Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2010, 07:16 PM   #1
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default First Drive: 2011 Honda CR-Z

Quote:
First Drive: 2011 Honda CR-Z
The Enthusiast's Hybrid
March, 2010
/ By Peter Lyon
/ Photography by Yo****ada Moro

Honda's once-proud sporting image has taken a beating lately. Its last foray into Formula 1 was a disaster, made even more embarrassing by the fact its former team swept the championship the year after it pulled out -- with Mercedes engines. The on-again, off-again NSX supercar program is now truly dead, along with the iconic S2000, both killed in favor of channeling resources toward good, clean family transport like the Fit, Civic and CR-V. But now an unlikely hybrid sports coupe with a 6-speed manual gearbox -- a world first for a hybrid drivetrain -- is set to inject some passion back into Honda's performance heritage. It's called the CR-Z.

The production CR-Z's exterior is nowhere near as taut and tight as that of the concept Honda revealed at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show, which sent the blogosphere into a frenzy of anticipation: Was Honda bringing back the CR-X? While the production CR-Z lacks some of the muscularity of the concept, it still looks like nothing else on the road; that large, imposing grille and upslanting headlights start a design motif that finishes with a bold swish for a C-pillar and a sculptured rear deck.

Many readers will remember the wedge-shaped CR-X of the early 80s and see some strategic resemblances. But as project leader Norio Tomobe pointed out at our drive session: "We were not aiming for a modern day CR-X. We wanted to create a totally new type of hybrid sports coupe that would take us into a more discerning and environmentally-conscious 21st century. The fact that's it's a hybrid just adds another intriguing dimension to the sporty mix. If it reminds you of the CR-X then that's purely coincidental."

Built on a slightly shorter, but wider, Insight platform, the CR-Z's wheelbase has been clipped 4.5 in compared with the Insight. It's also 1.2 in lower, and 97 lbs lighter. It seems much more low-slung when you slip into the driver's seat, because the H-point is closer to the floor. There's plenty of headroom for driver's up to 6 ft 5 in, but forget the rear seats, which would struggle to accommodate a 12 year old. Flatten the rear seats and you create 14.1 cubic feet of luggage space, enough for a couple of suitcases, or two golf bags.

At first look, interior trim and quality seems about one and a half levels above that of the Insight's, and the instrumentation boasts more design flair. The CR-Z's dash is well set out, superbly illuminated and intuitive.

Under the hood is the 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine from the Fit, and mated to a revised 6-speed manual transmission lifted out of the European-spec 1.8-liter Civic. The internal combustion engine delivers 112 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 107 pound-feet of torque at 4800 rpm; the CR-Z's brushless DC electric motor -- positioned in place of the flywheel, and powered by nickel metal hydride batteries -- generates 14 horsepower at 1500 rpm and 57 pound-feet at 1000 rpm. Through a complex calculation, which we won't go into here, Honda claims the combined power output of the CR-Z's hybrid system is 122 horsepower at 6000 rpm while combined torque is 128 pound-feet at 1500 rpm.

"Given the 1.5-liter's greater torque we had to redesign the IMA system and gearbox to cope," explains Tomobe. But to experience the full force of this beefy bottom end grunt, Tomobe suggests we first select 'sports mode' from the car's new dash-mounted, 3-mode drive system switches. In sports mode, throttle response mapping is changed, and the electric motor acts as a kind of mild supercharger when accelerating, Tomobe says. The other modes -- 'Normal' and 'Econ' modes -- retard throttle response to reduce fuel consumption and lower emissions.

With world-beating manual gearboxes like those in the S2000, NSX and Civic Type R, the CR-Z's stick shift has a lot to live up to. And thanks to some inspired revision on the European Civic's transmission, the six-speed delivers deliciously short throws and a firm, precise linkage action. For the North American market, Honda will also offer a seven-speed continuously variable transmission (CVT), adapted from the Fit's CVT unit. The CVT requires the engine's torque output to be dropped to 123 pound-feet.

While the old CR-X twin cams were fairly rev-happy, the first thing you notice is the CR-Z's bottom end grunt. With maximum torque on tap from just 1500 rpm, the coupe jumps from rest and reaches 60 mph in 9 seconds flat. Keep the engine spinning between 4000 and 6000 rpm, and the CR-Z will reward any right boot extension, while the specially tuned throatier exhaust adds to this all new sporty hybrid experience. But it will also accelerate strongly from as low as 2000 rpm on an uphill grade thanks to the motor's 'assistance.'

'Econ' mode, which effectively restricts throttle action, enables the car to reach 58 mpg, but we found ourselves leaving it in sports mode as it offers quicker response at both low and high speeds and suits the sporty characteristics of this car down to a tee. Honda claims an average of 48.5 mpg for Japanese spec CR-Zs; U.S.-spec manual cars are expected to achieve an EPA rating of 31/37 mpg city/highway, while the CVT is expected to achieve 37/38 mpg. In global eco-performance car terms, those mileage numbers are a little disappointing, frankly: For example, the bigger, heavier, more powerful, diesel powered VW Golf GTD will deliver 32 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway on the European driving cycle, and is about a full second faster to 60 mph.

The good news for enthusiast drivers is that while the Insight is just plain harsh, the CR-Z is firm but compliant. Enhanced rigidity throughout the body structure and significant revisions to the torsion bar setup on the rear suspension help explain why the car handles and rides much better. Honda has paid special attention to the CR-Z's steering, too. Tomobe had a secret benchmark, the steering of his own BMW 325i Coupe, and the revised EPS steering is therefore superbly weighted and delivers excellent feel.

Honda engineers also required special editions of Bridgestone's Potenza R050 or Yokohama's Advan A10, co-developed with both tiremakers. Tomobe says his handling evaluation team had Keiichi 'Drift King' Tsuchiya do some back to back laps in three sets of tires -- eco tires, high performance gumballs, and the special CR-Z rubber -- with Tsuchiya concluding that the latter type offer the best combination of grip, economy and low noise levels.

While the Insight employs a system that switches between hydraulic and regenerative braking, the CR-Z's main braking system is hydraulic. "We use a full hydraulic brake system that employs the regenerative braking only as an 'assist mechanism'," says Tomobe. Unlike the current crop of hybrids, which deliver a somewhat synthetic feel, the CR-Z offers sure-footed stopping power every time.

Norio Tomobe acknowledges that the CR-Z is a bold step into an uncertain market. But he is convinced Honda has launched the hybrid coupe at the right time. With its bold looks, high quality, and genuine driver appeal, the CR-Z could stimulate interest in hybrids among customers who view the great gas mileage the technology delivers as a useful side benefit, and not simply the reason for buying the car in the first place. Oh, and watch out for the high performance Mugen version in coming in 2011.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html













* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-15-2010, 07:22 PM   #2
gungaslow
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 144906
Join Date: Mar 2007
Default

that is almost as ugly as my wife!!
gungaslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:08 PM   #3
thedaddyb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64374
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
07 WRX SWP *SOLD
03 2.5ts BRP long gone

Default

Man I really want to like this car . . . but every angle/side looks horrendous.
thedaddyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:13 PM   #4
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2023 Tangerine
2023 3 Cylinder

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedaddyb View Post
Man I really want to like this car . . . but every angle/side looks horrendous.
Same here... especially after the concept.
quentinberg007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:39 PM   #5
Dragicon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112323
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Default

the concept car looked really nice... what happened?!
Dragicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:54 PM   #6
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

I think I could live with the styling, but the performance/mileage seems pretty underwhelming.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:00 PM   #7
Evil STI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36792
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ HamfistRacing.com
Vehicle:
2018 BMW M2
2016 FRS RS 2.0 #661

Default

Granted, I like to feel safe when driving but the front/side impact protection measures these small cars must meet in order to pass regulations in the United States is awful.
Evil STI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:02 PM   #8
skywaffles
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82470
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: The CHAZ
Default

9 seconds to sixty!?

It'd be a hoot if you pulled all that hybrid garbage out and swapped the SI's engine in.
skywaffles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:11 PM   #9
darknightohio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50523
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toledo
Vehicle:
2023 GR86
Gray

Default

Spoon can make it look OK:

darknightohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:14 PM   #10
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

$24,000
0-60 in 9.0 sec
31/37 mpg (manual), 37/38 mpg (CVT)

Unless at least one of those numbers is way off, I really don't know what the point of this car is.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:17 PM   #11
RexDriverNY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 173371
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Brooklyn NY
Vehicle:
2010 VW GTI MKVI
Candy white

Default

i thought they said it was going to be a sports car? The Honda Fit is more sport than this vehicular abortion.
RexDriverNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #12
FaastLegacy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11671
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Default

I generally like Hondas as well as own one, but I think this CR-Z is a piece of ****.

What is the point of this car?
FaastLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:55 PM   #13
tylerzero
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112397
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: COLORADO
Vehicle:
'06 non-turbogasm
wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darknightohio View Post
Spoon can make it look OK:
Almost any car can look "okay" with a drop and larger wheels.

A lot of people having been waiting a long freaking time for a suitable CR-X successor...

...way to let 'em down, Honda.
tylerzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 10:59 PM   #14
im2lazy789
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 166857
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Watkins Glen, NY
Vehicle:
2009 Ford Mustang GT

Default

I'd rather a Golf TDI
im2lazy789 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #15
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Or even a Jetta wagon TDi
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:15 AM   #16
daphunkie12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 52566
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Elgin IL , Chicago
Default

can someone please tell me they will have an Si model!
daphunkie12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:33 AM   #17
woody06967
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110330
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: https://www.must-stash-it.com
Vehicle:
2004 996TT
2018 SQ5

Default

I don't like anything about this and I still love CRXs. Huge fan of Honda as a company but they're not making anything exciting these days.
woody06967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:36 AM   #18
Balantz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101457
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
Czar of Sweet Dance
Moves

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
I think I could live with the styling, but the performance/mileage seems pretty underwhelming.
Ding. I wanted so badly to like this car, but it just spells fail. I'd rather have a first-gen Insight and get 60 mpg, or a Fit and get the same mpg, same performance (~ish), and more space for far less money. This makes no sense. Sorry, Honda, I used to love you. Now you fail.
Balantz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:54 AM   #19
scooby_saloon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 111409
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Sedan
BRP

Default

Yuck.
scooby_saloon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 01:19 AM   #20
nhat
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:
03 STi
hellaflunctional

Default

i think honda is trying to be too much like toyota...

Quote:
But now an unlikely hybrid sports coupe with a 6-speed manual gearbox -- a world first for a hybrid drivetrain -- is set to inject some passion back into Honda's performance heritage. It's called the CR-Z.
sports? passion? what's sporty about it other than having 2 doors? what's there to be passionate about? i fail to see the market this car is intended for given the numbers. why would you buy this instead of a fit? so you can spend more and pay higher insurance rates?

honda's last 2 unveilings: the honda crosstour and this abomination...

Last edited by nhat; 03-16-2010 at 02:36 AM.
nhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 01:56 AM   #21
industrial
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7250
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Home
Vehicle:
2018 Honda Clarity

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
$24,000
0-60 in 9.0 sec
31/37 mpg (manual), 37/38 mpg (CVT)

Unless at least one of those numbers is way off, I really don't know what the point of this car is.
Yeah, after I found the mpg numbers this is my conclusion as well. If this thing got 41/47 then maybe they'd have something. Or did 0-60 in 6 seconds. Or was buyable for under 18,000.

This car is a big pile of unfocused fail. I REALLY want to like it too.
industrial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 02:51 AM   #22
ezparts
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10555
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: MPK, CA
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Blue

Default

B16C engine swap!
ezparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 03:52 AM   #23
NismoSkylineGTR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94622
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gungaslow View Post
that is almost as ugly as my wife!!
LOL

I hope she doesn't see this post

But its a honda can't expect too much from them now days
NismoSkylineGTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 08:56 AM   #24
justincredible
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83633
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: The Mountains
Vehicle:
2012 bright green
box

Default

It looks better in person and does look like a modern CRX. I really wish it just had a little soul under the hood.
A high reving K series engine making between 150 and 200 would be fantastic in this car.


Hopefully Honda releases such a thing down the road.

Last edited by justincredible; 03-16-2010 at 09:22 AM.
justincredible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 09:09 AM   #25
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Drive: 2011 Toyota Sienna tries to make the minivan cool BOY Non-Subaru News & Rumors 34 12-24-2009 11:50 AM
First Drive: 2009 Honda FCX Clarity, world's first series production fuel cell car Chromer Non-Subaru News & Rumors 3 11-20-2007 10:49 AM
First Drive: 2008 Honda S2000 CR darknightohio Non-Subaru News & Rumors 12 08-13-2007 03:00 PM
First Drive: 2007 Honda Civic Type R (edmunds.com) NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 03-01-2007 12:54 PM
Test Drive: 2007 Honda CR-V EX (CanadianDriver.com) NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 01-11-2007 10:59 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.