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Old 08-28-2018, 03:57 PM   #1
stlwrx
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Default Tire Question for SCCA Solo

My current set-up on my WRX Wagon is 225/45/17 (on a 17x8 rim) on Indy Firehawk 500s - on this set-up, I was rubbing quite a bit on hard turns in the rear (do not want to roll fenders)

I got a dedicated set of track day wheels (16x6.5 in wheels from 05 Saab 92-aero) and paired them with much better tire - 225/50/R16 Falken Azenis RT615K+.

Two things - I know I'm gaining traction in width with 225 - but will I notice any slop with the turn in with a 225/50 on a 6.5 in width wheel? these tires will not see anything but the track.

How much of a performance difference will I notice going from the Firehawks (340 UTQG) to the Falkens (200 UTQG)
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:31 PM   #2
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You'll see zero since treadwear is not a good indicator of grip and the Azenis are not as good as you'd think. You'll see more sidewall flop, but on track it's not nearly as noticeable as at autox. Now if you're talking about autox as track, then you'll see a slight change in turn in time, but likely not noticeable for you.

If you're rubbing, run a bit more rear camber.
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:11 PM   #3
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Saw you post in another group, just listen to TheClap and be done with it
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:32 PM   #4
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I agree with trying to setup with more camber to clear the fenders. The stiffness of having a 17" versus a 16" is going to be better even if you had to sacrifice 10mm of track width. My general guidelines are to buy tires that are +- 10mm of the wheel width in order to get the best response. You will end up being able to transition quicker and the flat tire profile from a properly sized tire is going to handle better than a wider but domed out tire profile.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:35 PM   #5
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What wheel offset? 225/45-17 should not rub on a wagon.

--kC
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
You'll see zero since treadwear is not a good indicator of grip and the Azenis are not as good as you'd think. You'll see more sidewall flop, but on track it's not nearly as noticeable as at autox. Now if you're talking about autox as track, then you'll see a slight change in turn in time, but likely not noticeable for you.

If you're rubbing, run a bit more rear camber.


so the Azenis are not good. are any of the other Azenis good like the fk510? I'm looking at replacing my all seasons, (nitto motivos) that I started autocrossing with. yeah I know at the time and currently don't have the budget to get a second set of wheels and tires. I'm looking at something around 300tw but you say treadwear is not a good indicator so how do you I figure out what will be a good grip tire and what won't. I'd like to get 20-30k miles with 12 events (4-5 runs) if possible. some one said look at the azenis fk510.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by nemos_black_wrx View Post
so the Azenis are not good. are any of the other Azenis good like the fk510? I'm looking at replacing my all seasons, (nitto motivos) that I started autocrossing with. yeah I know at the time and currently don't have the budget to get a second set of wheels and tires. I'm looking at something around 300tw but you say treadwear is not a good indicator so how do you I figure out what will be a good grip tire and what won't. I'd like to get 20-30k miles with 12 events (4-5 runs) if possible. some one said look at the azenis fk510.
I can personally recommend a Hankook Ventus V12 Evo (320tw). I was doing the same thing, commuting and autocrossing, and they lasted 3 years. I was running different tires in the winter time though so there was about 4 months each year that they weren't used. They were quick on an autocross course, and unless you have a stiff coilover and chassis braced setup they will provide as much grip as your car can handle before it starts folding tires over from changing camber.

I have also run a Firestone Indy at 340 tw I do not recommend it compared to the hankook. It wasn't a bad tire, just not in the same class. Hope that helps.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsrapophis View Post
I can personally recommend a Hankook Ventus V12 Evo (320tw). I was doing the same thing, commuting and autocrossing, and they lasted 3 years. I was running different tires in the winter time though so there was about 4 months each year that they weren't used. They were quick on an autocross course, and unless you have a stiff coilover and chassis braced setup they will provide as much grip as your car can handle before it starts folding tires over from changing camber.

I have also run a Firestone Indy at 340 tw I do not recommend it compared to the hankook. It wasn't a bad tire, just not in the same class. Hope that helps.
My experience with the V12 Evo (6 years ago...) was pretty poor. They have incredibly soft sidewalls, and really don't provide much grip at all. If you want a summer tire that is more street than autox and performs very well in rain, but still holds up well to abuse and keeps sticking, look at the BFG G-force Sport Comp 2 (non-"all season" version). Keep in mind these are nowhere near the Rival 1.5 or RE71R...
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:30 PM   #9
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My experience with the V12 Evo (6 years ago...) was pretty poor. They have incredibly soft sidewalls, and really don't provide much grip at all. If you want a summer tire that is more street than autox and performs very well in rain, but still holds up well to abuse and keeps sticking, look at the BFG G-force Sport Comp 2 (non-"all season" version). Keep in mind these are nowhere near the Rival 1.5 or RE71R...
Pretty sure you can generally disregard anyone who says they autoxed on the same 300+ treadwear tire for 3 years and thought that tire was "good". Especially when they bring up chassis bracing.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:49 PM   #10
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This corner of the forum is not where one suggests 300TW tires for anything but AutoX in the rain.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:03 PM   #11
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Pretty sure you can generally disregard anyone who says they autoxed on the same 300+ treadwear tire for 3 years and thought that tire was "good". Especially when they bring up chassis bracing.
Good at making a lot of noise...slowly around the course.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:42 PM   #12
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Pretty sure you can generally disregard anyone who says they autoxed on the same 300+ treadwear tire for 3 years and thought that tire was "good". Especially when they bring up chassis bracing.
That was pretty rude. The person asked for a tire they could get mileage off of and go to 4-5 autocross events a year. It seems pretty logical that they aren't competitive and they are not going to buy the top tire because they will be lucky to get 5k miles off of that. To that end the hankook is a viable option. Side wall flex can be helped with proper width wheels, but its hard to find a stiff tire that also lasts. Maybe a Dunlop ZII for 10-15K miles.

"Chassis Bracing" is an important detail. If you have a sticky tire on a stock subaru your camber is going to vary greatly and define your limit of grip more than the grip of that tire. In my experience.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:41 PM   #13
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That was pretty rude. The person asked for a tire they could get mileage off of and go to 4-5 autocross events a year. It seems pretty logical that they aren't competitive and they are not going to buy the top tire because they will be lucky to get 5k miles off of that. To that end the hankook is a viable option. Side wall flex can be helped with proper width wheels, but its hard to find a stiff tire that also lasts. Maybe a Dunlop ZII for 10-15K miles.

"Chassis Bracing" is an important detail. If you have a sticky tire on a stock subaru your camber is going to vary greatly and define your limit of grip more than the grip of that tire. In my experience.
It was the quickest, most honest way to say what needed to be said. I'd say the same to your face if that makes it any better

I knew the OP wasn't competitive from a myriad of things in the first post. However, I also know tires (no matter the treadwear) that you think are good for 3 years of casual autox have to be absolutely horrible, even in comparison to the Indy or Falken. A "reasonable for a local" autox tire that you could get that much mileage out of while not sucking is the Conti ECS, and even then you should replace them every 2ish years (at the latest) if you're autoxing and DDing them.

Your camber will change based on roll, not body bracing. You can fix that through roll resistance (springs, bars, shocks). Chassis bracing has absolutely zero impact in this instance. You'd need to have tire sizes that start with a 3 before even a strut bar would be needed on a GC let alone a GD/GR and even then it's the suspension and alignment that matter most for using the contact patch appropriately.

Not being mean, and I'm glad you enjoy the sport. I would suggest learning more about setup so you can see what I'm talking about regarding tire life, contact patch, what a sticky tire actually is, and the chassis in general.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:45 PM   #14
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Dunlop has a ZIII now and you'd be hard pressed to get that many miles out of the Z2 without serious hydroplane concerns when they get low.

For the casual autocrosser who still kind of cares. Get one of the following.

Continental Extreme Contact Sport
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

They'll be good for 20,000+ miles, great on the street and depending on what region you race in and if you can wheel, you'll be able hang near the top of your class and maybe even win if it's wet.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #15
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@subydude
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:16 PM   #16
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It was the quickest, most honest way to say what needed to be said. I'd say the same to your face if that makes it any better

I knew the OP wasn't competitive from a myriad of things in the first post. However, I also know tires (no matter the treadwear) that you think are good for 3 years of casual autox have to be absolutely horrible, even in comparison to the Indy or Falken. A "reasonable for a local" autox tire that you could get that much mileage out of while not sucking is the Conti ECS, and even then you should replace them every 2ish years (at the latest) if you're autoxing and DDing them.

Your camber will change based on roll, not body bracing. You can fix that through roll resistance (springs, bars, shocks). Chassis bracing has absolutely zero impact in this instance. You'd need to have tire sizes that start with a 3 before even a strut bar would be needed on a GC let alone a GD/GR and even then it's the suspension and alignment that matter most for using the contact patch appropriately.

Not being mean, and I'm glad you enjoy the sport. I would suggest learning more about setup so you can see what I'm talking about regarding tire life, contact patch, what a sticky tire actually is, and the chassis in general.
Thanks, I guess? I suppose that is as close to making nice as you are going to give me so I'll take it. And I will happily continue learning, despite the virtual head pat and euphemism for "well at least he tries" that you've just given me.

What is your autocross setup if I may ask? I am new in these parts of the internet and don't know who you are.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:21 PM   #17
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Thanks, I guess? I suppose that is as close to making nice as you are going to give me so I'll take it. And I will happily continue learning, despite the virtual head pat and euphemism for "well at least he tries" that you've just given me.

What is your autocross setup if I may ask? I am new in these parts of the internet and don't know who you are.
I have a pet peeve about people who put too much emphasis on things I know don't matter. Also, most people will tell you I'm an *******, but at least one that shares his alcohol which I suppose makes me tolerable.

My autox car:

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Old 09-14-2018, 03:47 PM   #18
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I can vouch that subydude is an *******, but he's right most of the time.

Wouldn't the Hankook RS4 be a good fit for the OP needs? We had them on a chump car and they were pretty durable.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:34 PM   #19
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I have a pet peeve about people who put too much emphasis on things I know don't matter. Also, most people will tell you I'm an *******, but at least one that shares his alcohol which I suppose makes me tolerable.

Nice looking GC! Have you run any other DOT slick other than Hoosier, reviews? I have always run street tire classes and am moving to SM next year, wondering how much time I'd be giving up by going with anything else.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:46 PM   #20
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Dunlop has a ZIII now and you'd be hard pressed to get that many miles out of the Z2 without serious hydroplane concerns when they get low.

For the casual autocrosser who still kind of cares. Get one of the following.

Continental Extreme Contact Sport
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

They'll be good for 20,000+ miles, great on the street and depending on what region you race in and if you can wheel, you'll be able hang near the top of your class and maybe even win if it's wet.
Z2*'s are **** too. I can confirm.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:47 PM   #21
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I haven't ran other than A6/A7's in like 7 years so no relevant data. You'd almost be better off on big Rivals than the Hankook or Maxxis r-comps. The A7's actually last a long time in comparison to the A6, so it might be worth while to find some take offs to get your feet wet.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:35 PM   #22
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I had been curious about the Rivals for next year, running an RE71 currently. For my local club classing it would be best to run a 200TW tire, I will only be running a couple SCCA events and so buying hoosiers for 2 events seemed excessive. What width A7 were you able to run?
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:42 PM   #23
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I had been curious about the Rivals for next year, running an RE71 currently. For my local club classing it would be best to run a 200TW tire, I will only be running a couple SCCA events and so buying hoosiers for 2 events seemed excessive. What width A7 were you able to run?
335, but with a lot of work. What you could run is highly dependent on setup.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:44 PM   #24
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This thread touches on something that most forums have issues with all of the time: People that are not necessarily informed giving most of the 'advice'. If you don't really know the answer, don't answer :P
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:15 AM   #25
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wow I don't my question was answer. or some where were? trying to answer it but not sure they did. if you are trying to answer me. yes I'm not competitive, I just started this year back in march in n-STS. car 2012 impreza on 8k/8k feals , brake centric premium with girodisc ss brakes, and corbeau fx1 seats.
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