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Old 12-06-2019, 12:43 PM   #51
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WTF happened to BMW? That is just awful!

As bad as the front end is, the rear is just hideous.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:58 PM   #52
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Different platform. I would expect the next M2 to look similar to the upcoming M3/M4 which could be good or bad considering some of the leaks we have seen.
The M2CS will look very similar to the M2C. The question is, will the standard M2 in the next redesign have the front bumper as this? Iím betting itís damn close.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:58 PM   #53
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WTF happened to BMW?
Nothing. Sales are up this year for them as they are a month away from becoming the #1 selling luxury brand for the first time in years.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:59 PM   #54
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WTF happened to BMW? That is just awful!

As bad as the front end is, the rear is just hideous.
The current CEO is a ****ing moron who just wants to pump out vehicles for the sake of revenue while destroying heritage.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:11 PM   #55
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The current CEO is a ****ing moron who just wants to pump out vehicles for the sake of revenue while destroying heritage.
Itís worked fine for Subaru. Pumping out high volume while quality tumbles. Itís what made Honda and Toyota shadows of what they used to be. Porsche is basically an SUV company now.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:24 PM   #56
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It's worked fine for Subaru. Pumping out high volume while quality tumbles. It's what made Honda and Toyota shadows of what they used to be. Porsche is basically an SUV company now.
This feels like something distantly related to gentrification. Not that I think gentrification should be banned, but I question the idiots that are behind it.

Gentrification: often rougher/poorer area somehow has a revival and develops awesome community and culture. Rich people notice this, and decide they want to live in that area. Rich people drive up cost of living due to frivolous spending, and drive out the people that made the culture what it was. The culture suffers, but rich people are happy with the fake feeling that they live in some cool cultural place.

Car buying gentrification: auto mfr makes cool cars with unique offerings and does simply okay. People get attracted to the brand because they want to be cool. They end up deciding "being cool" has too many sacrifices they don't want to make. Auto MFR produces more mundane garbage which the fake mother forkers buy up in droves because they still get to claim they own an "ultimate driving machine". Mfr loses soul and keeps producing mundane garbage in ever-increasing quantities.

Just accept that you're an NPC and buy from the actual appliance brands. Fork your fake image.

I think I've come to a conclusion: fake people wanting to feel like they are something they are not are the root cause of a lot of woes

Last edited by BeepBoop; 12-06-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:32 PM   #57
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Car buying LEASING gentrification:
Fixed to help make sense of it all.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:11 PM   #58
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Itís worked fine for Subaru. Pumping out high volume while quality tumbles. Itís what made Honda and Toyota shadows of what they used to be. Porsche is basically an SUV company now.
Name a major manufacturer that hasn't sold their soul to some extent for the sake of sales. All the Japanese companies pretty much have. Honda is probably the one that has gained the most back. Toyota's performance soul relies on other companies to build it for them.

GM continues to sell their soul, except for the Corvette and maybe Camaro. Ford does it and looking to do it with the Mustang brand. FCA is a mess and their merger with PSA could be a saving grace or a nightmare. But that said, Dodge might be the one that didn't completely sell out yet as they continue to sell RWD coupes and sedans with low tech big V8's.

BMW, Audi, MB have done it with their entry level FWD based models. VW is moving to be a mostly CUV company. Ferrari is going SUV, Lamborghini and Maserati have a SUV each.

Actually, Hyundai and Kia might be the ones that haven't sold their soul because they didn't have one. Or they just buy the talent from other companies.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:33 PM   #59
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Name a major manufacturer that hasn't sold their soul to some extent for the sake of sales.
Sold their soul by bastardizing their heritage? Or just sold their soul to the dollar? Big difference. Mazda hasn't sold their soul. They never bastardized the RX nameplate. They did the proper thing and killed it off until they can make something deserving of the title (if ever). They still make the miata as faithful as they ever have. They offer decidedly not-bland cars as far as handling characteristics go for appliances. I can't think of a single time in mazda's history where they preyed on the power of brand recognition to sell a vehicle, or where they drastically altered their formula, or did any kind of badge/image engineering.

No one is faulting BMW for making sedans, etc. We're faulting them for losing their way, needlessly segmenting their lineup, and diluting it with tons of crap like m-performance packages, while simultaneously going off the deepend with the kidney grill meme, reducing the actual driver feel and engagement of their cars, and having probably the worst feature-to-price point of any of the pseudo luxury brands.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:56 PM   #60
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Rather have an Accord Sports...
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:56 PM   #61
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Rather have an Accord Sports...
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:49 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
Sold their soul by bastardizing their heritage? Or just sold their soul to the dollar? Big difference. Mazda hasn't sold their soul. They never bastardized the RX nameplate. They did the proper thing and killed it off until they can make something deserving of the title (if ever). They still make the miata as faithful as they ever have. They offer decidedly not-bland cars as far as handling characteristics go for appliances. I can't think of a single time in mazda's history where they preyed on the power of brand recognition to sell a vehicle, or where they drastically altered their formula, or did any kind of badge/image engineering.

No one is faulting BMW for making sedans, etc. We're faulting them for losing their way, needlessly segmenting their lineup, and diluting it with tons of crap like m-performance packages, while simultaneously going off the deepend with the kidney grill meme, reducing the actual driver feel and engagement of their cars, and having probably the worst feature-to-price point of any of the pseudo luxury brands.
Mazda is probably one of the least offenders. They did have to give in to Ford buying stake in their company because of their financial problems but did keep much of their development. Their biggest offense is probably building the first gen CX-9 utilizing Ford chassis and drivetrain. Though, they are now utilizing the MX naming scheme for their new EV CUV, so hopefully it's not a start of a new trend.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:11 PM   #63
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I can't blame companies for deciding to make SUV's/CUV's because those sell better and make the most money. They should be doing things that make them more money and more profitable.

But that doesn't mean the designs on their cars have to suck. The design direction of that BMW is just atrocious. And I can't imagine it helps sales.

As far as Porsche, I don't care if they make SUVs. I don't ever intend on buying one. As long as they don't ditch the sports cars and ONLY make SUVs, I'm happy.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:57 PM   #64
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Itís worked fine for Subaru. Pumping out high volume while quality tumbles. Itís what made Honda and Toyota shadows of what they used to be. Porsche is basically an SUV company now.
Yeah, but those SUVís are ****ing sweet!
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:48 AM   #65
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Default Why The BMW M235i Gran Coupe A Good But Not A Great Small Sports Sedan

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You lost touch with the automotive world over the past few years, you might be baffled to learn that we now call four- or five-door cars coupes, just because of the shape of their roofline.

The trend dates back to 2004, when the original Mercedes-Benz CLS broke cover. Since then, the Ďcoupeí moniker has been used in almost every segment, even in the premium subcompact class by the Mercedes-Benz CLA and, more recently, the BMW 2-Series Gran Coupe.

Built on the same FWD-biased platform as the new 1-Series hatch, the 2-Series GC is topped by the M235i xDrive that borrows the oily bits from the sporty M135i. That may sound a bit confusing, but itís not. The confusing part is actually under the hood, as unlike previous-gen Ď35í cars, which came with inline-six engines, the new lineup makes do with four-cylinder turbo units.

On paper, the 2.0-liter turbo-four sounds very promising, with 301 horsepower and 332 lb-ft (450 Nm) of torque, offering a 0-60 mph (0-96 km/h) sprint time of 4.6 seconds and a top speed capped at 155 mph (250 km/h). However, no one will be blown away by the sound it makes and itís not a full-blown M model, but rather a warm one, with a matching price tag: $46,495 in the USA Ė only around $12,500 less than the rear-wheel drive M2 Competition, which has a 3.0-liter six-pot making 405 HP.

Telling the M235i GC apart from the rest of the lineup is easy. You only have to look at the sporty body kit, with lots of scoops and vents, larger side skirts, different wheels and tweaked rear end with the real exhaust pipes hidden by fake surrounds.

Inside, it offers bespoke sports seats, lots of gear and one of the best build qualities in the segment. The range-topping four-door is also more comfortable than the M135i hot hatch, so it should be the better choice in the long term. But would you actually want one in your life? The following video reviews could help you decide.
Preview
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:51 AM   #66
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The compact four-door BMW 2 Series Gran Coupe expands the brandís range even further

Verdict
4
Four-door coupes are becoming increasingly popular, and the 2 Series Gran Coupe is a welcome addition to BMWís burgeoning ranks, especially in 220d form. Using the companyís front-drive platform and potent four-cylinder diesel, the Gran Coupe does a good job of providing the 2 Series with an extra dose of style, strong dynamics and, for BMW, a generous level of equipment beside its most obvious rival from Mercedes, the CLA 220d. Itís also surprisingly spacious inside, considering the format.

Not long ago, the idea of a four-door coupe was something of an anomaly. But increasingly this formula is appealing to young, upwardly mobile types who more often than not havenít yet had kids. And the BMW 2 Series Gran Coupe is the very latest one, filing yet another niche in the German brandís ever-expanding model range.

Itís based on the regular front-wheel-drive platform of the new 1 Series and 2 Series, and adds an extra hit of style plus sharper but more refined driving dynamics, according to BMW, while also providing a bigger boot than its hatchback cousins.

In 220d form, as tested here, it costs from £31,355 and is powered by a 2.0-litre, four-cylinder turbodiesel engine that develops 187bhp and an impressive 400Nm of torque. Thatís enough to send the front-driven 220d from 0-62mph in a respectable 7.5 seconds and to a top speed of 146mph, while at the same time providing a theoretical 56.5mpg on the combined cycle and CO2 emissions 131g/km.

So that means the BMWís vital statistics are highly competitive beside the carís main rival, the Mercedes CLA 220d.

All Gran Coupe models come as standard in Sport trim, but for an additional £2,500 you can specify the M Sport trim, and thatís the car you see here. For this you get larger 18-inch M alloys (the standard Sport has 17s), BMWís Cockpit Pro system Ė which benefits from a bigger 10.25-inch central touchscreen display and the OS 7 version of BMWís iDrive system Ė Dakota leather upholstery rather than cloth, M Sport door sill finishes, extended interior lighting, an M Sport gearlever and various bits of M Sport body addenda, including a different front and rear bumper design.

Vitally, you also get BMWís M Sport steering and stiffer suspension, which means sharper responses not just at your fingertips but beneath your backside as well. So itís hardly surprising that BMW UK claims most buyers will go for the M Sport version. By comparison the Mercedes CLA 220d AMG Line costs £35,475 and comes with no more standard equipment than the BMW and only a whisker more performance, making the 220d M Sport look like decent value at £33,895.

The interior is much the same as the 1 Seriesí, and thereís nothing wrong with that. The main TFT instrument display is excellent and intuitive to use, the cabin design is typically driver-orientated, the Dakota leather of the M Sport we drove is high in quality and even quite pleasant on the nose. Itís certainly one of the most pleasant and agreeable cabins in this segment Ė everything simply looks and works as youíd expect it to.

In the back thereís just about enough room for a six-footer to sit behind another six-footer, plus a well shaped 430-litre boot that provides more space than you get in a 1 Series. In fact, the larger 3 Series only has a 50-litre advantage over the Gran Coupe when it comes to ultimate carrying capacity. On this evidence, then, thereís certainly enough going for the 2 Series to allow it to qualify as a sensible family car.

BMW says it has softened the Gran Coupeís chassis a touch to give the car a more refined drive when compared with the 1 Series, and thatís exactly how it feels on the road.

Itís not what youíd call soft, but the Gran Coupe does feel like it glides with more serenity than the regular hatchback, with arguably more feel through its steering and a good sense of balance mid-corner. If you werenít told, youíd never guess that it was front-wheel drive, such are the composure and refinement from the steering and suspension. The brakes are also strong and deliver good feel through the pedal.

The engine isnít the most tuneful, it must be said, but then turbodiesels rarely are. Instead itís an efficient, effective, refined and ultimately fairly soulless power unit, but one that suffers from almost no lag and delivers strong acceleration from as little as 1,800rpm. The gearbox is the same eight-speed ZF auto you get in anything from a 1 Series to an 8 Series, and in this case it works typically well, with smooth, effortless changes up and down the ratios.

If diesel isnít your thing, which is becoming an increasingly common theme among UK car buyers, a 218i is also available. It has a punchy 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo petrol that kicks out 138bhp. And above that sits the flagship M235i xDrive model that uses a 302bhp 2.0-litre turbo Ė the only model in the range that delivers a sub-five-second 0-62mph time.

Assuming you donít mind the looks Ė some people seem to like it, some donít, although the M Sport touches definitely lift it visually overall Ė there is much to like about BMWís latest offering.

The standout elements are the interior, the level of technology on offer, and the chassis. Where the overall package is let down is the engine, but the raw numbers and the performance it provides are hard to argue against. The Gran Coupe is a good car from BMW, but not a great one.

Key specs
Model: BMW 220d Gran Coupe M Sport
Price: £33,895
Engine: 2.0-litre 4cyl turbodiesel
Power/torque: 187bhp/400Nm
Transmission: Eight-speed auto, front-wheel drive

Need5
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:53 AM   #67
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From two post above is the video AutoExpress

https://youtu.be/uMCYUiKBV3U?list=PL...utd8rUZlYAwv8a
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:41 AM   #68
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Default 2020 BMW M235i xDrive Gran Coupe




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2020 BMW M235i Gran Coupe

he 2020 BMW M235i xDrive Gran Coupe was on the backfoot before it even hit the road. At its core, the M235 xDrive Gran Coupe goes against everything the BMW-faithful hold dear. For starters, it shares basic architecture with the X1 and X2 crossovers, which are front-wheel-drive platforms. For a brand that built its name on rear-wheel-drive sports sedans and coupes, anything other than that setup is sacrilegious to traditionalists. Even for those who don't care about the unsolicited opinions (or feelings) of staunch BMW enthusiasts, the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe still has a mountain to climb to prove it's worthy of an M badge.

As much as BMW tries to shy away from its famous former slogan "The Ultimate Driving Machine" - a line that defined the manufacturer for so long - the two became synonymous. Just like a tattoo of an ex's name crossed out, BMW is trying to move on but there's no ignoring its history.

Over the past decade and a half, BMW has moved further away from its straightforward driver-focused style. Each model line has swelled in size, gained weight and became increasingly cluttered in design. And at first glance, the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe is the epitome of BMW in 2020. It started life as a two-door model and was turned into a sedan. Then it was given a pinch of performance and a fistful of M badges. The overall design of the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe doesn't do itself any favors either.

Looking at it from the front, the proportions don't seem to match the rest of the car behind the A-pillar. Slowly, the X2 crossover genes make themselves known and you start to wonder if this is really a sport sedan at all.



2020 BMW M235i xDrive Gran Coupe interior


Once you slide in and buckle up, it's standard BMW fare: a mix of high-resolution displays, a touch screen, the iDrive dial and a few analog holdouts in tactile dials and buttons. Admittedly, it can be a bit overwhelming if you're not used to BMW interiors but it is easy enough to get accustomed.

Did BMW build M235i xDrive Gran Coupe to have a car with M badges in the $40,000-$50,000 range just for the sake of it? Not entirely.

If you ignore the overdesigned exterior, the cluttered cockpit, set the drive mode to Sport and get down to the business of driving, the DNA from BMWs of old outshine the modern distractions. Despite the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe weighing 3,602 lbs it feels light on its feet switching direction quickly from one corner to the next. Most importantly, it stays remarkably balanced mid-corner as long as you keep steady on the throttle.

Modern AWD systems, including BMW's xDrive with its limited-slip-differential, are mechanical wizardry. Getting on the gas too early with a traditional AWD system results in understeer and if you're really pushing it, you can blow through a bend in the road altogether. Combine the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe's balance, the AWD system's ability to manhandle 301 horsepower and the 332 ft-lbs that comes in at 1,750 rpm, and it feels like you're cheating physics powering through turns.

The engine pulls fantastically and is incredibly versatile in both the city and on back roads. However, when you do open it up, the sound leaves a lot to be desired. Knowing the M235i xDrive Gran Coupe gets power from a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder, I expected a raucous soundtrack. What I got instead was an exhaust note more akin to my neighbor loudly playing Gran Turismo in the next apartment over. It's muffled, digital, and its energy completely contradicts the verve of the handling.

I'm not the first person to accuse BMW of abusing the M logo to help sell cars, but there is a hint of that "Ultimate Driving Machine" heritage in the 2020 M235i xDrive Gran Coupe. It just happens to be buried under a few layers of design-by-comittee contributions. And just like that crossed-out, hidden tattoo, you just have to know where to look.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:39 AM   #69
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Good grief. I want to vomit.
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Old 04-26-2020, 02:48 PM   #70
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Stock market bubble side effects = extremely overpriced luxury sports vehicles.

This will probably be a collector's item someday cause nobody bought it new.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:56 PM   #71
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I'm sure she has a great personality.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:28 PM   #72
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I wonder how horrible the M2 is going look.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:30 AM   #73
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I wonder how horrible the M2 is going look.
Wait, they're not going to build an M2 on that platform, are they?

Assuming not, much of the proportions of this car are dictated by the FWD platform it's on. While they might share certain design cues, I don't necessarily think a future longitudinal engine/RWD M2 will look too much like the 2 series.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:31 AM   #74
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Wait, they're not going to build an M2 on that platform, are they?

Assuming not, much of the proportions of this car are dictated by the FWD platform it's on. While they might share certain design cues, I don't necessarily think a future longitudinal engine/RWD M2 will look too much like the 2 series.
Guess it would be same for G87. Instead of using front-drive UKL platform, like the rest of the 2 Series range, the two-door 2 Series Coupe is set to be based on the same CLAR platform as the 3 Series.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:43 AM   #75
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I opened this thread an it took me to the last post.

I scroll up to see the front picture, and read the comments. Its not that bad.
Keep scrolling up and see the ass picture. OMG, kill it!!
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