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Old 09-17-2019, 11:02 PM   #26
frodooftheshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
FWIW, I had a modified '16 WRX with flex fuel pushing ~330 whp. While it was a fast car, I didn't find the driving experience as satisfying as my stock STI. However, the WRX certainly got better fuel economy for my long commute

They tuned the WRX's throttle mapping well to trick drivers into believing that it's faster than it is. It's very deceptive since most people don't push a brand new car at WOT through several gears on a test drive. Then you're really disappointed after the break-in period and realize that the power really falls off up top on the stock tune.

I think the STI will give you more of the driving feels that you're searching for compared to the Miata and Integra. It gives you that mechanical, old school experience. The Civic Type R will be faster, handle better, and get better fuel economy. Both will have rattles and cheap paint. I think you'll be happy with the performance of both on the street unless you plan to track the car competitively in stock form.

On the other hand, a Golf R offers a more refined driving experience, but won't provide the sporty driving feel that you're searching for. Basically, you can't have both

I'd look at it as a spectrum going from the most engaging and least comfortable to the least engaging but most refined..
STI
Civic Type R
Golf R

I'd probably wait to see what Subaru does with the STI for 2021 if I was in your shoes. Hopefully they keep the existing drivetrain and pair it to a better tuned FA engine.
You so hit on the head with the bolded paragraph - it's totally tuned in such a way that you're first though is "DAMN! and it only gets better from here!" But the reality is at 4K it totally hits a wall and then *sometimes* picks back up.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:42 PM   #27
Scorpius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
By Spring 2020 I will have my STI, WRX Limited, Golf-R, and a new Civic-R in my garage. I am currently upgrading my garage.

Why.. because these are the last of the MT sport compacts, I think, and I want to keep them while I'm still alive.
I don't feel so bad owning a 2016 and 2019 STI concurrently.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
I don't feel so bad owning a 2016 and 2019 STI concurrently.
You are one of the lucky.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:52 AM   #29
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodooftheshire View Post
I currently have a 2019 WRX series gray. It’s been an okay car, but in comparison to my previous car, a 2017 Mazda MX5 (6 speed), I would say that I’ve been less than impressed with its inconsistent engine tuning and lack luster gear box. About 20 % of the time I go WOT I will get a nice, smooth pull to 6K RPM. The rest of the time it’s a giant question mark. Sometimes it will pull pretty hard, cut power at 4K RPM, and then rip again to 5,500 RPM. It’s all over the board.
I agree that the throttle mapping is to blame, but I think it's a little more complex than just enhancing throttle response in the lower rpm ranges at the expense of high rpm output.

Are you 100% certain that every time the cut happens you're all the way to WOT at the pedal and not lifting even a little?

I've noticed the same thing, this sometimes-it-cuts-power-sometimes-it-doesn't, and I still can't say that none of it is on me. I do know that I'm unwilling to drive engines into their rev limiters especially in the lower gears - cars didn't used to have rev limiters, so it was all on the driver to avoid floating the valves into the pistons.


Quote:
The handling has been overall pretty nice . . .
Agreed for the most part. I've found that the VDC doesn't like the combination of much throttle + moderately hard cornering at least in 2nd gear. The frustrating power chop in this situation can be remedied by turning VDC off.


STi vs WRX
Quote:
Much better transmission
Better in what way/for what purpose? How much better? I realize that the STi gearing is slightly different from the WRX's (the STi's is a little shorter in 2 through 6), but the WRX ratios seem to have been chosen well enough for a sporty but daily driven car.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 09-18-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:54 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
STi vs WRX

Better in what way/for what purpose? How much better? I realize that the STi gearing is slightly different from the WRX's (the STi's is a little shorter in 2 through 6), but the WRX ratios seem to have been chosen well enough for a sporty but daily driven car.
A few pros of the STI transmission:
  • Shorter gear ratios which are nice for spirited and daily driving (city)
  • LSD - good for performance and bad weather
  • DCCD to control center differential torque distribution - good for performance & bad weather
  • Rod shifted - provides a better, heavier, more mechanical shifter feel
  • Stronger - less important if you're staying stock, but some refer to it as "bullet-proof"
The only thing that I miss about the WRX transmission is the 6th gear ratio for highway driving.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:22 AM   #31
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I am in the same situation as you as my lease in my current car is up in March of 2020 and I too am considering a CTR or STI. No dealers in NJ will let me drive a CTR as well but I am leaning towards the STI mainly because of the ridiculous (in my opinion) looks of the CTR. The 2020 CTR is supposedly going to come in a model with a lower trunk wing and possibly more reserved looks so lets see how they look in the next month or two. Good luck!
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:34 PM   #32
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There's been a few Civics spotted with the low profile spoiler.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/29609/...tyle-rear-wing







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Old 09-18-2019, 12:57 PM   #33
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WRX gearing is too tall for my taste but it’s acceptable for daily driving for the most part.

The factory short shifter is a joke on the WRX however. Needs shifter stop regardless.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:59 PM   #34
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It's your money. Buy a CTR now. Maybe in a month, you'll like the 20 STi better. Just trade for that.

Not a fan of the CTR. Especially the back. To me it looks like someone went nuts with a J.C. Whitney catalog and then bolted on Back to the Future Delorean time machine exhausts to the bumper. I'm sure it drives great. Do they have the same gas diluted oil problems that the Earth Dreams engine in the CR-V has?
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:25 PM   #35
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
A few pros of the STI transmission:
  • Shorter gear ratios which are nice for spirited and daily driving (city)
  • LSD - good for performance and bad weather
  • DCCD to control center differential torque distribution - good for performance & bad weather
  • Rod shifted - provides a better, heavier, more mechanical shifter feel
  • Stronger - less important if you're staying stock, but some refer to it as "bullet-proof"
The only thing that I miss about the WRX transmission is the 6th gear ratio for highway driving.
Thanks for the list.

It's probably something that OP (and anybody else, for that matter) needs to evaluate with respect to their particular circumstances. As one example, for somebody like me, being retired, bad weather capability beyond what good tires and a basic AWD can provide doesn't weigh as heavily as it might for somebody with a gotta-get-there-on-time daily commute. If the weather is that bad, I can stay home without burning vacation time or a sick day).

I'll have to read up some more on DCCD . . . but for now let's just say I'm uneasy about handing most any vehicle dynamics control decision over to a computer and somebody else's programming.


Norm
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:53 PM   #36
MAL TRIO
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Default WRX over Type R

My best friend has a type R compared to my WRX, we've always competed from day one. When it came to power gains he had a lot more reliability issues to his car than I did mine. Within 12,000 miles he over heated his car going down PCH. A week later it just continued with it's downgrade. Not saying my Subaru is perfect, probably my biggest issue has just been carbon build up. I've put 112,000 miles on my car in the last 3 years. Yes I just drive that much, but the reliability and the quickness has stayed. He appreciated his type R for the first 19,000 miles before he switched to a 2019 STI recently. He said switching from AWD to FWD was back to AWD made him realize the difference and how much more it stuck to the ground and was a great car for the canyons as well as daily.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:48 PM   #37
WRXnick16
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Throttle House posted a video today comparing the Supra vs Mustang GT PP1. The Mustang won the drag race. The Supra edged out the Mustang by a tenth of a second on their road course.

Why is this relevant? Because their leader board shows just how impressive the CTR is against its competitors if lap times is why you're buying the car. Of course this is a tight road course that appeals to the CTR's handling. Add some longer straights and the CTR wouldn't fare as well.

The cars they've tested on their road course:
Camaro SS 1LE 1:11.58
Mustang GT PP2 1:12.77
BMW M2 Competition 1:13.53
Tesla Model 3 Performance 1:13.95
Honda Civic Type R 1:14.81
Audi RS3 1:14.89
Toyota Supra 1:15.06
Mustang GT PP1 1:15.18
Hyundai Veloster N 1:18.62
VW Golf R 1:20.0

The STI still gets my vote for the driving experience category. My guess is that it would fall around the 1:18-1:20 period on this list.

It just depends on what's most important to you.
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Old 09-19-2019, 01:49 PM   #38
F1EA
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For me, the all weather capability is non-negotiable. Both in terms of performance and safety.

Track times and drag races are not very important in my view, but they are relevant to single out overall performance, which IS important even if not vital. Thing is... it's pretty easy to improve those on most of the cars in that list.

The way I see it, the Civic Type R is a cheap toy. The Supra an expensive toy. I need neither; but both are cool cars.

Last edited by F1EA; 09-20-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodooftheshire View Post
For the most part this is my primary transportation for my business and if I was going to do it I would probably do EGR/TGV deletes and get an e-tune from Mike Botti - so I would be easily spending 2K and in the end I still have the rattles, not great transmission, and then in a warranty situation things are then questionable. I just want a really good stock car - I'm disappointing I didn't push the WRX in my test drive.
Why is EGR/TGR deletes your first go to?

Intake, Downpipe, Exhaust, e-Tune and call it a day if you want to be conservative.

TBH I have 210K on my WRX, because I commute in it 2.5 hours everyday, and it's been e-Tuned for the last eight years. The mountain of mods I have on the thing just make it more enjoyable to drive.
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:04 PM   #40
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurftastic View Post
Why is EGR/TGR deletes your first go to?

Intake, Downpipe, Exhaust, e-Tune and call it a day if you want to be conservative.

TBH I have 210K on my WRX, because I commute in it 2.5 hours everyday, and it's been e-Tuned for the last eight years. The mountain of mods I have on the thing just make it more enjoyable to drive.
Intake and exhaust are mostly noise makers and offer little power gain. I found that the intake on my '16 WRX actually made for a very annoying highway commute. A flex fuel kit is the biggest bang for the buck for the FA WRX.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:57 AM   #41
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iirc theres a youtube video of specifically the sti vs ctr, the end result of the individual doing the tests described the ctr as the better track car but the sti being the better daily. personally I love my sti, the gas mileage is horrible but I feel it makes the drive worth it and I enjoy going to and from work...not necessarily the work itself lol but the commute is worth it...have done several 240sx's, FC, CRX, MR2 1st and 2nd gen, Civic, Corollas, Firebird just to name a few, all left me wanting for something, the sti satisfies imo all but one or two things I would like to do, basically drive a hypercar for a while lol
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:39 PM   #42
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Iím sorry, but the Civic Type-R is one ugly car. I donít care how good it performs....I wouldnít be caught dead in that thing. All Type-Rís in the past were fantastic looking cars....but this new one is ugly asf! Itís as if Pontiac Aztek f**ked a new Honda Accord, the offspring is the Civic Type-R. Just my opinion.
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by xX_STI_Xx View Post
Iím sorry, but the Civic Type-R is one ugly car. I donít care how good it performs....I wouldnít be caught dead in that thing. All Type-Rís in the past were fantastic looking cars....but this new one is ugly asf!
You're not alone.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:06 PM   #44
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If you're fixated on track times, Type R. Otherwise, I'd go for STI. G'luck
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:21 PM   #45
WRXnick16
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We won't be seeing the OP here anymore... he went with the CTR and got a pretty good deal.

https://www.civicx.com/threads/need-...r.41360/page-5

Quote:
Originally Posted by frodooftheshire;
Just want to let everyone know - I went CTR and it officially got loaded in Missouri and it's on the way to Oregon. I paid $36,680 including all dealer frees (but not registration in Oregon) and covered transpiration to Oregon is $1,700 through sweet logistics. Considering the closest Type R near me in PMM was going for 42,500 before dealer fees I think I did quite well.
He's already looking for 18" replacement wheels.

Some of the R owners are former STI owners and preferred the sound, steering feel, and transmission in the STI.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-27-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 09-27-2019, 10:00 PM   #46
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This thread has been a fun read and so has the one over on civicx. It will probably help a lot of people trying to make the same decision. If I were in the OP shoes, I'd have hung onto the WRX until the next gen comes out, but I can understand his excitement about a new car. I too may be looking at a CTR if the next gen disappoints, but I have to admit it would be hard to leave the subi family after driving them for the past 14 years, some I'm crossing my fingers it will be a home run!
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