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Old 11-29-2018, 10:09 AM   #126
SirBrass
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Originally Posted by oichan View Post
I would assume that the sensor is located in the front bumper. Even in the cold, engine temps are nominal which would affect the ambeint temp reading going by your assumed sensor placement...?
True. Though it has to be getting affected by radiated heat somehow if it's more accurate at startup in the cold than after driving it for a bit. That, or the sensor is so bad that it behaves non-linearly as it warms up.

Edit: I just googled this in general and came upon a discussion about this with regards to an outback (which had a really bad external temp sensor: reading 70F when it was clearly 101F outside). Someone made a good point that once driving, the sensor should be reading pretty accurately, which is the exact opposite of what we're seeing. Also, it was mentioned that in subarus, the sensor is usually located low behind the front bumper.

That made me realize: where does Subaru place the FA20DIT twinscroll? Low and in front. Perhaps it's radiating enough to affect the temp sensor. With that open of an area, most of the radiated heat is sucked away into the atmosphere, but turbo turbines run hot and could easily be warming up the general area several degrees above actual ambient once they've gotten warmed up.

Can't know for sure until we can look at a service manual for the 2015-2017's and the 2018+s and see just where that probe is mounted.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:22 AM   #127
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Not sure if my reply was missed a page back, but it does sit in the lower front bumper next to the horn. I checked the service manual.

Its also its a bit warmer on roads than in a driveway -- all the cars let out a lot of heat. I see the temps go up when on busy roads and drop a bit on less populated streets. Also, when I start up in my insulated garage then roll on the driveway I see it drop. I think its more or less accurate.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:27 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Not sure if my reply was missed a page back, but it does sit in the lower front bumper next to the horn. I checked the service manual.

Its also its a bit warmer on roads than in a driveway -- all the cars let out a lot of heat. I see the temps go up when on busy roads and drop a bit on less populated streets. Also, when I start up in my insulated garage then roll on the driveway I see it drop. I think its more or less accurate.
It's more than the normal variance, though. With my past subarus the ETG was more or less accurate once I got going. This one, though, I just can't trust at all. Sometimes its bang on, and other times in the exact same conditions, it seems wildly off.

If I could, I'd just shut it off or relocate it to a more accurate area to read from.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:37 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by SirBrass View Post
It's more than the normal variance, though. With my past subarus the ETG was more or less accurate once I got going. This one, though, I just can't trust at all. Sometimes its bang on, and other times in the exact same conditions, it seems wildly off.

If I could, I'd just shut it off or relocate it to a more accurate area to read from.
I dunno... shelter it too much and you really might get your engine heat, expose it too much and you'll get it dropping too much with air passing over as you drive. I think its current position is ok...

You could solder some wire extensions and place it somewhere else and see what you get, if you're willing to mess around with it. It sits to the right of the horn. Maybe move it closer to the fog light area? haha
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:46 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Not sure if my reply was missed a page back, but it does sit in the lower front bumper next to the horn. I checked the service manual.

Its also its a bit warmer on roads than in a driveway -- all the cars let out a lot of heat. I see the temps go up when on busy roads and drop a bit on less populated streets. Also, when I start up in my insulated garage then roll on the driveway I see it drop. I think its more or less accurate.
I saw that, thanks.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:10 PM   #131
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So the last few days it's been in the teen-F's and was getting some annoying rattles coming from the steering column over rougher roads. I decided to try adjusting the telescoping while driving over this rural and open rough 25mph road to see whether adjusting the telescoping position would help.

I was able to find a spot in the telescoping range where the noise completely disappeared, and a decent driving position. Very happy that the noise is gone! Now I am back to zero rattles on my WRX.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:40 AM   #132
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not a super fan of the short throw on the STI. might put the stock throw back in it .
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:38 AM   #133
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WRX:

1. clutch throw too long, too heavy, pedal too high, engagement too grabby

2. throttle too sensitive, rev hang, flat spot in output about 4500 rpm, sometimes glitchy during rapid on off throttle transitions

STI:

1. Guzzles gas (18 mpg BEST so far)

2. Seat needs lumbar support

3. Trunk should have some kind of soft open feature or substantial full-open stop cushion as weight from wing can result in excessively forceful stop when trunk swings up too fast.

4. Model Reputation for piston failure disconcerting.

I think the STI is simply a brilliant car to drive fast, especially when there is low traction. It seems to do everything well.

Neither my WRX or STI had any QC problems. Design problems yes, but not QC that I have discovered. No rattles, etc.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:32 AM   #134
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1. Guzzles gas (18 mpg BEST so far)
^this is your style man, you must either have nothing but city driving or just drive full on it non stop
I can get 23-24 real world commute if I'm just driving casually and not having any fun.
25-26 highway if I go 65 or under and no needless passing
21-22 driving hard

Never been in the teens, don't even think I could do that on the street if I tried
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:37 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
^this is your style man, you must either have nothing but city driving or just drive full on it non stop
I can get 23-24 real world commute if I'm just driving casually and not having any fun.
25-26 highway if I go 65 or under and no needless passing
21-22 driving hard

Never been in the teens, don't even think I could do that on the street if I tried
Real world highway commute numbers (and keeping an eye on the instantaneous mpg numbers to teach myself to be more economical on gas) with a stock 13 STI on ACN91, I was averaging 16-19 mpg.

Maybe it was that I was driving on piss gas. That's the problem in the Southwest, unfortunately. You're stuck fueling up with CA's diluted crap.

Still, STI could have benefited massively from a DP and protune as far as MPG numbers went. The IWSTI guys were swearing up and down that if I just went and got tuned, I'd see a marked improvement in MPG and daily drivability. Instead I fell in love with how the BRZ handled, and decided to go underwater to get out of the STI and into a BRZ. I still do wonder if I would have been mollified enough with a protune and DP install to have kept the STI.

The world will never know.

The numbers you're giving there for your STI are what I get out of my stock WRX, and I can wring good fuel economy out of cars.

When driving out '12 Outback 2.5i w/ CVT, I manage 26-27 MPG on a route that is entirely uphill for the return trip. My wife averages about 22 in the same vehicle. I know how to feather an engine.

It's not so much about speed as about engine loading. On long highway commute sections in the WRX, I set my cruise at 70 and leave the car in 5th. My instant mpg meter settles out at around 30-40mpg when it isn't adjusting for elevation increases at that setting. It's no better if holding at 55 or 60.

Last edited by SirBrass; 12-17-2018 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:09 AM   #136
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On long highway commute sections in the WRX, I set my cruise at 70 and leave the car in 5th. My instant mpg meter settles out at around 30-40mpg when it isn't adjusting for elevation increases at that setting. It's no better if holding at 55 or 60.
Wouldn't you get better gas mileage by setting the cruise control and leaving it in 6th?
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:10 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
^this is your style man, you must either have nothing but city driving or just drive full on it non stop
I can get 23-24 real world commute if I'm just driving casually and not having any fun.
25-26 highway if I go 65 or under and no needless passing
21-22 driving hard

Never been in the teens, don't even think I could do that on the street if I tried
I am sure that is a big part. I only have been driving it for fun, no commuting, etc. I also have a stock Fiesta ST w/ 1.6 turbo. Super fun car by the way and pretty cheap after incentives and negotiating. Anyhow I have been getting low 20s when driving it similarly. I live in hilly area.

Last edited by welding rod; 12-18-2018 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:16 PM   #138
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Wouldn't you get better gas mileage by setting the cruise control and leaving it in 6th?
Nope, less. Engine has to work more to keep speed up when elevation changes. When cruising, engine is still unloaded in 5th, but has some more mechanical advantage available if needed to maintain speed and not work as hard doing so.

6th is okay, but not an improvement over 5th unless you're cruising at 80 or above.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:04 PM   #139
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^less throttle does not equate to better fuel economy when it's simply at higher revs.

It's one thing if you are using 6th way out of the engines realistic operating range, like dogging it at 1500 rpm's or something 70% throttle
But saying it's not an improvement under 80? Man, this 6th gear has gotta be the highest ratio 6th ever made. At 80 the thing turns 3200 rpm's.
I wish it was just a 5 speed if 6th is going to be that steep anyway.

If you aren't accelerating you are simply matching output to the load 1:1
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:43 PM   #140
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^less throttle does not equate to better fuel economy when it's simply at higher revs.

It's one thing if you are using 6th way out of the engines realistic operating range, like dogging it at 1500 rpm's or something 70% throttle
But saying it's not an improvement under 80? Man, this 6th gear has gotta be the highest ratio 6th ever made. At 80 the thing turns 3200 rpm's.
I wish it was just a 5 speed if 6th is going to be that steep anyway.

If you aren't accelerating you are simply matching output to the load 1:1
I'm basing my assertions on the read instant mpg from the ECU. 6th gear requires more open throttle. The decrease in RPMs (thus ignition cycles per minute) doesn't overcome the increased fueling necessary to generate enough torque to maintain speed below 80 to make it more efficient than 5th gear.

I've tried both. 6th gear and cruise at 70 nets about the same mpg as 5th and 70 at cruise.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:13 PM   #141
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Yep, it’s mostly about the load. I don’t cruise under 2000 rpm unless I’m going down a slight decline. .
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:48 PM   #142
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Yep, itís mostly about the load. I donít cruise under 2000 rpm unless Iím going down a slight decline. .
Car seems to work the least to maintain speed in cruise control if RPM is between 2.5k & 3k. Above 3k and its working too hard. Below 2.5k or 2k, and it doesn't have enough mechanical advantage from the gearing to maintainin speed.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:04 AM   #143
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Car seems to work the least to maintain speed in cruise control if RPM is between 2.5k & 3k. Above 3k and its working too hard. Below 2.5k or 2k, and it doesn't have enough mechanical advantage from the gearing to maintainin speed.
Your location has a lot to do with this, it must be pretty hilly near you. It takes very, very little power to maintain highway speeds on level ground. You'd likely get better mileage by leaving it in 6th whenever you can and downshifting if needed for hills. I've also found that using cruise control isn't the best way to get good mileage, cars seem to try too hard to maintain speed up hills. If you're really trying to get max mpg I think it's best to let the speed drop a bit on smaller inclines (and gain it back on the downhill). I've spent some time hypermiling lol.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:03 AM   #144
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Your location has a lot to do with this, it must be pretty hilly near you. It takes very, very little power to maintain highway speeds on level ground. You'd likely get better mileage by leaving it in 6th whenever you can and downshifting if needed for hills. I've also found that using cruise control isn't the best way to get good mileage, cars seem to try too hard to maintain speed up hills. If you're really trying to get max mpg I think it's best to let the speed drop a bit on smaller inclines (and gain it back on the downhill). I've spent some time hypermiling lol.
Look at my location, yes it is very hilly. As is the drive up to and from Buffalo (a trip I make once a week). Constant low grade uphills and downhills.

And I already know about best way to get max mpg. Did it a LOT in AZ and CA. There, cruise control was not the best way to max the MPG. Where I am now in a WRX instead of my BRZ, this is better.

The point is that fuel usage is primarily a function of engine loading, and RPM is a much lower contributor (injection cycles per minute is much less of a factor than how much fuel is injected per injection duty cycle). RPM itself can require higher loading if you're too high in the band, but it's primarily engine load. Find where and how your engine is working easiest for the conditions and hold it (modern CC does this very well, actually, as the CC programming I've seen uses the least amount of load necessary to maintain speed).

With CC on, 5th gear, 70mph, I average about 27+ mpg for that stretch of road (combined mpg lowers the figure, which pollutes the numbers we're talking about here). That's at or higher than Subaru's rated highway fuel economy for the WRX. It does not increase appreciably in 6th gear unless I'm traveling at 80mph (in which case, I get a few mpg better). I've done both on my long weekly commutes. I stick to 5th at 70 in order to not attract cops (In NYS they can be absolute jerks, and I just spent $700 evading getting a ticket on my license: $300 for the lawyer, and $400 that the county officially asked for in lieu of a traffic ticket conviction. It's not like it is in CA and AZ where if you have a clean record you can take a defensive driving course instead of paying the ticket and have the ticket dismissed. Had that happen once. It cost about $185 when all was said and done).

6th gear in the WRX is so tall as to almost be useless.

Last edited by SirBrass; 12-18-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:22 AM   #145
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Is the BRZ gearing totally different or something?

If I were going 70 in 5th I'd be turning at least 3500 rpm's, if not closer to 4k

In 6th it's 2800 rpm's, more than enough to maintain speed with minimal throttle
Half the time it's 5psi vacuum, and at most a few pounds boost if a huge hill comes up
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:58 AM   #146
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Is the BRZ gearing totally different or something?

If I were going 70 in 5th I'd be turning at least 3500 rpm's, if not closer to 4k

In 6th it's 2800 rpm's, more than enough to maintain speed with minimal throttle
Half the time it's 5psi vacuum, and at most a few pounds boost if a huge hill comes up
BRZ gearing is short, and 2017+s got even shorter gearing so that when you upshifted at redline, the next gear wouldn't put you right back into the torque dip. Now, when you upshift at redline, you're put just above the torque dip, so you can keep pulling.

In the BRZ, if I was in CC, I was usually at max speed on what the system would hold at (iirc, 90 mph), and I absolutely was in 6th. That was b/c I was driving from CA to AZ or vice versa when dating my girlfriend (now my wife). CC wouldn't kick in if I was above 90mph. I could only hold that speed for so long before I encountered other traffic on the I-10 W to CA and had to slow down to match speed, b/c I wasn't able to pass. In my 14 BRZ, 6th was more akin to the WRX's 5th. Maybe a tad taller. In the WRX, for normal highway speeds, I'm often shifting between 3rd (for when traffic slows below 50), 4th, and 5th. In the BRZ, I was often shifting between 4th, 5th, and 6th for highway cruising depending on traffic. 3rd was too short. The gearing was entirely different. Closest gear set to the BRZ is the STIs. Both are close ratio.

Last edited by SirBrass; 12-18-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:54 PM   #147
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Been sitting in the 2019 sti with recaros, and noticed there is a rock hard section where lumbar support should be that really hurts my back. Does it break in and soften? It's right in the lower center part of the seatback
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:38 PM   #148
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BRZ gearing is short, and 2017+s got even shorter gearing so that when you upshifted at redline, the next gear wouldn't put you right back into the torque dip. Now, when you upshift at redline, you're put just above the torque dip, so you can keep pulling.
yeah just tested my STI in 5th at 70 and it's a solid 3700-3800 rpm's
way too high to cruise on the highway IMO
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:46 PM   #149
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As of today - My only complaint is that the Harmon Kardon system has lost my FM presets twice already (246 miles total) but somehow kept the XM presets.

Oh - yeah - That rev hang is annoying to have to drive/shift around.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:19 PM   #150
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Anyone figure this out? I complained to my dealer that it was consistently 4-6 degrees off. He said the spec was +/- 10F which is ridiculous because every Honda Acura Toyota Mazda I have owned has been spot on or +/- 2 degrees

So they replaced it and it is now 6 to 11 degrees off! Anyone as fussy as I am?

Quote:
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I pay attention to weather reports before I head out to know that. That, and what my tires are telling me before I really pay attention to the external temperature. It's more of a "that ain't right" annoyance my brain keeps flagging when I do a quick eye scan over my MFD while driving when I know darn well from visual observation of conditions that it isn't any blasted 34*F outside. Not when it's snowing and accumulating outside on the roads and cars, and I can feel my winter tires cutting through patches of snow as I cross freeway lanes. I know darn well that it's at least 30 or less outside + windchill.

This makes me think that the ETG (external, not exhaust) probe is probably located just in front of the external vents by the windshield, so it's getting exposed to engine bay heat radiating upwards which is offsetting actual external condition readings.

Maybe if that's the case, it's more of an indication of external temps around the windshield. So, more of an indication of when you're going to need to preventatively turn on front defroster to keep away cold-induced fogging. :shrug:
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