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Old 04-27-2021, 08:24 AM   #1
240whpWRX
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Default How far to go with WRX?

Hey all

I have just had my WRX tuned recently to 250whp on a stock reflash.

Apart from that, I have only done 3 gauges installed and put an STI spoiler/scoop on.

All up I have spent:
$5,700 on the car
$675 on STI Spoiler and STI Scoop (Painted)
$120 on Walbro Fuel Pump
$1,000 on 3 gauges installed
$1,000 on a custom tune.

So that is roughly $9,000 all up.

I really want an STI as I have a new goal of around 350 - 400whp and a WRX wont get me there, but I am not quite in a financial position to get one atm but I will.

For now though, I really want to get a nice upgraded exhaust (catback) for the car and the Blitz is by far my favourite.

At what point am I wasting time pouring money into a WRX? I know a lot would have considered tuning a waste for a WRX but it is so nice now compared to stock and I'll probably have the car for at least the next year or two.

SHould I get an exhaust or wait and save my money for an STI as I have seen some V7s going for around 11 - 14k and that is not far off what I have spent on car.

The exhaust would cost me around $700 to buy new as I cannot seem to find second hand ones.

Cheers!
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Old 04-27-2021, 08:48 AM   #2
snow_bound26
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Where are you from? We didn't have the v7 STi in the states.

As for money, that's all on you. You either love the car and want to put money into it or you have your eyes set on something else and it doesn't make sense to.

What I'd say is how much would it cost to get your goals done with your current car vs how much is the average cat of an STi? Are you concerned about cornering ability or just straight line speed? Have you owned a car with the amount of power you say you want? It's a lot different than you may think.

I bring these things up because you can turn a GD WRX into whatever you want and you're starting with a cheaper car so it's less money overall. When you start tuning these it's a crap shoot because you have to do a proper mod path and have a very good tuner otherwise either car could blow up with a shotty tune. And that's more likely to happen with cheaper parts. If you need a loan to get the STi, do you really want to mod it and take the chance of having the loan and killing the car?

Where I live an STi is $7000-$12000 more for the same year as compared to a WRX from 2004-2014. That's a huge consideration. I was able to build a GD wagon to where I'm mostly happy with it and overall probably cost me $7000-$10000 less including purchase price.
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Old 04-27-2021, 08:50 AM   #3
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There are 2 answers and both are completely valid.

1: There is no point where the money is wasted because the mods make you happy and you're keeping the car till it has more than Unabomber's WRX (I think he's near 300k miles).

2: You wasted all of your money from the start. If you wanted significantly more power, you should have saved your money and when you had enough, traded the WRX for an STi. When the STi becomes not enough, save more money for a GT-R or 718 Cayman GT4.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:23 AM   #4
240whpWRX
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Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
Where are you from? We didn't have the v7 STi in the states.

As for money, that's all on you. You either love the car and want to put money into it or you have your eyes set on something else and it doesn't make sense to.

What I'd say is how much would it cost to get your goals done with your current car vs how much is the average cat of an STi? Are you concerned about cornering ability or just straight line speed? Have you owned a car with the amount of power you say you want? It's a lot different than you may think.

I bring these things up because you can turn a GD WRX into whatever you want and you're starting with a cheaper car so it's less money overall. When you start tuning these it's a crap shoot because you have to do a proper mod path and have a very good tuner otherwise either car could blow up with a shotty tune. And that's more likely to happen with cheaper parts. If you need a loan to get the STi, do you really want to mod it and take the chance of having the loan and killing the car?

Where I live an STi is $7000-$12000 more for the same year as compared to a WRX from 2004-2014. That's a huge consideration. I was able to build a GD wagon to where I'm mostly happy with it and overall probably cost me $7000-$10000 less including purchase price.

Sorry I am from NZ, I have another account but I am at different location and the other account is not letting me in (will sort later), so used this spare one I had.

That is why V7 STIs are on the table hehe.

Also, the prices I gave were converted to USD for your guys ease.

The average cost of STIs are going up. A year ago in NZ I could have bought a V7 easily for 14 - 16k and a V8 for 20k.

Now, the V8 are like 30k+ and Version 7s have mostly hit around 20k. There are a few left for around 15k but all the new imports are now hitting even 25k which is crazy!

By the time I can afford one, I reckon V7 will be like 30k.

But right now, I could get one for 15 - 20k.

I am interested in cornering etc as I want to take it to track days. I have not owned a car with that much power and I read the 400whp section and 300 - 350whp might be more of what I am after not 400whp.

I want an STI because of so many factors but the biggest is the gearbox.

Also, I had a very good tuner who did a full custom tune and dyno. No shelf tunes or anything crap like that.

My current WRX is kept reasonable at 302bhp (250whp), because I don't want to risk blowing it up and pushing far too much power, so I brought it up from 247bhp to 302.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 240whpWRX View Post
Sorry I am from NZ, I have another account but I am at different location and the other account is not letting me in (will sort later), so used this spare one I had.

That is why V7 STIs are on the table hehe.

Also, the prices I gave were converted to USD for your guys ease.

The average cost of STIs are going up. A year ago in NZ I could have bought a V7 easily for 14 - 16k and a V8 for 20k.

Now, the V8 are like 30k+ and Version 7s have mostly hit around 20k. There are a few left for around 15k but all the new imports are now hitting even 25k which is crazy!

By the time I can afford one, I reckon V7 will be like 30k.

But right now, I could get one for 15 - 20k.

I am interested in cornering etc as I want to take it to track days. I have not owned a car with that much power and I read the 400whp section and 300 - 350whp might be more of what I am after not 400whp.

I want an STI because of so many factors but the biggest is the gearbox.

Also, I had a very good tuner who did a full custom tune and dyno. No shelf tunes or anything crap like that.

My current WRX is kept reasonable at 302bhp (250whp), because I don't want to risk blowing it up and pushing far too much power, so I brought it up from 247bhp to 302.
If you want the STI, save up and buy an STI. Bigger brakes, better trans, EJ207. Its just better.

If its an older STI with a 5 speed be a little more weary of it but if you find a 6 Speed STI, sell your WRX and buy it if your goal long term is to have the car and build it. The 6 speed alone is worth it.

A 6MT speed swap into a WRX would literally cost more than the cost of your car.

Take it from a guy who has spent wayyyy too much time and money on a WRX.

I probably should have bought an STI but hey, its fun to be unique.

But if you don't want an STI and you want to build a WRX, do it.

But if your goal long term is more serious in terms of power, it may make sense to be realistic with your goals and save up for an STI.

And STIs will only get MORE expensive as time goes on.

Oh and with full bolt-ons you'll totally be able to make 350-400 hp on your CURRENT WRX motor. It won't be WHP but you will certainly make ~350 horsepower at the crank if you snag a VF turbo, injectors, pump, exhaust and a tune.
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:42 AM   #6
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OP, you definitely have more access to some things that we don't here in the US as easily. How much does a 207 cost in NZ? They range from $3000-$6000 in the US w/o trans. Once again it really comes down to how you go about getting to the car you want. The 205 w/AVCS (I think yours has that) is good for around 350whp/wtq with a really good tune. I ran a 205 w/AVCS and a VF34 (just a hair under 300whp/wtq) for a couple years. Really fun setup for street and auto x. Just ran out of steam too fast on track days.

$20-$30k for a v7 STi is a substantial amount of money. You guys had the better engine than us but otherwise when talking about doing track days I lean more toward starting with less and building up so you address the things that need to be addressed rather than "fix" something that isn't actually broken so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
If you want the STI, save up and buy an STI. Bigger brakes, better trans, EJ207. Its just better.

A 6MT speed swap into a WRX would literally cost more than the cost of your car.

Take it from a guy who has spent wayyyy too much time and money on a WRX.

But if your goal long term is more serious in terms of power, it may make sense to be realistic with your goals and save up for an STI.

And STIs will only get MORE expensive as time goes on.

Oh and with full bolt-ons you'll totally be able to make 350-400 hp on your CURRENT WRX motor. It won't be WHP but you will certainly make ~350 horsepower at the crank if you snag a VF turbo, injectors, pump, exhaust and a tune.

I personally disagree with much of what's said here. Not that the parts in the STi aren't better but getting the STi simply because it has them. OP says v7's are $20k-$30k, so we'll take $25k to split the difference. His WRX was $5700.
-$4000 STi 6 speed and all parts to install it
-$2000 coilovers
-$300 STi control arms
-$1200 STi Brembo upgrade
-$4000 207 swap
(-$6000 rebuild engine/refresh heads)

Total $16,700 for basically building an STi. This assumes he does majority of the work. That's $8k less than the STi and it can be done in stages. I didn't include things that most STi owners who track their cars will upgrade anyway. Let's say for the tracks in his area 300whp/wtq enough, then there's really not a need for the 6 speed. Or maybe the gearing of the 5 speed is more suited to his driving but he opts for a rebuilt 5 speed instead which also save more than 100lbs of weight.

Then there's the fact that NZ got the ADM cars so their 207s didn't have the big port heads, so even with an STi he'd probably still end up doing head work. And if you're going to head work then you're probably going to rebuild the engine while it's down. We all know the rabbit hole and how easy it is to fall down it. 2015 or newer STi vs WRX, or even many GR MYs as well, then I'd agree get the STi because the price difference between them isn't enough to justify the WRX and then build it up. But the GD has such a large price difference that it really comes down to do you want that STi badge or do you just want to build a damn fun car. If the OP is planning on having a shop do the majority of the work then that changes the total cost a substantial amount and the STi could be more justified.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:04 AM   #7
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What would your track plans be? As a guy who started on the track with low power cars, you learn to really, really drive the line. There's no crutch of power to lean on when you're not even close to where you need to be driving. And of course, understand the rules of the class you plan to run in. It does become entertaining when some car salesman is trying to use his arguments to upgrade me from one model to another and I look up the cars in my rulebook and just look at him and say "That would put me in SSGT. I'd have my head handed to me.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:12 AM   #8
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post

I personally disagree with much of what's said here. Not that the parts in the STi aren't better but getting the STi simply because it has them. OP says v7's are $20k-$30k, so we'll take $25k to split the difference. His WRX was $5700.
-$4000 STi 6 speed and all parts to install it
-$2000 coilovers
-$300 STi control arms
-$1200 STi Brembo upgrade
-$4000 207 swap
(-$6000 rebuild engine/refresh heads)

Total $16,700 for basically building an STi. This assumes he does majority of the work. That's $8k less than the STi and it can be done in stages. I didn't include things that most STi owners who track their cars will upgrade anyway. Let's say for the tracks in his area 300whp/wtq enough, then there's really not a need for the 6 speed. Or maybe the gearing of the 5 speed is more suited to his driving but he opts for a rebuilt 5 speed instead which also save more than 100lbs of weight.

Then there's the fact that NZ got the ADM cars so their 207s didn't have the big port heads, so even with an STi he'd probably still end up doing head work. And if you're going to head work then you're probably going to rebuild the engine while it's down. We all know the rabbit hole and how easy it is to fall down it. 2015 or newer STi vs WRX, or even many GR MYs as well, then I'd agree get the STi because the price difference between them isn't enough to justify the WRX and then build it up. But the GD has such a large price difference that it really comes down to do you want that STi badge or do you just want to build a damn fun car. If the OP is planning on having a shop do the majority of the work then that changes the total cost a substantial amount and the STi could be more justified.

I was going off of his main post where he said of V7s in his area are $11-14K. I agree it certainty changes things a lot if its 25-30K for a V7.....

And I agree with Jack, power doesn't make driving well easier.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 04-27-2021 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
I was going off of his main post where he said of V7s in his area are $11-14K. I agree it certainty changes things a lot if its 25-30K for a V7.....

And I agree with Jack, power doesn't make driving well easier.


I was leaning more on the fact that he said a year ago and I've seen several people in various other places talking about them going well over $20k now. It seems mileage really is the driving factor. If it's considered high mileage then $15k is normal, but why go through all the work to get a high mileage one? It puts right back in the realm of having to fix/replace things because of lack of maintenance, previous owner beating the snot out of it, age, etc. financially it makes more sense to spend the extra money for a low mileage car for that generation.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
What would your track plans be? As a guy who started on the track with low power cars, you learn to really, really drive the line. There's no crutch of power to lean on when you're not even close to where you need to be driving. And of course, understand the rules of the class you plan to run in. It does become entertaining when some car salesman is trying to use his arguments to upgrade me from one model to another and I look up the cars in my rulebook and just look at him and say "That would put me in SSGT. I'd have my head handed to me.
To this point ^ many a wise track goers say you need to learn to drive a slow car fast before you can drive a fast car fast.

Slower also usually means cheaper which usually means more expendable if something were to go wrong.

There is a reason every track in the world is densely populated with miatas.

Seriously though OP, I promise you that you would have no more fun in a 400HP STi as you would in your 250HP WRX unless you know what you're doing.
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
I was leaning more on the fact that he said a year ago and I've seen several people in various other places talking about them going well over $20k now. It seems mileage really is the driving factor. If it's considered high mileage then $15k is normal, but why go through all the work to get a high mileage one? It puts right back in the realm of having to fix/replace things because of lack of maintenance, previous owner beating the snot out of it, age, etc. financially it makes more sense to spend the extra money for a low mileage car for that generation.

Agreed
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:53 PM   #12
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I currently own a 2013 STi (USDM) and it's currently making 403 whp. The car cost me $39k (the limited version) and I have dropped around $18k over the past 7+ years. I feel I have spent a LOT of money and the car hardly makes any power In my opinion, Subaru's reliability is mostly fan-base and hype.

I would strongly recommend waiting for the a new FA STi once it's actually in production. Then wait to see what people can do as far as tuning the new FA STi variant. Subaru has been very lazy in updating the STi engine.
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Old 04-28-2021, 05:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 240whpWRX View Post
Hey all

I have just had my WRX tuned recently to 250whp on a stock reflash.

Apart from that, I have only done 3 gauges installed and put an STI spoiler/scoop on.

All up I have spent:
$5,700 on the car
$675 on STI Spoiler and STI Scoop (Painted)
$120 on Walbro Fuel Pump
$1,000 on 3 gauges installed
$1,000 on a custom tune.

So that is roughly $9,000 all up.

I really want an STI as I have a new goal of around 350 - 400whp and a WRX wont get me there, but I am not quite in a financial position to get one atm but I will.

For now though, I really want to get a nice upgraded exhaust (catback) for the car and the Blitz is by far my favourite.

At what point am I wasting time pouring money into a WRX? I know a lot would have considered tuning a waste for a WRX but it is so nice now compared to stock and I'll probably have the car for at least the next year or two.

SHould I get an exhaust or wait and save my money for an STI as I have seen some V7s going for around 11 - 14k and that is not far off what I have spent on car.

The exhaust would cost me around $700 to buy new as I cannot seem to find second hand ones.

Cheers!
That all depends on what year/model you have. My 16 has over 320 WHP right now with light mods. 350 WHP for me is a full exhaust, intercooler and manifold along with the mods I already have.
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Old 04-28-2021, 05:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jefe159 View Post
To this point ^ many a wise track goers say you need to learn to drive a slow car fast before you can drive a fast car fast.

Slower also usually means cheaper which usually means more expendable if something were to go wrong.

There is a reason every track in the world is densely populated with miatas.

Seriously though OP, I promise you that you would have no more fun in a 400HP STi as you would in your 250HP WRX unless you know what you're doing.
It can be soooo cheap to have a light car on the track. I ran a prepared CRX for 5 years. I bought it as a used SCCA ITA car. I lightened it, ran larger brakes and ran time trials and instructed schools with it. I would buy a set of Hoosiers every year. I had a set of Kumhos for rain. I did start with 6 wheels with hoosiers plus rains, but beyond year one, I never bought more than 4 tires. The Carbotech brake pads were still good when I sold the rolling chassis 5 years later. Gas in my Yukon XL was the biggest expense. Well....and the enclosed aluminum trailer.

I bought this particular car because it had documented track times where I ran. It was faster than my E30 M3 where I had lap records in class at 2 tracks. The CRX had the stock 90 hp engine. It was all tires and suspension.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
What would your track plans be? As a guy who started on the track with low power cars, you learn to really, really drive the line. There's no crutch of power to lean on when you're not even close to where you need to be driving. And of course, understand the rules of the class you plan to run in. It does become entertaining when some car salesman is trying to use his arguments to upgrade me from one model to another and I look up the cars in my rulebook and just look at him and say "That would put me in SSGT. I'd have my head handed to me.
I'd only be casually tracking the STI. It would be a daily most likely, or at least a weekender/semi-daily and be tracked probably once a month ish. Not aiming for doing tons of intense track days.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
I was leaning more on the fact that he said a year ago and I've seen several people in various other places talking about them going well over $20k now. It seems mileage really is the driving factor. If it's considered high mileage then $15k is normal, but why go through all the work to get a high mileage one? It puts right back in the realm of having to fix/replace things because of lack of maintenance, previous owner beating the snot out of it, age, etc. financially it makes more sense to spend the extra money for a low mileage car for that generation.
High mileage is not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of the V7 STIs here have done 180 - 200,000km and yeah they could be thrashed (probably) but if they are well maintained, had work etc then they can be great cars. My WRX had 192,000km when I bought and it has done 207,500 now.

But maybe you are right and i should wait and get a more expensive, lower mileage STI.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jefe159 View Post
To this point ^ many a wise track goers say you need to learn to drive a slow car fast before you can drive a fast car fast.

Slower also usually means cheaper which usually means more expendable if something were to go wrong.

There is a reason every track in the world is densely populated with miatas.

Seriously though OP, I promise you that you would have no more fun in a 400HP STi as you would in your 250HP WRX unless you know what you're doing.
That is a fair point. I actually am not getting it primarily for the track it is more of a daily/weekender and tracking once a month or so.

I just feel like a WRX is limiting in so many ways and an STI is much better.

I have kind of safely maxed out my WRX at 302hp on 15.5psi so would love an STI to work towards those 350whp goals and also just for the better internals etc
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
I currently own a 2013 STi (USDM) and it's currently making 403 whp. The car cost me $39k (the limited version) and I have dropped around $18k over the past 7+ years. I feel I have spent a LOT of money and the car hardly makes any power In my opinion, Subaru's reliability is mostly fan-base and hype.

I would strongly recommend waiting for the a new FA STi once it's actually in production. Then wait to see what people can do as far as tuning the new FA STi variant. Subaru has been very lazy in updating the STi engine.
I don't think reliability is hype, I think it comes down to user and maintenance and care.

You can blow Supras if you are dumb. I talked to quite a few tuners and he said he has seen some really thrashed, beat up WRXs/STIs and the engine are still going strong.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
If you want the STI, save up and buy an STI. Bigger brakes, better trans, EJ207. Its just better.

If its an older STI with a 5 speed be a little more weary of it but if you find a 6 Speed STI, sell your WRX and buy it if your goal long term is to have the car and build it. The 6 speed alone is worth it.

A 6MT speed swap into a WRX would literally cost more than the cost of your car.

Take it from a guy who has spent wayyyy too much time and money on a WRX.

I probably should have bought an STI but hey, its fun to be unique.

But if you don't want an STI and you want to build a WRX, do it.

But if your goal long term is more serious in terms of power, it may make sense to be realistic with your goals and save up for an STI.

And STIs will only get MORE expensive as time goes on.

Oh and with full bolt-ons you'll totally be able to make 350-400 hp on your CURRENT WRX motor. It won't be WHP but you will certainly make ~350 horsepower at the crank if you snag a VF turbo, injectors, pump, exhaust and a tune.
I really want the STI, I only want a Version 7 or Version 8 but sticking to a Version 7 because JDM Version 7 comes with Forged Internals from factory so they are super strong from factory, boxer rumble as unequal headers on the V7 but not V8 and Single scroll which is a little bit easier to find parts for.

Its not that I don't want an STI, I would just be pushing it financially at this point as I am studying. There is one I CAN buy for 15k right now (About 10,500 USD) and it feels like a good one to jump on.

It has done higher kms at 192,000km but it is dyno tuned already 300whp so a lot of work is already done.
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:30 AM   #20
snow_bound26
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Originally Posted by 240whpWRX View Post
High mileage is not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of the V7 STIs here have done 180 - 200,000km and yeah they could be thrashed (probably) but if they are well maintained, had work etc then they can be great cars. My WRX had 192,000km when I bought and it has done 207,500 now.



But maybe you are right and i should wait and get a more expensive, lower mileage STI.


Like you said, it really depends on maintenance. But how many owners truly keep records to prove the maintenance they claim they did. In reality it's a gamble when you're adding the extra wear with track time.

As far as power goes, does your 205 have AVCS? Are you still on the TD04?

I ask this because you think you're at the limits of your power already at 300bhp (240ish whp?). I had a VF34 on my JDM 205 before swapping a 207 in and was making 292whp/297wtq @ 19psi without an issue. Lots of canyon driving, a couple auto x and track day events. Definitely did not baby it. My goal was to work into the mid 300's and that's where my tuner said I'd be walking a fine line. 350ish wtq (depending on fuel quality and tune) is where most tuners feel it's at its max. The OEM rods are the weak point followed by the rod bearings. Push the torque too high at too low of an RPM and it kills your bearings fast.

In reality, you're at the limit of the TD04. Throw a VF on there with a quality tune aiming for 270ish whp/wtq and you'll have a solid safety margin for pushing it hard at the track. Using a larger turbo without maxing it out will be safer for any engine. It will run cooler keeping your IATs down and be more reliable. I'd rather have a VF @ 17psi than a TD04 @ 17psi for example.

Make sure you do the cyl 4 cooling mod and an oil cooler. STi Brembo swap is pretty cheap these days. FHI 4/2pot is even cheaper and almost as good. I'm actually running Brembo front/FHI rear because the FHI rear calipers have larger pistons than GD Brembo's and the rears don't usually over heat easily.

Is the STi better in OEM form, yes. But it's so easy to make the older WRX just as good as an STi. Personally, I think you're over thinking it. But it really depends on how you drive. If you dump the clutch a lot the STi trans is a better choice. 207 is hands down the better engine. But the 205 is quite reliable around 300whp/wtq. Otherwise, if you're really going to do a track day once a month, then you're going to end up doing coilovers, sway bars, chassis bracing, larger TMIC or FMIC, wider wheels, and possibly a 5x114 conversion on a WRX or a v7 STi. All I'm saying is you have a capable car. Go enjoy it. Take the mod path that's best for your driving style because either car will be fun.
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Old 05-06-2021, 08:33 PM   #21
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I had the same kind of dilemma with my 2009 wrx, it is a narrow body and I want a wide body, but I already had so much into it mod wise, I was either going to sell it with a busted engine or just get it running and sell it. I ended up getting a Cusco 1.5 way rear clutch LSD and a Blouch 20G, with forged internal stuff.

I'm happy with my decision not to sell it and have another car note. It is a lot of fun.
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:33 AM   #22
Bugeye01WRX
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Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
Like you said, it really depends on maintenance. But how many owners truly keep records to prove the maintenance they claim they did. In reality it's a gamble when you're adding the extra wear with track time.

As far as power goes, does your 205 have AVCS? Are you still on the TD04?

I ask this because you think you're at the limits of your power already at 300bhp (240ish whp?). I had a VF34 on my JDM 205 before swapping a 207 in and was making 292whp/297wtq @ 19psi without an issue. Lots of canyon driving, a couple auto x and track day events. Definitely did not baby it. My goal was to work into the mid 300's and that's where my tuner said I'd be walking a fine line. 350ish wtq (depending on fuel quality and tune) is where most tuners feel it's at its max. The OEM rods are the weak point followed by the rod bearings. Push the torque too high at too low of an RPM and it kills your bearings fast.

In reality, you're at the limit of the TD04. Throw a VF on there with a quality tune aiming for 270ish whp/wtq and you'll have a solid safety margin for pushing it hard at the track. Using a larger turbo without maxing it out will be safer for any engine. It will run cooler keeping your IATs down and be more reliable. I'd rather have a VF @ 17psi than a TD04 @ 17psi for example.

Make sure you do the cyl 4 cooling mod and an oil cooler. STi Brembo swap is pretty cheap these days. FHI 4/2pot is even cheaper and almost as good. I'm actually running Brembo front/FHI rear because the FHI rear calipers have larger pistons than GD Brembo's and the rears don't usually over heat easily.

Is the STi better in OEM form, yes. But it's so easy to make the older WRX just as good as an STi. Personally, I think you're over thinking it. But it really depends on how you drive. If you dump the clutch a lot the STi trans is a better choice. 207 is hands down the better engine. But the 205 is quite reliable around 300whp/wtq. Otherwise, if you're really going to do a track day once a month, then you're going to end up doing coilovers, sway bars, chassis bracing, larger TMIC or FMIC, wider wheels, and possibly a 5x114 conversion on a WRX or a v7 STi. All I'm saying is you have a capable car. Go enjoy it. Take the mod path that's best for your driving style because either car will be fun.
Yeah you definitely make some good points! I think I am just gonna spend a little more and import a nice low km example from japan.

Yep my WRX has AVCS and yes still on TD04.

The reason I stayed on TD04 was
1. I was struggling to find a VF30 Turbo at the time to replace.
2. By not upgrading turbo I saved on costs for injectors, TMIC and Turbo itself as well as install costs, as I wanted to keep costs down because I plan to get an STI, so I went with just Downpipe tune route and eventually actually settled on just a retune.

I got great gains from it. Went from 247hp to 302hp which was awesome!

I also have been told that 300bhp (250whp) is the upper SAFE limit for our WRXs. I know engine etc can handle a little more but our gearbox (especially the bugeye ones) are garbage and can easily blow even at stock hp levels so I kept power reasonable to mostly not put too much power for the trans.

I am currently running 15.5psi on the TD04 so a nice safe PSI for the TD04 as well.

I definitely don't want to track a WRX as the small intercooler, weak gearbox etc will just be a huge letdown.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:14 AM   #23
snow_bound26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeye01WRX View Post
Yeah you definitely make some good points! I think I am just gonna spend a little more and import a nice low km example from japan.



Yep my WRX has AVCS and yes still on TD04.



The reason I stayed on TD04 was

1. I was struggling to find a VF30 Turbo at the time to replace.

2. By not upgrading turbo I saved on costs for injectors, TMIC and Turbo itself as well as install costs, as I wanted to keep costs down because I plan to get an STI, so I went with just Downpipe tune route and eventually actually settled on just a retune.



I got great gains from it. Went from 247hp to 302hp which was awesome!



I also have been told that 300bhp (250whp) is the upper SAFE limit for our WRXs. I know engine etc can handle a little more but our gearbox (especially the bugeye ones) are garbage and can easily blow even at stock hp levels so I kept power reasonable to mostly not put too much power for the trans.



I am currently running 15.5psi on the TD04 so a nice safe PSI for the TD04 as well.



I definitely don't want to track a WRX as the small intercooler, weak gearbox etc will just be a huge letdown.


What final drive did you get in NZ? Try not to think in terms of hp when it comes to the trans. It's power capabilities are measured in torque. This is, combined with driving habits creates shock load and that's what will break the trans. More than anything your driving habits are what's important. Most tuners will encourage people to keep their 5 speeds to a max of 300wtq. This is where sloppy driving habits or someone who is a bit rough with the clutch typically starts having issues. Can you break it at stock power levels? Sure. Go dump the clutch from 5k a bunch of times and you'll most likely have something let go. But there are plenty of people who have 350+ wtq and have been fine because of the way they drive.

I ask about final drive because that does play a role as well. In the US 02-05 WRXs had an FD of 3.9, 06-07 were 3.7, many JDM, EDM and ADM were 4.44 or 4.11. If you have 4.11 then you have a little more leeway as this ratio reduces the amount of effort to make all the spinny bits starts moving. 4.44 is even better. Basically, you're reducing the shock load on the internal parts. I had swapped in a 4.44 for a couple years and it was a great trans. Gearing was tons of fun with the VF34. You can push your actual FD further by going with a tire that has a smaller overall diameter than OEM as well. This will make your odometer and speed sensor a bit less accurate, but you're further reducing the shock load to get the car moving. If you're driving properly at the track you're never dumping the clutch and the that keeps the gear box happy.

If this is the info you're tuner is giving you then you have to stick with what he feels comfortable with. But, when it comes to track driving the biggest issue with the WRX and the v7 STi is oil flow and the flat bottom oil pan. This was made better but not perfect on the twin scroll versions. Cars that came with the flat bottom oil pan are prone to oil starvation under moderate cornering load because there's nothing to keep the oil around the pickup tube. A v9+ or aftermarket pan from Moroso, Killer B, or IAG is recommended. The oil pickup tube should also be replaced as these are a known weakness. There are a couple companies that make windage trays to keep oil from going out of the pan when and where it shouldn't. Check out Killer Bs website. They have a lot of good info on these issues and it's something you have to address no matter what Subaru you plan on taking to the track.
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