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Old 02-13-2020, 11:37 AM   #51
SoapBox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteZombie View Post
What's you take on an RA1 at full depth on a dry day under a(my) 3800lb car? Chunk city?
I've always heard great things, but that full depth chunking could be an issue under a heavier car?
Because of that, I've continued to steer away from the temptation to try them, and instead go with whatever 2nd tier 200tw cheapster around $150ea in 255/40/17, a la Falken 615k+, Maxxis VR1, Kumho XS, which have all treated me quite well.

I'm tempted to try something like the Toyo R888R, at $200 ea in 255/40/17, but the fear of having to drive something like that in the rain at a wet track day at the end of the season when it's basically a slick still spooks me a little.
Heaviest thing I've run them on is 3300 lbs. I didn't really chunk them... I'd say the left front "smeared" a bit on the first day, maybe a bit of what you'd typically call chunking, but they do clean themselves up as you use them. They are noticeably a little squirmy at full depth.

At their cost, I hate to shave them...so I generally just heat cycle them a few times on the road, maybe use them for a semi-wet session, and then treat them as normal.

If you're not running into quick over-heating issues on your favorite 200s, they're probably not a big reason to spend that much more on RA1s. I've just aseen so much of a dropoff after 4-5 laps on most 200s. The first couple laps on those is probably comparable to the RA1 in terms of grip.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Heaviest thing I've run them on is 3300 lbs. I didn't really chunk them... I'd say the left front "smeared" a bit on the first day, maybe a bit of what you'd typically call chunking, but they do clean themselves up as you use them. They are noticeably a little squirmy at full depth.

At their cost, I hate to shave them...so I generally just heat cycle them a few times on the road, maybe use them for a semi-wet session, and then treat them as normal.

If you're not running into quick over-heating issues on your favorite 200s, they're probably not a big reason to spend that much more on RA1s. I've just aseen so much of a dropoff after 4-5 laps on most 200s. The first couple laps on those is probably comparable to the RA1 in terms of grip.
Gotcha.

I haven't had a 200tw tire on this car yet that didn't start to fall off after 10 minutes or so when driven at or near the limit. They are a little undersized for the size and weight of the car, but 255's save me $50 a corner over 275's. I guess I've just gotten used to it and adjusted accordingly. I typically put down my fastest laps mid session, once I'm feeling warmed up and as the tires are just starting starting to fall off. Not setting any records regardless, haha.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:49 PM   #53
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Something to consider for the beginner and probably even intermediate track day driver is true track tires don't come up to temp until about 180 F. A lot of 200TW stuff is in the 120-140 range for temp and falls off around 180-200. So when your 200TW tire is starting to feel greasy is where the track tire would be coming up.

Grip generates grip, so there's some overlap because you can push an R comp past a 200TW, but having done a few track days on spec miata tires I can tell you even pushing the car it took about 2 laps for them to come into their own. After that you really have to be doing stupid stuff to over heat those.

Conversely, a 225 Rival S 1.5 on the same miata didn't fall off until after about 4-5 hard laps of open track. A RE71R took about 2.5-3 laps to fall off.

The best option is to actually get on track and start taking notes then comparing it to others data. Since some tires are known to be better when kept cooler and some warmer you can extrapolate what tire will suit you best.

Personally, on an actual track rat I'd likely run the Hankook RS4. On an occasional track car that I also DD I'd run a Conti ECS. If DD isn't a concern and it's just for fun and occasional track then I'd pick something like the Rival S. The Hankook is great and wears well, but isn't good in rain. The Conti is great in rain, does ok on track (gives up about 2-3 seconds a lap) and still lasts a while. The Rival is all out grip, not the greatest in rain, and wears quicker but will be a tad more fun than the other two for spirited drives or the occasional track session.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
The R888's (100 UT) and RRs (40 UT, essentially a slick) are R-Comp track tires, not 200 street tires. Over a session, they are going to be much more consistent and much faster (particularly the RRs) than the rest of those 200 tw street tires.

This thread should differentiate between the max performance summer tires being mentioned and the actual R-Comps.
FWIW the treadwear number isn't a global standard and each manufacturer assigns it on their own. The Pilot Sport Cup 2 is essentially an R-comp and carries a 180 treadwear rating. And I'll try to remember to find the tire discussion over on Rennlist, but some Porsche folks did some back-to-back testing and found the 'stone RE-71R to be a stickier, faster tire than an NT-01 or an R888.


But with most folks not knowing or finding an answer without doing their own testing, I do agree. If it's a discussion about 200 treadwear street tires then leave the r-comps out of it.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:30 PM   #55
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Is "R-compound" defined any more precisely than treadwear?
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Old 02-16-2020, 01:10 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Stealing your list...

For most people every tire on this list, except the Hoosier, is going to get them nearly the exact same lap time... So buy whichever is cheapest in the sizes you need and go out and have fun.
No problem.

+1 exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
The R888's (100 UT) and RRs (40 UT, essentially a slick) are R-Comp track tires, not 200 street tires... This thread should differentiate between the max performance summer tires being mentioned and the actual R-Comps.
The list was a list of common trackday tires (200 to Slicks). The OP asked for suggestions for HPDE tires in general, the common consensuses is go with a 200AA. R Comps shouldn't be left out of the discussion.

Biggest drawbacks of R Comps are: can't drive back and forth to a HPDE & rain will end your day.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:05 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by De36 View Post
The list was a list of common trackday tires (200 to Slicks). The OP asked for suggestions for HPDE tires in general, the common consensuses is go with a 200AA. R Comps shouldn't be left out of the discussion.
Probably should be split up into two separate lists, R-comps and non-Rcomps.


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Old 03-07-2020, 12:20 PM   #58
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Biggest drawbacks of R Comps are: can't drive back and forth to a HPDE & rain will end your day.
I've been driving to/from HPDEs on my R-comps for years. Why can't you do that? Most of the time I'm just going between the track and hotel, so 20 miles or so, but I've driven up to a couple hours on R-comps to get to HPDEs in the past. Going way back, I used Kumho Victoracers as street tires for a while because I got a free set.

And rain doesn't mean your day is done on R-comps, unless you're being overly cautious. Even in a 400rwhp CTS-V on R-comps you can go out, and you'll probably get more out of it from the driver training perspective. Rain can turn your ~185hp Subaru into a Z06 beater.

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 03-07-2020 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Crazy YT embed gibberish
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Old 03-09-2020, 01:16 PM   #59
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I've been driving to/from HPDEs on my R-comps for years. Why can't you do that?...

And rain doesn't mean your day is done on R-comps, unless you're being overly cautious. ...Rain can turn your ~185hp Subaru into a Z06 beater.
Haha!!! That's great. I meant legally, non-DOTs are not suppose to be used on pubic road.

True, most guy I know and run with have booth slicks & rain tires. Lol, yes rain can greatly change the event. I personally love the rain. Great videos btw!
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:02 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
I've been driving to/from HPDEs on my R-comps for years. Why can't you do that? Most of the time I'm just going between the track and hotel, so 20 miles or so, but I've driven up to a couple hours on R-comps to get to HPDEs in the past. Going way back, I used Kumho Victoracers as street tires for a while because I got a free set.

And rain doesn't mean your day is done on R-comps, unless you're being overly cautious. Even in a 400rwhp CTS-V on R-comps you can go out, and you'll probably get more out of it from the driver training perspective. Rain can turn your ~185hp Subaru into a Z06 beater.
Patrick, are you the driver in both those videos? I watched an older video on the same youtube channel with a CTSV in the dry at VIR and I was impressed with the cornering speeds and stability, especially in the climbing esses. Assuming that video was R comp tire as well?

What tires were in the Subaru in the rain? All Seasons?
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:42 AM   #61
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:50 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by De36 View Post
Haha!!! That's great. I meant legally, non-DOTs are not suppose to be used on pubic road.
Probably a semantics thing, but I've always considered the term "R-compounds" refers to the DOT-legal tires, while the generic term "slicks" would be used for non-DOTs. With that said, in the past I've used some Grand Am Continental take-offs and I've driven those on the street. Don't tell anyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteZombie View Post
Patrick, are you the driver in both those videos? I watched an older video on the same youtube channel with a CTSV in the dry at VIR and I was impressed with the cornering speeds and stability, especially in the climbing esses. Assuming that video was R comp tire as well?

What tires were in the Subaru in the rain? All Seasons?
Yes, both the videos I posted were me driving; "thepno95" on Youtube is me. The CTS-V video @ VIR would've been on R-comps of some sort, or perhaps the GAC take-offs mentioned above.

The Subaru in the rain video dates back to 2012. My recollection is that it started dry, then got gradually wetter. I stayed on my R-comps (Hankook Z214s, I think) for some sessions, and then when it started really raining I put on my street wheels/tires (Continental DW summer tires). I don't recall if the wet portion of the dry/wet comparison video was on the R-comps or the street tires.
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