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Old 05-21-2019, 11:42 PM   #751
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:45 AM   #752
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I'm comfortable with the truth being that Toyota would have a lot more to lose by lying than they would gain. Incentives are a good predictor of behavior.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:54 PM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Surely they are smart enough to know that using ringers will end up badly for them. This isnít the 80s where dynamometer access was poor and it isnít a Ferrari where they really control who ends up with them.

Then again, we are living in the post-truth world. As long as you donít admit being incorrect or fault and keep slightly changing the message, you can apparently get away with lying.
Honestly, I'm more concerned about variations in dynos / operators. It's the first one to hit a dyno, who knows, maybe with more we will find that it needs to be in a specific gear or you get wonky readings.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:25 PM   #754
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Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'll reserve my yay's until more (production, not press) cars have hit dynos.
I get the skepticism as look at Honda's Nurburgring time with a prototype Civic Type R to which stock cars have not come remotely close to matching but I think most people realize the ring times are somewhat fictional when it comes to actual vehicles that roll off the assembly line. It would be something different to provide the press souped-up cars to perform initial road tests. That would be kind of dirty and deceptive. That said I wouldn't be surprised if the press cars were broken in so when magazines perform tests on brand new production cars that the times may be slightly slower.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:48 PM   #755
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Tires can be purchased and fitted immediately for track driving. So can brake pads and fluid. Unless there is an option box to check, every car rolling off an assembly line comes fitted with all conditions wearable items. This is where rags and manus numbers should be taken as a spectrum guideline for a vehicle’s performance potential rather than defending one number over another.

If it doesn’t take much more than a pair of stickier tires to put a stock Supra into the 11’s, yeah I can believe that torque number.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:12 PM   #756
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Just learned the Supra’s chassis is stiffer than the LFA’s carbon mono.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:31 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
I get the skepticism as look at Honda's Nurburgring time with a prototype Civic Type R to which stock cars have not come remotely close to matching but I think most people realize the ring times are somewhat fictional when it comes to actual vehicles that roll off the assembly line. It would be something different to provide the press souped-up cars to perform initial road tests. That would be kind of dirty and deceptive. That said I wouldn't be surprised if the press cars were broken in so when magazines perform tests on brand new production cars that the times may be slightly slower.
They are most definitely pre broken in. They are also hand selected off the line, rigorously checked over and made perfect. Some have had special attention to the build of the motor, and suspension ensuring that the stock parts and build are PERFECT.

In the past some automakers also had what was known as "press package" cars, which are options packages that aren't advertised to the public. Usually the press package was just tires that were far better than the standard tires and maybe the dampers were higher quality. This would make the cars perform better under journalist testing.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:17 PM   #758
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Great example of the latter would be the Lincoln MKZ, I believe, which was sent to the magazines with Pilot Super Sports on it.

Found it: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-car/index.htm
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:14 PM   #759
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Great example of the latter would be the Lincoln MKZ, I believe, which was sent to the magazines with Pilot Super Sports on it.

Found it: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-car/index.htm
While I agree it was shady of Ford I kind of had to laugh at this part;

Quote:
The fitted Michelin Pilot Super Sport summer tires (245/40ZR19) are more typically found on super-expensive exotica like the BMW M5 and Ferrari 599, not $45,000 luxury sedans.
Maybe they confused the tires with Sport Cup 2's as the PSS is available on plenty of vehicles in the $45k price range?
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Great example of the latter would be the Lincoln MKZ, I believe, which was sent to the magazines with Pilot Super Sports on it.

Found it: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-car/index.htm
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
While I agree it was shady of Ford I kind of had to laugh at this part;

Maybe they confused the tires with Sport Cup 2's as the PSS is available on plenty of vehicles in the $45k price range?
According to the article, the Pilot Super Sports are part of a factory optional package for the MKZ that is available to customers. It's no different when Ford sends the Focus RS to the media with the optional Sport Cup 2 tires to get the best numbers. If the MKZ test car didn't officially have this package and just had the tire upgrade on a lower trim, then I can see this as shady.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:09 PM   #761
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According to the article, the Pilot Super Sports are part of a factory optional package for the MKZ that is available to customers. It's no different when Ford sends the Focus RS to the media with the optional Sport Cup 2 tires to get the best numbers. If the MKZ test car didn't officially have this package and just had the tire upgrade on a lower trim, then I can see this as shady.
I glossed over the article and missed that so I go back on my comment as I don't see anything wrong with supplying a test car that has options the consumer can purchase. CR is critical in that it was a likely a low take rate option but I can't fault any manufacturer for putting their best foot forward when supplying reviewers with test cars and it's certainly not a "trick" as CR is insinuating. IMO that's kind of a petty article after giving it a proper read.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:40 PM   #762
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Hey everyone! I heard they're going to make a new Supra!!! MKIV
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:47 PM   #763
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:54 AM   #764
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Yuk.. that face. The side and rear look okay. It's like noticing a pretty girl from the back with nice hair, nice back, etc then you go over to say hi to her face and she's fully ugly. I would take a M2 with MT over this car any day.. M2's are pretty ugly too.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:22 PM   #765
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Yuk.. that face. The side and rear look okay. It's like noticing a pretty girl from the back with nice hair, nice back, etc then you go over to say hi to her face and she's fully ugly. I would take a M2 with MT over this car any day.. M2's are pretty ugly too.
the scenario you are describing is "butterface" as in 'everything looks good, butterface.'

I actually like the way the Supra looks, especially in the pull-me-over colors, polarizing designs will do that though. I give the new supra an 8/10 on the over the top civic type R design scale (the civic type R somehow scored an 11 on a 10 point scale).
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:53 PM   #766
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^ Haha! Yeah, butterface!!

Being an old school j-car fanatic I'm trying to like the new Supra.. no MT and that face is a big hurdle to open my wallet for over $50K.
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Old 05-27-2019, 03:02 PM   #767
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^ Haha! Yeah, butterface!!

Being an old school j-car fanatic I'm trying to like the new Supra.. no MT and that face is a big hurdle to open my wallet for over $50K.
No manual is the deal breaker for me, well that, and, my wife informed me that dropping 50k on a 2 seat toy is a bad decision both financially and maritally.
Honestly though, if I'm getting a "fun" car (that costs more than a used NB Miata or a drop top Karmann Ghia) it's got to be 2+2, and I want a drop top - chassis rigidity be damned; If I can't haul the wife and kid while hauling @$$ it's not worth my time right now.

If I got a smoking deal on a GT350 coupe however....
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:56 AM   #768
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No manual is the deal breaker for me, well that, and, my wife informed me that dropping 50k on a 2 seat toy is a bad decision both financially and maritally.
Honestly though, if I'm getting a "fun" car (that costs more than a used NB Miata or a drop top Karmann Ghia) it's got to be 2+2, and I want a drop top - chassis rigidity be damned; If I can't haul the wife and kid while hauling @$$ it's not worth my time right now.

If I got a smoking deal on a GT350 coupe however....
2+2 vert? Man thatís a Blu-hair car like a mafk! Some old retired lady with the top down heading to the country club to plan tennis with the rest of the retirees. Iím sure you can find a Toyota Solara for cheap
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:30 PM   #769
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No manual is the deal breaker for me, well that, and, my wife informed me that dropping 50k on a 2 seat toy is a bad decision both financially and maritally.
Honestly though, if I'm getting a "fun" car (that costs more than a used NB Miata or a drop top Karmann Ghia) it's got to be 2+2, and I want a drop top - chassis rigidity be damned; If I can't haul the wife and kid while hauling @$$ it's not worth my time right now.

If I got a smoking deal on a GT350 coupe however....
Yeah, I hear ya about the no manual part. And yeah, I'd much prefer the Shelby's design over the Supra. And I'm not even a Ford guy.

I think I'm going to get a new 2019+ ND (MX5) and mod it a little bit to my liking before considering the Supra if I'm going to get a RWD. I'm keeping my other cars so if I want fast acceleration, I'd just pull out my other cars. I was looking at the M2 as well, but they're so ugly. I like the M4's styling but it's too big.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:57 PM   #770
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That ND MX5 is a sweetheart. I'll miss mine, but there's no sense owning two cars when I drive less than 3000 miles/year.

I'm really liking the back-end view of this Supra. Straight on. what a rump!
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:09 PM   #771
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:54 PM   #772
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Motor looks stout. A lot of headache with maintenance down the road though. A lot of things "hidden" deep in the motor that will need replacing. I hope that oil/coolant block is a beefy design. Wouldn't want that stuff mixing down the road.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:07 PM   #773
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #774
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Big $$$ 4 bangers.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:10 PM   #775
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