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Old 06-12-2019, 12:12 PM   #26
Masterauto
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Porsche should but this engine in the Boxter/Cayman and folks might forgive them for putting a 4 banger in an $80K car.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:09 PM   #27
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So buy the 911. Porsche doesnít mind. As for the 4 cylinder Boxster/Cayman performance, itís a corners car. If a 4 banger improves the balance without losing speed Iím all for it. Flat 4 must have some benefit if Porsche passed on developing the proven and cheaper EA888. As the 718 S sits, itís already a set of tires and strip away from being an 11 second car. For 80k you could do worse. The AMG motor would only make the price go up.

Last edited by 4S-TURBO; 06-12-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Porsche should but this engine in the Boxter/Cayman and folks might forgive them for putting a 4 banger in an $80K car.
Iím not sure if putting a different 4-cylinder in the car would make folks forgive Porsche for putting a 4-cylinder engine in an $80k car. Itís not like the Porsche 2.0L is a slouch as it performs better than the outgoing H6.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:14 AM   #29
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Iím not sure if putting a different 4-cylinder in the car would make folks forgive Porsche for putting a 4-cylinder engine in an $80k car. Itís not like the Porsche 2.0L is a slouch as it performs better than the outgoing H6.
It's no 6 either and sales have plummeted. Very different driving experience from 6 to 4 no matter how fast it goes.
Folks don't buy Porsche's for the C02 ratings
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:42 AM   #30
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It's no 6 either and sales have plummeted. Very different driving experience from 6 to 4 no matter how fast it goes.
Folks don't buy Porsche's for the C02 ratings
Sales have plummeted? Not sure where you are getting your sales numbers from as according to these links sales are at worst flat relative to the last decade.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...orsche-cayman/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...rsche-boxster/

If anything you can see that sales for both these models peaked about 15-20 years ago so you can argue sales plummeting is more the course of the segment and nothing to do with the 4-cylinder engine. Convertible sales have been in a perpetual industry decline so I'm not going to pin that on an engine change.

Last edited by heavyD; 06-13-2019 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:28 PM   #31
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I know this thread has been quiet for a while, but I just wanted to post because I recently watched Engineering Explained's video on the M139 engine.


I'm thoroughly impressed with the engineering that AMG has put into the new 416 hp 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo (M139) engine. They've really raised the bar for other manufacturers. The specific output (HP/L) is something that I would have expected from a Honda 4 cylinder (if they still manufactured engines like they did in the '90s/early 2000s). It's exciting to see engineering teams continue to push the envelope with combustion engines like this as the industry is advancing towards automated electric vehicles.

I'll be interested to see how far the aftermarket can push this engine, especially with E85.

New Mercedes-AMG four-cylinder turbo engine
  • Turbocharged 2.0L inline 4 - handbuilt at AMG
  • 416 hp @ 6750 rpm, 369 lb-ft @ 5000 RPM
  • Redline: 7200 rpm
  • Peak Boost: 30.5 psi
  • Displacement: 1991cc (83.0mm bore x 92.0mm stroke)
  • Compression: 9.0:1
  • Specific output: 208.9 HP/L
  • Engine weight: only 353.8 lbs
  • Twin scroll, roller bearing turbocharger w/ electronic wastegate actuator
  • Forged crankshaft, rods & pistons
  • Aluminum closed deck block
  • Nanoslide cylinder coating
  • Larger & baffled oil sump
  • DOHC 16 valve aluminum cylinder head
  • Adjustable intake and exhaust camshafts w/ roller cam followers
  • Camtronic valve timing on the exhaust side (2 camshaft profiles)
  • Larger, hollow-bored, sodium-filled exhaust valves
  • Dual injection - Direct & Port Injection
  • Electric water pump w/ 2 radiators
  • Air/water intercooler w/ additional cooling from the A/C
  • 8 speed dual-clutch auto
  • "Advanced" 4MATIC AWD system with a "Drift" mode
  • Estimated: 0-60 < 3.9 sec, 1/4 mile < 12.3 sec - depending on the "45" chassis

While not really in the same class as the STI, the AMG GLA 45 will likely be comparable in price to the S209 ($60-65k). Too bad it doesn't come with a manual transmission. And for those that love to "hoon", it comes with drift mode like the Focus RS.

The AMG A45 S with this engine reached 0-62mph in 3.9 seconds. The downside is that the exhaust doesn't sound as good on the new one.

A video of the "One Man, One Engine" assembly cart:

Last edited by WRXnick16; 08-19-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:26 PM   #32
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Stupid question but is this AWD or just rear wheel? Just went and built a current gen and with the options I want, it came to $70k. If that number were closer to $60-65k with those options I’d possibly be interested.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:30 PM   #33
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Stupid question but is this AWD or just rear wheel? Just went and built a current gen and with the options I want, it came to $70k. If that number were closer to $60-65k with those options Iíd possibly be interested.
The CLA 45 & GLA 45 have "4MATIC" AWD.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:48 AM   #34
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Walking around Tokyo, I saw a AMG A45 hatch.
God damn that is nice looking. Wish it would come to the US
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:49 AM   #35
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Stupid question but is this AWD or just rear wheel? Just went and built a current gen and with the options I want, it came to $70k. If that number were closer to $60-65k with those options Iíd possibly be interested.


The A35 and A45 are AWD.

But for the same price you could have a C8 that is superior to just about everything less than $125-150K. LOL
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:08 PM   #36
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But for the same price you could have a C8 that is superior to just about everything less than $125-150K. LOL
The C8 is a game changer for the price. There's no denying that. But it's not the answer to everything.

You're comparing an American mid-engine, RWD, V8, 2 seater sports car to a German AWD, turbo 4, 5 door hatchback? They're targeted at entirely different crowds. One is a great weekend, nice weather, track toy. The other is a more refined daily driver that's practical (fits your family, a car seat for your kid, your dog, groceries, etc.) and can drive in rain/snow. Too bad neither are offered with a manual transmission.

The M139 engine is handbuilt and, IMO, a game changer for the turbocharged 4 cylinder world. Yes, it's still a 4 cylinder.. they could just add more cylidners, but the engineering and HP/L is impressive nonetheless. I remember when the Honda Type R engines were once handbuilt and had the highest specific output for their time.. a lot has changed.

Type R K20C1: 306 hp/1996cc = 153.3 HP/L
AMG M139: 416 hp/1991cc = 208.9 HP/L

Last edited by WRXnick16; 08-25-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Type R K20C1: 306 hp/1996cc = 153.3 HP/L
AMG M139: 416 hp/1991cc = 208.9 HP/L
2009 BMW S1000RR: 193hp/999cc = 193HP/L
2019 BMW S1000RR: 205hp/999cc = 205HP/L
2019 Kawasaki Ninja H2R: 300hp/998cc = 301HP/L (supercharged)

HP/L is a dumb metric in a nation that puts no limits on displacement... but this is not a game changer for anyone except people that actually like M-B's FWD-based (and part-time AWD) POSs.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The C8 is a game changer for the price. There's no denying that. But it's not the answer to everything.

You're comparing an American mid-engine, RWD, V8, 2 seater sports car to a German AWD, turbo 4, 5 door hatchback? They're targeted at entirely different crowds. One is a great weekend, nice weather, track toy. The other is a more refined daily driver that's practical (fits your family, a car seat for your kid, your dog, groceries, etc.) and can drive in rain/snow. Too bad neither are offered with a manual transmission.

The M139 engine is handbuilt and, IMO, a game changer for the turbocharged 4 cylinder world. Yes, it's still a 4 cylinder.. they could just add more cylidners, but the engineering and HP/L is impressive nonetheless. I remember when the Honda Type R engines were once handbuilt and had the highest specific output for their time.. a lot has changed.

Type R K20C1: 306 hp/1996cc = 153.3 HP/L
AMG M139: 416 hp/1991cc = 208.9 HP/L


Youíre right on the point about the two cars being totally different categories. I was in my performance mode when I chimed in. Thinking everyone just wants to go fast.

But donít think Iím not impressed with the motor and tech. I own a MB and itís marvelous. I can only imagine how great the drivetrain runs and feels on this car.

That said... still not sure Iíd go for that at its price point.

One last thing: modern automatic transmissions built for sport like an amg would be, are far superior to any manual transmission. Youíd have paddles and the stick to select gears with in certain situations, but old school rowing... thatís a thing of the past. A slow thing of the past...
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:21 PM   #39
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That said... still not sure Iíd go for that at its price point.

One last thing: modern automatic transmissions built for sport like an amg would be, are far superior to any manual transmission. Youíd have paddles and the stick to select gears with in certain situations, but old school rowing... thatís a thing of the past. A slow thing of the past...
Agreed on both the price point & extinction of the manual transmission. The manual transmission is slower regardless of how skilled of a driver you are.. even with fancy launch control & no-lift shifting. Just look at the difference in the 1/4 mile times for the manual vs auto Mustang GT. The stock 10 speed auto can break into the high 11s.

But I'm still not willing to sacrifice the more engaging driving experience that the manual transmission offers
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:39 PM   #40
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Agreed on both the price point & extinction of the manual transmission. The manual transmission is slower regardless of how skilled of a driver you are.. even with fancy launch control & no-lift shifting. Just look at the difference in the 1/4 mile times for the manual vs auto Mustang GT. The stock 10 speed auto can break into the high 11s.



But I'm still not willing to sacrifice the more engaging driving experience that the manual transmission offers


Iím ok with nostalgia as a motivation to have a manual. I love my manual wrx. It is engaging I agree. I just wonder about folks who try to support having a manual for any other reason. Maybe the cost/ ease of maintenance. All I know is Iíve been behind the wheel of some rockets... and I prefer to keep both hands on the wheel.
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