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Old 01-18-2023, 12:50 PM   #4026
legav05
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Wrong!

DEALER drops...
LOL backroom manufacturer kickbacks to the dealers to accomplish this and not bankrupt their dealers. How do you think the more shrewd of us manage to buy Subaru's below "invoice" all the time? It's NOT below their actual cost.

But yeah, tell the whole world how evil Tesla is with their steep discount... Please continue.
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Old 01-18-2023, 03:22 PM   #4027
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I was actually thinking the same thing the other day.



I really wonder how many people took delivery of the 5 seater Model Y becuase it was know at the time that they would have save $4500 by getting the 7 seater Model Y.




Personally I am sick of the Tesla drama and I wish I had sold all my stock earlier and right now I have to wait it out until their is a new bull market and stocks start to go up again to get out at a better price. I enjoy Tesla cars but Elon is really polarizing thanks to his big mouth. I don't watch news, I don't care about politics and I have worked for an EV company for many years and understand way before many that technology was superior and that it was going to be the future.
never thought I would see the day when your fanboi bone would break.

I have a clue for you. You were part of the Tesla Drama. At every article and turn. It is and always was just a car with good branding. Nothing more. Take away the brand and you just have a bunch of plastic and metal.

Just like

Every

Other

Car.
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:28 PM   #4028
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https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-01-19/

Interesting quote from the article:

"By 2026, North American EV demand will hit a level of about 2.8 million vehicles a year, said industry forecaster Warren Browne. But North American EV factories will be capable of assembling more than 4.5 million vehicles, putting overall capacity utilization at just under 60%."
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:28 PM   #4029
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Double post
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Old 01-20-2023, 08:58 PM   #4030
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Model Y Safety award winner with both passive and active mechanisms:


And here is a video of assisted driving testing of a Model 3 vs the competitors and the Model 3 getting a perfect score with only vision. The other cars have radar:

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Old 01-21-2023, 10:03 PM   #4031
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A fun comparison.


For context: SuperfastMatt is an ex Tesla design engineer & prototype manager.
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Old 01-24-2023, 09:58 PM   #4032
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more public beta testing
Another Tesla Semi was spotted apparently broken down on the side of the road
Several have been spotted, apparently broken down
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/01/21/...e-of-the-road/

-Images of another Tesla Semi on the side of the road are making the rounds on Twitter.
-Since deliveries started in December, drivers have been spotting disabled Tesla Semis.
-Investors aren't worried yet, Wedbush analyst says.
Quote:
Word of another Tesla Semi that appears to be broken down on the side of the road is making the rounds on Twitter.

Since Tesla started delivering its long-awaited Class 8 electric truck to customers last month, several of the vehicles have been spotted on the side of the road, apparently broken down. One PepsiCo Tesla was seen getting towed by another truck.

The sightings have called into question the reliability of Tesla's new electric semi, which started production at the company's Nevada manufacturing facility in October after years of delays. The truck was originally supposed to start production in 2019.*

Yet another apparently stranded Tesla Semi was making the rounds on Twitter Thursday. The video, originally shared on TikTok, appears to be from earlier this month in Modesto, California.*

It's not an encouraging sign for investors already worried about the serious economic headwinds Tesla faces this year, but alarm bells aren't going off quite yet, said Wedbush analyst Dan Ives.

"These are not the images and sights you want to see," Ives said. "But no red flags yet. What will be important to see is how they handle it. Quality control is very important."

Tesla is known for working out kinks after its vehicles make it into customer's hands via over-the-air updates. But the company has had varying degrees of success with this strategy, and faces a federal probe into the self-driving software it updates that way.

Tesla first introduced a Class 8 prototype in 2017, initially setting a production date of December 2019. The program was led by former Daimler executive Jerome Guillen, who left the company in 2021. Following Guillen's departure and a series of supply chain issues, Tesla pushed back the start of Semi production to 2022.

The delays haven't stopped major companies from placing orders for the electric truck. Among the Tesla Semi's biggest pre-order names are Anheuser-Busch, Walmart, UPS, and PepsiCo, which was the first company to take deliveries in December.
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Old 01-24-2023, 10:36 PM   #4033
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
more public beta testing
Try harder


https://mobile.twitter.com/GailAlfarATX/status/1618055921745432576

https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1618016066504118272
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Old 01-26-2023, 01:42 PM   #4034
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Great Q4 for Tesla. This year the projected profit is more than what GM and Ford are projecting . It is amazing what this company has become after many thought it would fail. Now with $22B in earning 4-5% and no debt.

It seems that we will the the Cybertruck this year and we only have the Roadster to go.
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Old 02-03-2023, 08:36 PM   #4035
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Old 02-11-2023, 08:38 PM   #4036
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This guys was really critical of Tesla. How times have changed.

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Old 03-19-2023, 10:45 PM   #4037
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Tesla hit with 'right to repair' antitrust class actions
Harley-Davidson, John Deere and other automakers have faced similar accusations
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/15/...tion-lawsuits/
Quote:
Tesla has been sued in a pair of proposed antitrust class actions accusing the company of unlawfully curbing competition for maintenance and replacement parts for its electric vehicles, forcing owners to pay more and wait longer for repair services.

The lawsuits, filed on Tuesday and Wednesday in federal court in San Francisco, allege that Tesla designed its electric vehicles, warranties and repair policies to discourage owners and lessees from using independent shops outside of Tesla's control.

"Tesla needs to open up its ecosystem and allow competition for the servicing of Tesla [vehicles] and sales of parts," said plaintiffs lawyer Matthew Ruan of Freed Kanner London & Millen, who filed one of the proposed class actions.

A representative from Austin, Texas-based Tesla did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment. Tesla defense counsel have not yet made an appearance in the cases.

The proposed class in both cases would include anyone who has paid Tesla for repairs or parts since March 2019.

Each complaint was filed on behalf of a California resident, and neither lawsuit specified a damages amount. Ruan said the potential class includes hundreds of thousands of Tesla owners and lessees, so damages could total hundreds of millions of dollars.

Lawyers from McCune Law Group, which filed a similar class action complaint on Wednesday, did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.

Tesla, the world's most valuable automaker, recorded revenue of $24.32 billion for the fourth quarter. The company delivered 405,278 vehicles in the quarter.

Tesla joins other major vehicle makers facing "right to repair" antitrust litigation over alleged exclusionary conduct.

A group of cases against Harley-Davidson Motor Co Group LLC were recently consolidated in Wisconsin federal court, and Deere & Co, the world's largest farm equipment maker, is defending against allegations in federal district court in Chicago. Both companies have denied claims.

The U.S. Federal Trade Commission in 2021 issued a policy statement that said the agency would make it a priority to address manufacturer restrictions on repairs and parts.

Tesla's alleged restraints on service and repair, according to the new lawsuits, caused "exorbitant wait times" for drivers who otherwise would have gone to an independent repair shop.

The lawsuits call for Tesla's repair services and parts monopoly to be "dismantled" and for the company to be ordered to make its repair manuals and diagnostic tools "available to individuals and independent repair shops at a reasonable cost."

The cases are Virginia Lambrix v Tesla Inc, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California, No. 3:23-cv-01145; and Robert Orendian v. Tesla, No. 3:23-cv-01157.
building his own town now in TX, should be a great place to live.....FREEDOM!!!

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Old 03-20-2023, 05:08 PM   #4038
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well this probably won't help, Exhibit #276B in the prosecutions evidence list
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/
Quote:
Battery packs can cost tens of thousands of dollars and represent up to 50% of an EV's price tag, often making it uneconomical to replace them.

While some automakers like Ford Motor Co and General Motors Co said they have made battery packs easier to repair, Tesla Inc has taken the opposite tack with its Texas-built Model Y, whose new structural battery pack has been described by experts as having "zero repairability."

Tesla did not respond to a request for comment.
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Old 03-20-2023, 07:03 PM   #4039
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Had to triple check the date of this post. Service manual and diagnostic software tools have been available for years. Hell I just used it last month to solve a rattle in my rear hatch lid.

https://service.tesla.com/service-manuals

Structural battery pack is replaceable, but also they are targeting a 1 million mile drivetrain.

Tesla should have replied with a poo emoji when requested to comment.
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Old 03-20-2023, 07:03 PM   #4040
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Had to triple check the date of this post. Service manual and diagnostic software tools have been available for years. Hell I just used it last month to solve a rattle in my rear hatch lid.

https://service.tesla.com/service-manuals

Structural battery pack is replaceable, but also they are targeting a 1 million mile drivetrain.

Tesla should have replied with a poo emoji when requested to comment.
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Old 03-21-2023, 12:55 AM   #4041
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
well this probably won't help, Exhibit #276B in the prosecutions evidence list
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/
"We care about our planet and want to create a vehicle and company environmentally focused."

Also

"**** you and being able to repair our battery packs thus using up more of earths resources and pollution for manufacturing because profits bitch!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by legav05 View Post
Had to triple check the date of this post. Service manual and diagnostic software tools have been available for years. Hell I just used it last month to solve a rattle in my rear hatch lid.

https://service.tesla.com/service-manuals

Structural battery pack is replaceable, but also they are targeting a 1 million mile drivetrain.

Tesla should have replied with a poo emoji when requested to comment.
Uh, replaceable is not the same as repairable. You might want to read the article again. Their 1 million mile drivetrain is as laughable as their target for full autonomous self driving taxies.
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Old 03-21-2023, 07:50 AM   #4042
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Come on now be honest, you all didn't honestly believe any of the marketing BS that has been flowing out of Tesla corporate &/or Ole Musky did you?

-"Vegan" Leather? synthetic leather is cheaper than real leather.
-"minimalist" interior design? a centralized touch screen is cheaper than running/routing wires to physical switches/controls around the cabin.

Across the board it's been about minimizing costs & maximizing profit, so even though a repairable pack would be more advantageous for the end user/owner, environment, etc. Tesla is going to choose the cheapest manufacturing option every time.

Example of a Mach-E battery pack, which is designed to be repaired with eight replaceable modules (OSHA please don't look).


Obviously Tesla packs have been opened, modified, and had groups of cells replaced by individuals (which is what a pack repair entails, replacing a module/group of cells); and it's clear they were not designed with repair in mind see RichRebuilds, Superfastmatt and others on YouTube for examples.

SuperfastMatt Tesla pack teardown/modification for a vintage Jag retrofit:

Last edited by Sid03SVT; 03-21-2023 at 08:01 AM. Reason: fix link
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Old 03-21-2023, 08:18 AM   #4043
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"We care about our planet and want to create a vehicle and company environmentally focused."

Also

"**** you and being able to repair our battery packs thus using up more of earths resources and pollution for manufacturing because profits bitch!"


Uh, replaceable is not the same as repairable. You might want to read the article again. Their 1 million mile drivetrain is as laughable as their target for full autonomous self driving taxies.
Why is a 1 million mile drivetrain laughable? The Model 3 powertrain is already dyno tested to 1M miles.

The structural pack is not repairable but it is recyclable; all the cells are held together via an adhesive foam. Individual cell can be also removed for other uses. The current battery pack which have modules are not really reparable by third parties even after they tried. Rich Rebuilds gave up on repairing packs because of the way that BMS works, his "repairs" didn't last and the packs had premature failures.
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Old 03-21-2023, 10:19 AM   #4044
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Laughing for the same reason they were laughing in 2012 that electric cars could actually work, nothing changes. I'd say wait until they learn that the new stronger cell canisters and tabless thermal transfer contain single cell failures way better than the old 18650 design, but that would clearly be useless.

Having a car carry around hundreds of pounds of extra mass over 1 million miles vs just throw the whole thing in the recycler where 99.9% of materials comes back into brand new cells literally as good as new. Makes perfect sense. When is the last time anyone tore down their 12V lead acid battery "for repair"? Right, no one does that here. You could even think by analogy and win here, although think is the key word.

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/
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Old 03-21-2023, 10:20 AM   #4045
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Laughing for the same reason they were laughing in 2012 that electric cars could actually work, nothing changes. I'd say wait until they learn that the new stronger cell canisters and tabless thermal transfer contain single cell failures way better than the old 18650 design, but that would clearly be useless.

Having a car carry around hundreds of pounds of extra mass over 1 million miles vs just throw the whole thing in the recycler where 99.9% of materials comes back into brand new cells literally as good as new. Makes perfect sense. When is the last time anyone tore down their 12V lead acid battery "for repair"? Right, no one does that here. You could even think by analogy and win here, although think is the key word.

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/
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Old 03-21-2023, 10:42 AM   #4046
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Originally Posted by legav05 View Post
Laughing for the same reason they were laughing in 2012 that electric cars could actually work, nothing changes. I'd say wait until they learn that the new stronger cell canisters and tabless thermal transfer contain single cell failures way better than the old 18650 design, but that would clearly be useless.

Having a car carry around hundreds of pounds of extra mass over 1 million miles vs just throw the whole thing in the recycler where 99.9% of materials comes back into brand new cells literally as good as new. Makes perfect sense. When is the last time anyone tore down their 12V lead acid battery "for repair"? Right, no one does that here. You could even think by analogy and win here, although think is the key word.

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/
99.9% is a wonderfully fun lie to spread. Batteries of 7 years ago will never make it into a new car today as cells are changing yearly in makeup, form factor and chemical composition. Cell technology is rapidly changing, which makes older cells and the methods to recycle them efficiently obsolete. The rapidly changing battery landscape and proprietary designs will stifle the ability to recycle batteries quickly for a long time. Currently, the battery recycling is a hugely expensive labor and energy intensive operation. As crash restrictions get more strict (as they always do) this will get even worse and make recycling even harder.

All of this is growing pains which are to be expected, but EV have warts like every other transportation option. Rather than ignore them or lie about them, just embrace them and make the choice that suits your lifestyle.
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Old 03-21-2023, 12:15 PM   #4047
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Cell technology is rapidly changing, which makes older cells and the methods to recycle them efficiently obsolete.
Speaking of lies. Yeah this transition from NMC/NCA to NMC/NCA with less cobalt has over 100% "efficiency" given one cell's worth of cobalt makes many cells. Regardless this is for all the high energy density applications like long range trucks. The bulk of storage will be lithium iron phosphate. Literally the most abundant materials on earth.

You have a choice to make and it's not the choice you think it is. It's not between gasoline and electric. It's between a clean world of super abundance in energy and transportation, versus a totalitarian nightmare climate lockdown and austerity. You pick. However I suggest you stop arguing for the latter. Choose Elon over Greta.
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Old 03-21-2023, 01:03 PM   #4048
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Lithium is being phased out as well from what I am reading. Nothing in battery world is standing still man, which you know. A CELL as we know it, will be phased out eventually. Interesting note on what you said, though, but the long term solution will probably NOT be batteries at all.

We have a world of clean energy now with superabundance. We have seen that. I choose neither Elon (PT Barnum) or Greta (propped up pawn). I choose myself over any media driven idol.

Keep in mind climate alarmists have been wrong 100% of the time on every major 'disaster' in the last 50 years. Climate change is no difference. So any drastic mandated change based on this fallacy is also wrong.

I like choice. Do not mandate anything. Let people buy what they want for whatever reason(s) that matter to them without the governments of the world putting the fingers on the scales.

The recyclability of batteries is vastly overblown with 'what we will do' dreams and 'what we strive to do' promises. The reality is not that. Not yet.
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Old 03-21-2023, 03:05 PM   #4049
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Lithium is being phased out as well from what I am reading. Nothing in battery world is standing still man, which you know. A CELL as we know it, will be phased out eventually. Interesting note on what you said, though, but the long term solution will probably NOT be batteries at all.
Yeah man, the future is carburetors that work on water.

Quote:
We have a world of clean energy now with superabundance. We have seen that. I choose neither Elon (PT Barnum) or Greta (propped up pawn). I choose myself over any media driven idol.
That's what I thought. This is heading up to a FAFO moment.

Quote:
Keep in mind climate alarmists have been wrong 100% of the time on every major 'disaster' in the last 50 years. Climate change is no difference. So any drastic mandated change based on this fallacy is also wrong.
They're going to win, and you're helping.

Quote:
I like choice. Do not mandate anything. Let people buy what they want for whatever reason(s) that matter to them without the governments of the world putting the fingers on the scales.
If you don't want mandates, make a better decision now, while you can.
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Old 03-21-2023, 04:50 PM   #4050
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Yeah man, the future is carburetors that work on water.

That's what I thought. This is heading up to a FAFO moment.



They're going to win, and you're helping.

If you don't want mandates, make a better decision now, while you can.
I was going to suggest you do the same. Those in glass houses man...
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