum 6 09-25-2003 02:18 PM
When do you think the war will start? PhlypSide Off-Topic 27 03-17-2003 11:57 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.