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Old 05-16-2011, 11:19 PM   #51
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Isn't this the currency used on teh super secret "deep web"? Hidden wiki and such, where you can order drugs and hire contract killers? :tinfoilhat:
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:52 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryfastskier
How do I use this to get rich?
Rent a GPU farm.
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:24 AM   #53
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Rent a GPU farm.
Or use real money to buy bitcoins and hold on to them for a while and hope the price goes up.
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Physics Junkie View Post
Rent a GPU farm.
Is that like hijacking the computer lab at the community college?
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:50 AM   #55
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so what ive gathered from the video.....

5-10 years to create 50 coins, to a value ~ 250 dollars?

....worthless. so anyone who wants coins now better start working, or if youre lucky and "developed" the bitcoin just HAS them....what is this communist bull****

and...doesnt seem like you can withdraw you own coins...so they are only good for the use online crap....uselesss

Last edited by cha86; 05-17-2011 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:16 AM   #56
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Okay... I went to Wiki to learn about this and it's already talking over my head. Same with this thread. Can someone n00b me out on what a Bitcoin even IS?

My guess: Is it a digital currency that passes P2P without any regulations from banks and governments? Thus you live in the "Bitcoin world", buy REAL things from other Bitcoin "sellers", who then take your "fake" Bitcoin "money" to buy things themselves in the Bitcoin marketplace? Am I getting that right? I don't need to know where they come from, just what they are.

In other words, it's a new form of currency that the buyers/sellers accept as being real?
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:31 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Spheris View Post
Okay... I went to Wiki to learn about this and it's already talking over my head. Same with this thread. Can someone n00b me out on what a Bitcoin even IS?

My guess: Is it a digital currency that passes P2P without any regulations from banks and governments? Thus you live in the "Bitcoin world", buy REAL things from other Bitcoin "sellers", who then take your "fake" Bitcoin "money" to buy things themselves in the Bitcoin marketplace? Am I getting that right? I don't need to know where they come from, just what they are.

In other words, it's a new form of currency that the buyers/sellers accept as being real?
From what little I've read so far, this. There is also a "stock market" per-se, such as the forex market for bitcoins.

You can either use real $$ to buy bitcoins or mine for them, then setup an account on the market and transfer your bitcoins there and sell them for the current market asking price, which is currently $7.78 per bitcoin. Then transfer your real dollars out to a payout service such as paypal or whatever the site supports.

They got "mining pools" where a block is split up amongst several users who all solve individual portions of the block and get an equal payout based on the work performed, so that way you don't need to wait however long it would of took you to solve a complete block yourself before you get any bitcoins.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:39 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Spheris View Post
Okay... I went to Wiki to learn about this and it's already talking over my head. Same with this thread. Can someone n00b me out on what a Bitcoin even IS?
http://www.weusecoins.com/


Quote:
My guess: Is it a digital currency that passes P2P without any regulations from banks and governments? Thus you live in the "Bitcoin world", buy REAL things from other Bitcoin "sellers", who then take your "fake" Bitcoin "money" to buy things themselves in the Bitcoin marketplace? Am I getting that right? I don't need to know where they come from, just what they are.
To a first approximation, yes. It has other intrinsic values that make it a good currency (in some ways, better than traditional currencies).
Quote:
In other words, it's a new form of currency that the buyers/sellers accept as being real?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cha86 View Post
so what ive gathered from the video.....

5-10 years to create 50 coins, to a value ~ 250 dollars?

....worthless. so anyone who wants coins now better start working, or if youre lucky and "developed" the bitcoin just HAS them....what is this communist bull****
That info is wrong. Those statistics apply only if you are mining using the default Bitcoin client, which is depracated and will be removed soon. Generally miners use dedicated GPUs for mining. Depending on the quality of hardware you have, you can make between 0.5-10 BC per day (depending on a lot of factors, including cost of power and access to high end hardware).

Quote:
and...doesnt seem like you can withdraw you own coins...so they are only good for the use online crap....uselesss
You can trade BC for anything else at mtgox.com.

For realtime graphs on BC exchange rates, check out:
www.bitcoincharts.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by sic View Post
Isn't this the currency used on teh super secret "deep web"? Hidden wiki and such, where you can order drugs and hire contract killers? :tinfoilhat:
There is at least one online drug dealer taking Bitcoins as payment. I won't link to it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl View Post
This is a pyramid scheme.
I wanted to point out this is a very possible outcome of this whole exercise. If everyone at some point decides these have no value, only the people who cashed out first would make money on this. Bitcoin either succeeds because people agree collectively it's useful, or it dies an ugly death. I give it a 50/50 chance either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infox View Post
So I still don't get how these bitcoins have real world value. How can 1 bitcoin be worth $7 USD for something that has no intrinsic value? From what I've seen on the bitcoin site is only some odd "shops" accept these bitcoins for some odd useless product, if these have no real world value then where does the $7 per bitcoin come into play?
It's true that there are limited places to spend right now. This is changing though. There are some players active in Asia and Africa who are going to be using Bitcoins as a means of micropayments. It should be an interesting day once those people become part of the economy.

Right now speculation is driving most of the price movement. The common understanding is that owning Bitcoins is basically an investment in it's future potential as a secure currency.
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:27 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheris View Post
Okay... I went to Wiki to learn about this and it's already talking over my head. Same with this thread. Can someone n00b me out on what a Bitcoin even IS?

My guess: Is it a digital currency that passes P2P without any regulations from banks and governments? Thus you live in the "Bitcoin world", buy REAL things from other Bitcoin "sellers", who then take your "fake" Bitcoin "money" to buy things themselves in the Bitcoin marketplace? Am I getting that right? I don't need to know where they come from, just what they are.

In other words, it's a new form of currency that the buyers/sellers accept as being real?
That's exactly it . . and because there is no government or bank guaranteeing it your chance of getting screwed at some point is 100%.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:31 AM   #60
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I don't get it...especially the mining part. And why are they not based on an actual current currency? Having common folk trying to determine if it is worth it to buy something for 3 bitcoins or buy it on Amazon for $10.

So far, it looks like the article in the OP is just hype or conspiracy theory crap.
It reads like dihydrogen monoxide warnings
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:52 AM   #61
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so, has anyone generated any coins yet? been running the client 24hrs now on what I think is a decent box - core i7/16GB/ATI48502GB and nada
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:09 AM   #62
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I'm watching the YouTube.

It's.

I don't know what to say. I'm a smart guy, a programmer, and from a family of investment bankers. I know stuff. This is bending my brain around.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:27 AM   #63
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Silverpike...did this start as a project from a guy at MIT?
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:39 AM   #64
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So they said the algorithm will only allow some 20 million bitcoins to be generated... ever. Thats one coin to share between 500 people in the world today.

So I'd be mega rich if this were the global currency and I had like... six of them.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #65
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It seems like an amusing idea but would not really last any bit if just for the reason that rogue mentioned.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:08 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by kinkinhood View Post
It seems like an amusing idea but would not really last any bit if just for the reason that rogue mentioned.
And I don't really see a way to trade fractions of a coin, since one coin is a distinct atomic unit. So right there... this is... I dunno. Stupid? I'm going with stupid.

Private/public key encryption (which this looks like a bastardization of) is very hard for the average person to understand anyway. Throw in something about P2P and algorithms and buzzwords like global currency and fiat and there's just no way that most people will be able to grasp what this is about. Not understanding, some will then assume it must be brilliant and valuable and will want to buy in.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:08 AM   #67
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There is fractional ownership. These aren't physical coins, remember?

What you guys are seeing as a limitation will actually safeguard currency users against devaluation through printing more currency. That problem seems to be too tempting and results in the inevitable downfall of all prior fiat currency.

-*
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:10 AM   #68
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I think that's what they're counting on. People "buying in" on the idea being novel and hip, which is really the only way to make the system remotely valid since it's completely arbitrary.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:14 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Star*Child View Post
There is fractional ownership. These aren't physical coins, remember?
Do you get punched in the face a lot? Because I want to punch you in the face. Right now.

Thanks, ****wit. We totally didn't realize these aren't physical coins.

Here's my bitcoin. 6489106915061.

Take half of it. Go on, show me how this is done. Beyond me telling you that you have half and remembering it. Now go spend your half. How's that work, you tell me to give your half to someone else?

There's no control in this scenario for fractional ownership that I can see. Admittedly, I've only know about this concept for a few hours.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:14 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Child View Post
There is fractional ownership. These aren't physical coins, remember?

What you guys are seeing as a limitation will actually safeguard currency users against devaluation through printing more currency. That problem seems to be too tempting and results in the inevitable downfall of all prior fiat currency.

-*
So I can have .347 of coin and download it onto a USB drive?
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:15 AM   #71
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So they said the algorithm will only allow some 20 million bitcoins to be generated... ever.
When there isn't 'enough' dollars the fed and other banks are able to inject more into the system thus devaluing all other dollars. Bitcoins could be divided into smaller fractional units forever.

One problem I see with the limited amount of available bitcoins is interest. If you charge interest on a limited currency eventually a few individuals will be able to amass most of that currency so long as they don't spend it, which is why usury was a sin at one point in our history.

With government currency that problem is largely solved by banks by creating more currency through debt to outpace interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infox View Post
So I still don't get how these bitcoins have real world value. How can 1 bitcoin be worth $7 USD for something that has no intrinsic value? From what I've seen on the bitcoin site is only some odd "shops" accept these bitcoins for some odd useless product, if these have no real world value then where does the $7 per bitcoin come into play?
It's based on the currency exchange trading. It's what people are actually paying to buy bitcoins. I have not figured out why anyone would buy bitcoins, other than for speculation though. Really the dollar and fiat currency doesn't have an intrinsic value either, it only works because it's acceptance is forced through law.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:17 AM   #72
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I would like to trade 17 bitcoins for a wizard hat and Birkenstocks. PM me if you're interested.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by severe View Post
When there isn't 'enough' dollars the fed and other banks are able to inject more into the system thus devaluing all other dollars. Bitcoins could be divided into smaller fractional units forever.

One problem I see with the limited amount of available bitcoins is interest. If you charge interest on a limited currency eventually a few individuals will be able to amass most of that currency so long as they don't spend it, which is why usury was a sin at one point in our history.

With government currency that problem is largely solved by banks by creating more currency through debt to outpace interest.

It's based on the currency exchange trading. It's what people are actually paying to buy bitcoins. I have not figured out why anyone would buy bitcoins, other than for speculation though. Really the dollar and fiat currency doesn't have an intrinsic value either, it only works because it's acceptance is forced through law.
How do you divide a bitcoin into fractions? I'm still waiting to see this part.

It looks like right now bitcoins are just an intermediary for other currencies. Similar to paypal or any other electronic transaction, the bitcoins are only of value because someone is willing to pay you for them later. If that interest were to dry up (which would take nothing more than people changing their minds or becoming bored) then they'd lose value.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:22 AM   #74
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Reading up, there seems to be some system for fractions, though I admit I'm not sure how that works.

But there are other problems. Deflation.

http://brianreiter.org/2011/02/21/bi...atally-flawed/
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Star*Child View Post
There is fractional ownership. These aren't physical coins, remember?

What you guys are seeing as a limitation will actually safeguard currency users against devaluation through printing more currency. That problem seems to be too tempting and results in the inevitable downfall of all prior fiat currency.

-*
What's the difference between:

A government saying 'we won't print any more money' then printing more money.

And the Bitcoin system saying, 'there are limits on how much currency is in circulation' then changing that limit? Or even worse, a person finding a way to duplicate bitcoins and insert them into the closed economy?
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