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Old 09-11-2023, 06:40 PM   #1
2.0GDBlobeye
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Default Tuning questions

Hey all, I’ve recently (about a year) purchased an 04 WRX 5MT with rod knock, etc etc, I have an EJ257 I’m building for the car and have been curious to know how people are tuning them. It has TGV deletes and most shops around me won’t tune it because of them.
I ordered a tactrix cable but I’m really not sure how to use it and I’m not going to even attempt without some kind of baseline/know how. I’m up for learning but I’d prefer not to trial an error an ECU and gamble my motor. I do believe it’s a 16 bit ECU (2 wire cam sensor) is this the same as carberry rom? Or is carberry a standalone? I’ve also seen some ECUtek and Haltec stuff floating around but I’m really not 100% on how they work. Is ECUtek a piggyback off of the factory ECU? Can you mix Tactric and ECUTEK?
I’d also like some info on turbo suggestions!
Thanks for taking the time to read, appreciate any response.

TLR What the heck are all the ECU configurations and what’s the best bang for the buck? Also turbo suggestions

(I tried setting up an account on ROMraider to ask as well but I couldn’t figure out how to post lol)

Build list
EJ257 w/ ARP studs, OEM MLS gaskets, BC272 cams, ID1050x, TGV deletes, STI up pipe, CYL 4 cooling mod, KILLERB oil pickup, baffle and HC pan, Tomei 2.5 inlet, NGK 1 step colder plugs (LFR7AIX) AEM 340LPH fuel pump.
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:36 PM   #2
19std
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If you run a brief search for open source, carberry, or similar in the engine management tuning section, you can find a tuner pretty easy.

Then ask them, online tuning available and reasonably priced.

Tthe standalone stuff, haltech etc, i would avoid until you have a reason to implement. OS should be perfectly fine for what you are describing.

Carberry is not a standalone, it is a modified rom for OS.

Turbos, man, just google a power number and flip a coin on rotated vs stock location and just pick a reputable brand name one, garrett, fp, etc.

Romraider is very deadish, but the tuners listed there seem to be responsive if you contact them directly.

Last edited by 19std; 09-11-2023 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19std View Post
If you run a brief search for open source, carberry, or similar in the engine management tuning section, you can find a tuner pretty easy.

Then ask them, online tuning available and reasonably priced.

Tthe standalone stuff, haltech etc, i would avoid until you have a reason to implement. OS should be perfectly fine for what you are describing.

Carberry is not a standalone, it is a modified rom for OS.

Turbos, man, just google a power number and flip a coin on rotated vs stock location and just pick a reputable brand name one, garrett, fp, etc.

Romraider is very deadish, but the tuners listed there seem to be responsive if you contact them directly.
Awesome, I really appreciate it I’ll check it out, didn’t realize that the turbos weren’t completely different from each so thanks for making me aware, cheers.
As far as RomRaider I’m hoping to just get some info on what the steps are to begin tuning Subarus, I’m a bit tech savvy but I’m completely lost when it comes to tuning, hoping to get my toes wet but not jump in head first. I’d really like to learn at least to hopefully tweak my tune on my own and really dial it in nice, I do plan on doing some track use and I’d like it to be a solid running car. I’m not going to put down a lot of power just because of the stock bottom end and the 5MT, I’ve been reading those transmissions really only hold up to 300-350hp so I’d like to aim around there, but I digress.
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Old 09-11-2023, 09:28 PM   #4
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Man i would highly recomend you go ahead and do a 6mt swap while your at it. Was not aware you had a 5mt.

But this is a lot of cost so i get it, and then more time lol.

Also i have really oversimplified turbos, i really meant do som i mean a lot of reading, but you are really limited by your 5 mt, but do some reading and figure out a turbo that might work for later when you can 6mt.

As for the tuning, read everything you can find on rr, there is a lot of "from the ground up" tuning stuff there. But yeah i would nt tune my first engine, too much to go wrong, but never hurts to learn the process yourself, there is a really good thread on rr, ill link it here.
https://www.romraider.com/forum/view...hp?f=33&t=5320

Theres a way more detailed one on ther can't find it now.

Last edited by 19std; 09-11-2023 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 09-12-2023, 12:23 AM   #5
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Man i would highly recomend you go ahead and do a 6mt swap while your at it. Was not aware you had a 5mt.

But this is a lot of cost so i get it, and then more time lol.

Also i have really oversimplified turbos, i really meant do som i mean a lot of reading, but you are really limited by your 5 mt, but do some reading and figure out a turbo that might work for later when you can 6mt.

As for the tuning, read everything you can find on rr, there is a lot of "from the ground up" tuning stuff there. But yeah i would nt tune my first engine, too much to go wrong, but never hurts to learn the process yourself, there is a really good thread on rr, ill link it here.
https://www.romraider.com/forum/view...hp?f=33&t=5320

Theres a way more detailed one on ther can't find it now.
Thanks man, appreciate your help, but yea I’d love to put a 6 speed in it, for now I’m gonna keep it down and see how I like it, if the trans goes it’s 6 speed time, hopefully I’ll turn it up just a bit 375-4 ish. That’s really my target and I’d like to think I have a good platform to work from as far as mods goes. That’s the game plan at least. I hear about the turbos, I also have a 6.0 so turbos get funky with that too, bunch of options/variants etc.

I’ll end up doing a deep dive on romraider and cram info on a random night soon. more than likely gonna reach out and have someone double check my tune/rom once I figure it out, just as a precaution.

I’ll def keep this thread updated. Thanks again!
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Old 09-12-2023, 06:51 AM   #6
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Based on your WHP goal, you'll want a Blouch 2.5XT-R or any turbo around 50lb/min if you are doing 93 octane.

For tuning, this requires that you research. You live in MD, but MD is a big ass state with many tuners. If you live near, say Baltimore, there is IAG and Jermaine Tuning so you should call them and ask for what's best rather than trying to jam a solution down your tuner's throat. The MAIC subforum here has a sticky with most of the dynos/tuners in MD as a reference for you.
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Old 09-12-2023, 10:30 AM   #7
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I hear the jamming a turbo down my tuners throat for sure, I’d much prefer to have something that they’re happy with but i don’t have a tuner just yet lol, I might just try and make tune it myself with some friends of friends who are tuners.

Funny you said Baltimore, that’s almost exactly where I’m at, I spoke to IAG and Andrewtech, IAG doesn’t do dynoing around here anymore, Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment

Power goal for now is around 325-375
End result (after 6MT swap) 375-425 +/-30hp, I was gandering at the TR TD06-18g just hoping I’m not going to be underperforming the turbo with low numbers . I’ve read that rotated might be a better idea for my setup but I’m not 100% versed in that category. Gonna do some more scanning on the forums tonight and really get a grasp on all of that hopefully.
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Old 09-12-2023, 01:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post
Thanks man, appreciate your help, but yea I’d love to put a 6 speed in it, for now I’m gonna keep it down and see how I like it, if the trans goes it’s 6 speed time, hopefully I’ll turn it up just a bit 375-4 ish. That’s really my target and I’d like to think I have a good platform to work from as far as mods goes. That’s the game plan at least. I hear about the turbos, I also have a 6.0 so turbos get funky with that too, bunch of options/variants etc.

I’ll end up doing a deep dive on romraider and cram info on a random night soon. more than likely gonna reach out and have someone double check my tune/rom once I figure it out, just as a precaution.

I’ll def keep this thread updated. Thanks again!
350-400 on a 5 speed is gonna cook ur clutch and blow ur gear teeth off
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post
I hear the jamming a turbo down my tuners throat for sure, I’d much prefer to have something that they’re happy with but i don’t have a tuner just yet lol, I might just try and make tune it myself with some friends of friends who are tuners.

Funny you said Baltimore, that’s almost exactly where I’m at, I spoke to IAG and Andrewtech, IAG doesn’t do dynoing around here anymore, Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment

Power goal for now is around 325-375
End result (after 6MT swap) 375-425 +/-30hp, I was gandering at the TR TD06-18g just hoping I’m not going to be underperforming the turbo with low numbers . I’ve read that rotated might be a better idea for my setup but I’m not 100% versed in that category. Gonna do some more scanning on the forums tonight and really get a grasp on all of that hopefully.
18G is a solid turbo

Get the 18GXT from Blouch if you go that route. Their custom aero is quite performant.

And you can get the turbine in 8 or 10cm (get the 10 for your 2.5L)

Id recommend getting it coated and use a turbo blanket
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Old 09-12-2023, 03:17 PM   #9
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Agreed 100%, 350-400 is after I swap to a 6 speed, I’m aiming for around 325-350 with my 5MT and an upgraded clutch (any suggestions?)

Will the 10CM be laggy? I’d like a pretty quick spool and a smooth power band, i still plan on DD the car so I don’t want it to be too aggressive for regular street stuff.

Any insight as to why blouch is the turbo most people recommend? I understand they’re quality built parts and tried and true. Why the opposition of TR or FP or the GT series turbos. Just for my curiosity.
Thanks for the replies btw guys, you’re helping me out more than you can image +1
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Old 09-12-2023, 03:30 PM   #10
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As long as its name brand and repitable within the subi community, you really cant go wrong with the big names, blouch garret fp, just dont get anything thats "a killer deal", and "just the same as..."

I dont have an excel spreadsheet to prove it, but i would guess bloush is just on par with the other names listed, no proof, but you know wht i mean.
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Old 09-12-2023, 04:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post
Agreed 100%, 350-400 is after I swap to a 6 speed, I’m aiming for around 325-350 with my 5MT and an upgraded clutch (any suggestions?)



Will the 10CM be laggy? I’d like a pretty quick spool and a smooth power band, i still plan on DD the car so I don’t want it to be too aggressive for regular street stuff.



Any insight as to why blouch is the turbo most people recommend? I understand they’re quality built parts and tried and true. Why the opposition of TR or FP or the GT series turbos. Just for my curiosity.

Thanks for the replies btw guys, you’re helping me out more than you can image +1
On a 2.5 the 10cm should spool identically and make more topend. The 8cm will make less power without spooling much faster.

For AR 8 is .57 and 10 is .73 if you know AR.

You should get close to 350-400 with an 18G 10cm on ethanol if you choose to go that route.

You'll want a standalone ECU for that imo, flex fuel on the stock ECU with carberry/merpmod is janky at best.

Blouch has the best aero for the best price with the best service, reputation and warranty.

Blouch uses Garrett CHRAs with their own custom compressor and turbine.
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Old 09-13-2023, 12:29 PM   #12
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[quote=2.0GDBlobeye;46878580]
" ... Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment ..."

Sorry, it's been a few years ... is tuning now an issue?
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Old 09-13-2023, 12:40 PM   #13
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[quote=k mier;46878898]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post
" ... Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment ..."

Sorry, it's been a few years ... is tuning now an issue?
Emissions equipment has always been a flow restriction so to speak, the gummint just trying to collect on it now, hence the the shift to decentralized tuning solutions.
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Old 09-13-2023, 12:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post

" ... Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment ..."



Sorry, it's been a few years ... is tuning now an issue?
Yes tuners wont tune without tgvs and cats for the most part on street cars because the EPA has been levying huge fines and shutting shops down
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Old 09-13-2023, 01:47 PM   #15
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[quote=k mier;46878898]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post
" ... Andrewtech doesn’t want to tune because of my TGV deletes and emissions equipment ..."

Sorry, it's been a few years ... is tuning now an issue?
Sadly, also their pricing is pretty steep imo, 750 for PDI, 250 for single map and I believe an additional 150-200hr for dyno time.
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Old 09-13-2023, 03:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.0GDBlobeye View Post

Sadly, also their pricing is pretty steep imo, 750 for PDI, 250 for single map and I believe an additional 150-200hr for dyno time.
Gotta pay to play

Tuning cars well has never been cheap
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Old 09-13-2023, 04:34 PM   #17
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Not to hijack the thread, but is the issue the actual lack of emissions equipment (TGVs, cats etc.) or the fact that it could throw a code and then the code would have to be artificially suppressed by the tuner?

All my bugeyes have always been straight piped and they dont throw codes, even without any cats. My current bugeye has TGV deletes but that was done prior to my ownership, so I dont know if that caused a CEL or not. Im looking to get my car tuned and some other upgrades done, but I dont want to run into a situation where the tuner will require me to reinstall TGVs or anything like that. Im on a standalone Link ECU if that matters.
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Old 09-13-2023, 04:43 PM   #18
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No i think it's relevant discussion, how do you like your link? Why did you pick it over haltech, motec etc?

Man if you are already standalone, you got no issues. You are already motorsport spec. Most of us have not made that jump yet, and with OS so cheap and effective for most stuff before ethanol, probably will not ever get into standalone.
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Old 09-13-2023, 04:48 PM   #19
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Not to hijack the thread, but is the issue the actual lack of emissions equipment (TGVs, cats etc.) or the fact that it could throw a code and then the code would have to be artificially suppressed by the tuner?

All my bugeyes have always been straight piped and they dont throw codes, even without any cats. My current bugeye has TGV deletes but that was done prior to my ownership, so I dont know if that caused a CEL or not. Im looking to get my car tuned and some other upgrades done, but I dont want to run into a situation where the tuner will require me to reinstall TGVs or anything like that. Im on a standalone Link ECU if that matters.
The link doesn't have the same check engine lights as the standard ECU. They are more like fault codes.

As long as your tuner will perform the work requested, and you don't have yearly emissions checks you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 09-13-2023, 05:36 PM   #20
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No i think it's relevant discussion, how do you like your link? Why did you pick it over haltech, motec etc?

Man if you are already standalone, you got no issues. You are already motorsport spec. Most of us have not made that jump yet, and with OS so cheap and effective for most stuff before ethanol, probably will not ever get into standalone.

To be honest the car already came with it installed, so I couldnt really tell you why it was picked over a haltech or motec etc. The build was done about 20 years ago, maybe it was all thats available? The car is fully built ( EJ257 with all forged carillo parts, high flow heads with oversized valves and GSC cams, built PPG trans, Tein coilovers on TE37s etc..) and only makes about 250whp lol, im hoping the ECU isnt the limiting factor here :P



Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
The link doesn't have the same check engine lights as the standard ECU. They are more like fault codes.

As long as your tuner will perform the work requested, and you don't have yearly emissions checks you have nothing to worry about.

Thats great to hear, my last bugeye that I had was pre "green speed" (I think thats what its called) so I never worried about it. I think my car is emissions exempt in my state after 20 years, so looks like im good to go
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Old 09-13-2023, 05:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoblikat View Post
To be honest the car already came with it installed, so I couldnt really tell you why it was picked over a haltech or motec etc. The build was done about 20 years ago, maybe it was all thats available? The car is fully built ( EJ257 with all forged carillo parts, high flow heads with oversized valves and GSC cams, built PPG trans, Tein coilovers on TE37s etc..) and only makes about 250whp lol, im hoping the ECU isnt the limiting factor here






Thats great to hear, my last bugeye that I had was pre "green speed" (I think thats what its called) so I never worried about it. I think my car is emissions exempt in my state after 20 years, so looks like im good to go
Pre green speed refers only to Cobb products

If this was a build from a while ago it is likely the link ECU you have installed is very primitive and cannot perform many functions of the newer ECUs

So you will definitely be limited by the old ECU
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Old 09-13-2023, 07:56 PM   #22
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Gotta pay to play

Tuning cars well has never been cheap
100%, you get what you pay for!

No two cars are the same, they all have small differences even if they’re exactly the same. They all respond different to tunes etc, etc. Now, I personally trust dynos more than a computer, but it’s really my first time tuning. I’ve dabbled here and there with a few other applications so I wasn’t sure what the avg going rate for dyno tuning was. Only recently was made aware of all that goes into it and how much prep is required to have an accurate and solid tune and car.
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Old 09-13-2023, 07:58 PM   #23
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100%, you get what you pay for!



No two cars are the same, they all have small differences even if they’re exactly the same. They all respond different to tunes etc, etc. Now, I personally trust dynos more than a computer, but it’s really my first time tuning. I’ve dabbled here and there with a few other applications so I wasn’t sure what the avg going rate for dyno tuning was. Only recently was made aware of all that goes into it and how much prep is required to have an accurate and solid tune and car.
Definitely

**** adds up very fast
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Old 09-13-2023, 08:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Smoblikat View Post
To be honest the car already came with it installed, so I couldnt really tell you why it was picked over a haltech or motec etc. The build was done about 20 years ago, maybe it was all thats available? The car is fully built ( EJ257 with all forged carillo parts, high flow heads with oversized valves and GSC cams, built PPG trans, Tein coilovers on TE37s etc..) and only makes about 250whp lol, im hoping the ECU isnt the limiting factor here :P






Thats great to hear, my last bugeye that I had was pre "green speed" (I think thats what its called) so I never worried about it. I think my car is emissions exempt in my state after 20 years, so looks like im good to go
Besides for the “dinosaur ECU” how did u like it? I’m not sure if you’ve owned a Subaru before this one but overall were there any major issues with it having a different ECU? Any noticeable problems or concerns that came up?

I’ve been seriously debating going stand-alone but for me it seems like a daunting task. Again, completely blind when it comes to standalones and how you’d even go about that but figured I’d ask.
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Old 09-13-2023, 08:05 PM   #25
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Definitely

**** adds up very fast
Yeah my wallet is screaming at me, but it’s all part of the game and I love this game for some reason. lol
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