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Old 03-03-2010, 07:51 AM   #251
ride5000
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as others have said, in a truly parallel arrangement (like this one) either path can contribute a pressure signal to the WGA. when the WGA sees signal, boost is limited.

IF you have arranged your 3 port solenoid such that the pressure signal is VENTED from the WGA when the solenoid is off, AND the solenoid is off (for whatever reason) while the MBC is passing, then the pressure signal contributed from the MBC will be reduced. that may very well prevent the MBC from properly clamping boost.

i do not suggest such an arrangement.

in that case either insure that 1) the solenoid remains energized whenever the MBC will be passing, or 2) change your connection topology to the 3 port so that the WGA is not depressurized while the solenoid is not electrically active.

1 is done with tuning, 2 may be done by simply capping off a port.
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:05 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Ken (the stupid one, not Gilbert), what did I tell you earlier? Google 'path of least resistance'. And let me repeat myself. PLEASE stop posting so damn confidently in technical threads.
^Please do this... you're just causing confusion among people who are still learning.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:21 PM   #253
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So can anyone tell me if I would be able to switch my Grimmspeed EBC setup (post 246) to a hybrid setup (post 243) without my tune having to be adjusted.

Update: I did as stated above and car works perfect. No tuning needed and I can now adjust my boost for alttitude and I now have no overboost problems at higher speeds. Thanks for all the help guys.

Last edited by Murphdog; 03-22-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:51 AM   #254
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Guys,

I am totally new to the hybrid mbc/ebc concept but I am pretty interested. I run a Dom3 XTR with a TiAL 44mm EWG, AVC-R, Hydra and a meth kit (hydramist). Because I run meth I must retain the AVC-R as its integrated into the meth kit for failsafe reasons. There is a relay that kills power to the AVC-R's 3 port solenoid when the meth kit is off or a failure (or some other even that the Hydra did not like) has occurred.

My target boost with the meth on is 26PSI and with the meth off 22PSI. I also do a few track days which I ALWAYS run at waste-gate pressure (1.3bar / 18.85PSI). Ideally I would like to set the MBC at 26PSI and use the AVC-R to create my boost curve on the high boost map. I would also like to be able to limit the car at 22PSI on the low boost map (totally different map in the AVC-R) without adjusting the MBC.

AM I correct in thinking that if I were to setup the hybrid setup that I could retain all the functionality that I currently have while building in a hard limit of 26PSI in the MBC?

I found this diagram online which depicts my exact setup except that I dont have any of the lines in blue or the MBC. If I were to add the MBC exactly as as show in this diagram, will it work correctly? All the other diagrams that I have seen show only a single port connected on the EWG and slightly different plumbing. Thanks!

[pict removed since its wrong]

Last edited by dexterous; 04-29-2010 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:37 PM   #255
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Quote:
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AM I correct in thinking that if I were to setup the hybrid setup that I could retain all the functionality that I currently have while building in a hard limit of 26PSI in the MBC?
No. 100% DC at the electronic solenoid results in unrestricted pressure going to the top port. The only thing regulating boost at that point will be the backpressure in the exhaust manifold. Massive overboost. The MBC is doing nothing since it is causing more restriction than the electronic solenoid.

In short, the method you have will let you a minimum boost level . This is exactly opposite from what you want.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:34 PM   #256
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Ok, thanks. Any chance you have access to a proper diagram?
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:59 PM   #257
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Tee the MBC into the line that goes to the side port, instead of the line that goes to the top port. Then, when the MBC sees more than the boost pressure it's set for, it sends that boost to the side port, which will open the wastegate.

I don't think that the line from port 3 to the inlet is really necessary - capping both ends should be sufficient. But get a second opinion, I don't have Grimmspeed/MAC BCS so there could be some quirk here that I'm not aware of.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:44 AM   #258
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You have a 1.3 bar spring in the wastegate. Ditch the top port entirely. Unless you plan on running more than ~2.6 bar of boost.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:31 PM   #259
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Shek, like this?

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Old 05-04-2010, 05:42 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Shek, like this?

I need to read through the rest of this thread....... but looking at that diagram I can't help but think "what's the point of the MBC here?" IE if it's closed but the EBC is allowing air by then the air will simply flow through the EBC and to the wastegate.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:38 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
I need to read through the rest of this thread....... but looking at that diagram I can't help but think "what's the point of the MBC here?" IE if it's closed but the EBC is allowing air by then the air will simply flow through the EBC and to the wastegate.
That is the intent. For everything but full throttle, the EBC controlls boost. For WOT, the EBC shunts everything to the MBC, so it controls boost then. It works like a champ. My ECU controls boost at everything but WOT, then the MBC takes over and gives spike free control.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:33 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
That is the intent. For everything but full throttle, the EBC controlls boost. For WOT, the EBC shunts everything to the MBC, so it controls boost then. It works like a champ. My ECU controls boost at everything but WOT, then the MBC takes over and gives spike free control.
Ok I got it (I think). So you tell the ECU "hey keep the EBC shut" at WOT so that it goes to the MBC. But at non WOT the EBC is allowed to control it..... this is splendid .
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:29 AM   #263
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exactly.
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:51 AM   #264
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post because I lost this thread....
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:09 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Sorry for the delayed reponse. NASIOC didn't inform me the thread was updated for some reason.

But, yes.
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:05 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Sorry for the delayed reponse. NASIOC didn't inform me the thread was updated for some reason.

But, yes.
The ports in teh picture are correct but not oriented corectly




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Old 05-20-2010, 11:13 AM   #267
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post because I lost this thread....
you know it's a sticky, right?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:22 AM   #268
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Just finished installing this setup with my 18G/EWG/prodrive/hallman evo rx, and its so nice having adjustability via a knob. Took me 5 minutes to tune via ecuflash/romraider modifying the TD tables and WGDC, and a very fun road test with NO KNOCK at 21 psi :P . Very solid boost response, no spikes at all, and my vent is capped not routed to intake. Very nice idea, thanks ride for the great setup. hallman evo rx on ebay is only $139 BTW.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:45 PM   #269
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i retract my previous statement, i'm getting ONLY MBC response and no EBC. I'm using the prodrive EBC and when the WGDC is zero, im still getting boost via the MBC. The prodrive is free flowing at rest and everything is hooked up right like in the pics. Does this work for EWGs? So much for path of least resistance. The pressure would rather go through the MBC than an open EBC?

If i set the WGDC to zero, and turn the MBC up, it still boosts to what the MBC is set to. Adjust the MBC all the way down and it gets down to ~16 psi which also isn't right, i have around 14psi WG pressure. What is going on?
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:31 AM   #270
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remember either system should work "normally" in and of itself.

the solenoid must be connected so that pressure goes from compressor to wastegate "open" side while the coil is unenergized. it doesn't sound like this is the case, as you would not be able to go above wastegate spring pressure if WGDC is 0--and you are.

can you sketch out a topology diagram? in particular, the NO and NC ports on the solenoid, and the connections to the WGA ports.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:51 PM   #271
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I found the problem, i plugged the liittle bleed hole in the WG barb on the MBC and it worked perfectly like it should, WG pressure and all the good stuff....

BUT...........

Now a different problem.... i found out that if you block the bleed hole it works like it should b/c that hole was bleeding pressure from the WG line. BUT................. It will sacrifice boost response in the form of ramping up fast then stopping too short (~1-2psi short of target) and creeping up to its set psi after a few hundred rpms. Very annoying indeed. So either its Full MBC no matter what, or crappy boost peak response. Does anyone have this setup working with an EWG and preferably a prodrive EBCS?
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:14 AM   #272
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again, a detailed topology diagram is what you need to provide in order to get advice.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:27 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasp642 View Post
I found the problem, i plugged the liittle bleed hole in the WG barb on the MBC and it worked perfectly like it should, WG pressure and all the good stuff....

BUT...........

Now a different problem.... i found out that if you block the bleed hole it works like it should b/c that hole was bleeding pressure from the WG line. BUT................. It will sacrifice boost response in the form of ramping up fast then stopping too short (~1-2psi short of target) and creeping up to its set psi after a few hundred rpms. Very annoying indeed. So either its Full MBC no matter what, or crappy boost peak response. Does anyone have this setup working with an EWG and preferably a prodrive EBCS?
I totally hear you. On my Tial EWG, the bottom port (normal I am told) will not hold pressure. Thus that little bleed hole on the MBC acts to raise boost a fair bit, even at 0% WGDC. I struggled with this for weeks.

The good thing is that with an EWG you can get awesome boost response w/o a MBC, and tuning it is sooooo much easier.

I am now sticking with the hybrid MBC type on IWG only.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:03 PM   #274
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im gonna try some tweaking in the setup today, i think i have it solved so we can use EWG with the setup, i'm gonna essentially relocate the bleed hole somewhere else in the setup. I'll give details if it works, it should in theory, and not bleed anything off (like it should) during zero WGDC, and bleed off when the MBC is in charge like it should.
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:58 PM   #275
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Success.......... Relocating the bleed so it only bleeds when ports 1 and 2 are connected, like when the solenoid is energized and the MBC is in control. So now the MBC works like it should and I have part throttle control back b/c its not bleeding off pressure like before with the bleeder hole on the WG side of the MBC.

I know it may sound confusing, but its hooked up just like ride's setup in the first post. Ports 2 and 3 are free flowing at rest, and port 1 is hooked to the bleed hole as in the pic. So when the EBC is on, it completely blocks off flow to through the EBC and connects the WG line to the bleed hole and MBC (connects ports 1 and 2 when energized).

Any questions feel free to ask

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