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Old 11-30-2001, 02:46 PM   #26
syntrix
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Quote:
Originally posted by Happy
Syntrix,

I suspect that you have no idea how much water goes through an engine, via the intake, on a simple rainy day. FAR more than a correctly set up WI system. Same goes for cars living in a high RH area.

If you think there's a problem with the expansion of vaporising water in an engine, you must be positively mortified thinking about the expansion of all that air, and fuel going bang in the cylinders

The only associated problems relating to WI, that I'm aware of, are not running a methanol mix in winter, and the WI system freezing up, and like I already asked you, water being used with a VERY high acidity, which more commonly also damages the pump, not the engine.

"enhances ?", I take it that you've not tuned an engine, with, and without WI then

Issues should be debated, that's how we learn,

Happy.
All aquamist systems. You can't be serious about the giving water concentration over a given volume between a foggy day and a squirt with the WI system? There is so much more water when the WI is active than any humid or foggy day LOL


That's great that you are running a WI system, and have tuned it. .... those are questions, hece the ? above.

When was the last time you took your engine apart, and how long have you been running the WI system?

Sure you can push things more, but you are displacing air and fuel and replacing with water. It will reduce knock or detonation so you can squeeze out a % or two...


Like I keep saying on here, it's your car, do what you want to! LOL
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:49 PM   #27
DJWRX
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I don't mean to be picky Happy, but I think methanol has a slightly lower latent heat capacity than water, which is still significantly better than fuel. It burns too, and it still cools very well. You're also right about the pumps usually being the thing to go. You can find pumps that have internals treated for alcohol use. That diaphram pump from Surflow sounds pretty good to me. I am going to see if I can get more info on it. Do you know how much the ERL pumps runs alone?

Tim
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Old 11-30-2001, 03:00 PM   #28
DJWRX
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Syntrix, please elaborate on the damage it causes to internals. It is my car, and I want to know what could happen to it if I used WI. How many engines have you opened up that used WI? What did the parts look like? Please don't just come back and tell me I'll have to rebuild my engine.

The last time I took apart an engine that was run with water injection was my friend's Buick T-Type I mentioned earlier. It was run for 50,000 miles at 500hp or above. Looked pretty clean to me. No pitting of any sort, no rust, it did have really clean oil though. All I'm saying is a properly tuned WI system has many benefits, one of them being that it doesn't eat away at your engine. I want to know what happens to an engine with a poorly designed WI system.

Tim
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Old 11-30-2001, 04:41 PM   #29
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Syntrix,

I ran the WI for about 2 years on the EJ20 STi engine, and as I said in a previous post, I had a very good look when the head gasket went. The engine's still in bits, because I got slightly side tracked with the EJ25 project

If you "just" fit WI, and don't remap the ecu, you will LOSE a little power, 5~10bhp, with 10% water to fuel injected: BUT, remap the fuel, and advance the ignition, and then you'll not only gain more power, but the engine will run safer too.

Something else to concider. We did some testing on a chassis dyno, and found a 20bhp difference running water "on", to water "off". What was actually happening, was that the extra heat induced by the dyno, was sapping power. The WI wasn't "increasing" power, it was reclaiming "lost" power. This works the same on the track, or in hot weather.

Re water through the intake in the rain, or in high humidity, comapred to WI, "serious" VERY. YOU'D BE AMAZED, I was. I can't remember the equation to work out volume of water vs %RH, but I'll try and dig it out.

DJWRX, I'm fairly certain that methanol is better than water for cooling, but I may be wrong.

Try Jackson Racing for prices, I believe they are one of the main US dealers.

Happy.
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Old 11-30-2001, 06:30 PM   #30
DJWRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Happy

DJWRX, I'm fairly certain that methanol is better than water for cooling, but I may be wrong.


Happy.
Specific Heats:

Water: 4.18 (J/g)/deg C
Ethanol: 2.46 (J/g)/deg C
In order to raise the temperature of one gram of water, one degree celsius, you must supply 4.18 Joules of energy.
In order to raise the temperature of one gram of ethanol, one degree celsius, you must supply 2.46 Joules of energy.

This means that each tiny droplet of methanol can actually hold less energy that each tiny droplet of water, before each turns to vapor.

I knew those chem classes would be useful one day.
Tim
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