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Old 07-24-2019, 01:49 AM   #26
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That's a step beyond the trick that the 200 series Land Cruiser can do, which is to drag its inside back wheel in tight off-road corners so as to decrease the turning radius.
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:28 AM   #27
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Default Amazon Buys In to Rivian Electric-Truck Startup,

Amazon Buys In to Rivian Electric-Truck Startup, Has Reportedly Ordered 100,000 Delivery Vans.

The investment totals $700 million, and Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said that the delivery vans could hit public roads by 2021.


Quote:
Tech giant Amazon is leading an investment of $700 million into Rivian, an EV startup that unveiled its first vehicles late last year, Automotive News reported.

Rivian plans to start producing the all-electric R1T pickup truck and R1S SUV at a plant in Normal, Illinois, starting in 2020.

Deliveries of the first product, the pickup, are expected at the end of next year.

UPDATE 9/19/19: Amazon has placed an order for 100,000 Rivian electric delivery vans, according to a reporter on Twitter. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos reportedly said that prototype vans may arrive as soon as 2020, with the first vans hitting public roads in 2021 and all 100,000 in service by 2024.

RED ALERT: Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos says the company has "just placed an order for 100,000 electric delivery vans" from Michigan-based start-up Rivian.

— Nathan Bomey (@NathanBomey) September 19, 2019
Rivian's ambitious plans just got a boost in legitimacy thanks to a major investment led by Amazon. The $700 million in funding does not include money from General Motors, as was previously rumored; according to Automotive News, it does also involve ALJ, a Saudi company that had previously invested in Rivian.


Amazon Not Taking Blame for Delivery Crashes
The company is not sharing many details about the investment for now. Rivian founder R.J. Scaringe said in a statement, "This investment is an important milestone for Rivian and the shift to sustainable mobility."

The current road map for Rivian includes the launch of two all-electric models, both of which were unveiled at the 2018 Los Angeles auto show. The R1T pickup truck will be first, with its launch expected in late 2020, and the R1s SUV will follow. Both use a dedicated electric platform with a large battery pack mounted under the floor. Range estimates start at around 230 miles and go up to 400 miles for the largest, 180.0-kWh battery-pack option. All-wheel drive is standard, and the company claims a towing capacity of 11,000 pounds for the R1T and 7716 pounds for the R1S.

Rivian has announced that production will begin next year at its facility in Normal, Illinois—a plant previously occupied by Mitsubishi. The company hasn't made announcements about how it plans to sell vehicles, whether it be through a dealer network or through a direct-sales model like Tesla. Stay tuned for more to come from Rivian as we learn about what this new car company plans to do with all this newfound cash.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-investment/
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:10 PM   #28
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This thread also needs an article about The Long Way Up.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/l...avison-rivian/

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Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman's Long Way Up may be on Harley Livewires

There are photos from Argentina of a pair of adventure-spec Livewires alongside some Rivian R1Ts and other support vehicles and we're almost too excited.

BY KYLE HYATT SEPTEMBER 12, 2019 6:26 PM PDT

Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman pretty much ignited the world's passion for the idea of adventure touring on a motorcycle with their 2004 series Long Way Round which saw the pair set off from London to circumnavigate the globe on a couple of BMW R1150GS'.

Since that time, the two have produced one more documentary series called Long Way Down where they traveled, again on BMWs, from John O'Groats in Scotland to Capetown, South Africa. That was in 2007, and since then, both Boorman and McGregor have been talking about undertaking a ride from South America to Los Angeles, California.

Well, guess what nerds? It's finally freaking happening and even cooler, the pair are (probably) doing it on electric motorcycles -- Harley-Davidson Livewires if you can believe it -- which were spotted initially by the folks at Autoblog Argentina and reported on Monday by RideApart. Even cooler is the fact that their support vehicles include Rivian R1T pickup trucks -- something that would lead us to believe that the series is being produced for Amazon.

From the photos, the adventure-ready Livewires look like they've gotten some mods to survive the trip -- but not as many as I would have initially guessed. Specifically, we can see a skid plate, a suspension lift, provisions for carrying luggage, spoked wheels and handguards.

The Livewire might seem like an unlikely choice on the surface with its combined range of just 95 miles, but when you consider that by traveling off-road, the pair's average speeds will be down, they're likely to get much more range from the bikes. Plus with their DC fast-charging capability and relatively dinky battery size, it's possible that the Rivians could be used to charge the Harleys, especially if the Rivians are packing the rumored super-sized battery packs that it claims are good for 400 miles of range.


Now, while Boorman confirmed the trip was happening and a bunch of vehicles have been spotted in Tierra Del Fuego, it hasn't explicitly been confirmed that these are the vehicles they'd be taking, but the coincidence is a little too big to ignore.

Harley-Davidson, Rivian and Charley Boorman's people did not immediately respond to Roadshow's request for comment.
Pics here: https://autoblog.com.ar/2019/09/06/l...desde-ushuaia/




The Long Way Round and Long Way Down were huge among motorcycle gearheads the world over.. this series has the potential to make significant waves in the consumer ICE vehicle market.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:24 PM   #29
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:25 AM   #30
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The problem with the live wire for this particular use (and any one who does distance) is the 146 mile city range and 95 mile "combined stop and go and highway" range, which means high speed cruising range is probably more like 70 miles. I used to stop every 150 miles on my sport bikes to refuel and stretch, but it took minutes; sub-100 mile stops when you have to hang out for 40 minutes to get to 80% on a fast charger sounds abysmal.

City commuter? I guess, but at $30k? I'll just cage it, thanks.

Bikes are cheap, quick, and *fuel efficient (*for how quick they are); this thing is not.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:55 PM   #31
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I really like the idea of the Rivian R1S. It's tempting with a range of 400 miles, vehicle-to-vehicle charging, and auxillary batteries to extend the range for long road trips and going off-grid. I could easily see it as a replacement for our Jeep Wrangler JKUR if it wasn't for the price.. the 410 mile model will be "under $90,000". Even the base model R1S starts at $72,500. That's Land Rover level pricing.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:39 PM   #32
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These look 100x better than the Tesla... Reminds me of an electric Ridgeline
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Exclusive Look at Rivian’s ELECTRIC Truck & SUV + Chatting With CEO RJ Scaringe! - YouTube

I really like the idea of the Rivian R1S. It's tempting with a range of 400 miles, vehicle-to-vehicle charging, and auxillary batteries to extend the range for long road trips and going off-grid. I could easily see it as a replacement for our Jeep Wrangler JKUR if it wasn't for the price.. the 410 mile model will be "under $90,000". Even the base model R1S starts at $72,500. That's Land Rover level pricing.
Pricing doesn’t matter. Tesla was a no name brand selling cars for top line BMW / Mercedes and Audi pricing. I could see the **** boys and house wives dumping their rovers for these.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:53 PM   #34
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^^^ you are so right.. .and if that 400 miles number is true... that number is so huge it kind of makes range anxiety a thing of the past....

I always thought a truck or van or would be the best implementation of the EV.

I can see another advantage of it in this format. If all 4 wheels have motors, a drive train failure would have to be at all 4 wheels to totally strand you. Some off road guys may care about that.

The brand is starting right it seems.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:11 PM   #35
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The question is how many people will pay $90k for a 400 mile range and then proceed to take their $90k vehicle far enough off road to where you would normally worry about that kind of thing. Even most Wranglers become "mall crawlers"

I have no doubt that people will pay it.. it's just a very steep entry fee. An average consumer won't be able to afford it at that price point. I think EVs will need to approach the 350-400 mile range for $35-40k (~$100/mile) before the masses really start to consider the switch.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The question is how many people will pay $90k for a 400 mile range and then proceed to take their $90k vehicle far enough off road to where you would normally worry about that kind of thing. Even most Wranglers become "mall crawlers"

I have no doubt that people will pay it.. it's just a very steep entry fee. An average consumer won't be able to afford it at that price point. I think EVs will need to approach the 350-400 mile range for $35-40k (~$100/mile) before the masses really start to consider the switch.
How many people use the following for off road:
G Wagen
Range Rovers
Land Rovers


All of this hit $10”k easily, G Wagen can be $200k vehicles. The amount of people that “off road” are so few and far between. Not to mention, damn near none of them would go far enough out to worry about not getting back. Where in the world are people going several hundred to 300 miles off road?

This is obviously not meant for the mass consumer butter an upper end clientele. We’ve already beat the “what consumers need for mass switch” dead horse over and over again. Hell, their is a thread dedicated to just that.

I don’t see what point you’re trying to make about people not buying these. There’s a metric **** ton of people out there who don’t blink at spending $70k - $100k on a vehicle. All you need is a market poop big enough to sustain profitable business.

****, Tesla was pumping out $70k - $100k vehicles for years and growing year over year exponentially. Granted the model S and X are now in a year over year decline but so do most models when they haven’t had a refresh in 8+ years.

You’re in the Bay Area. People are rolling $100k cars all the time. Hell, I probably see 10 or so $80k+ Land Rovers, a couple G Wagen, more than I can count Porsche Cayenne, $70k + F350 powerstroke trucks, etc. The money is there and most people who buy off-road capable trucks never take them off road.
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:10 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
I don’t see what point you’re trying to make about people not buying these.

Where in the world are people going several hundred to 300 miles off road?

The money is there and most people who buy off-road capable trucks never take them off road
My comments were directed towards scrappydo's range anxiety and off roading comments..

I won't comment on Rivian's price anymore since it clearly irritates you. I'll leave it at saying what I originally said.. that I'm personally not willing to spend that much just to get in an EV with 400 miles of range. I'm clearly not Rivian's target consumer despite enjoying the outdoors lifestyle that they're promoting... and likely neither are the other Jeep, Subaru or Toyota owners that I most commonly cross paths with outdoors.

I never said that people wont buy these.. I literally said "I have no doubt that people will pay it." But there's a reason the Tesla Model 3 exists now.. For an average consumer, why spend $70k+ on a Tesla Model S with a 370 mile range when you can spend $40k on a Model 3 with a 310 mile range and still get the Tesla name and appearance?

Notice that I said going off grid in my original post. There are a lot of remote places that I go where having a 300+ mile range is desirable and will make the trip much more enjoyable. That's why I carry a spare fuel reserve just in case. It's not just about how far off road I go, it's:
  • How far from a charging station am I going? There are plenty of places that I go that are already in remote areas (without cell reception) before even going off-road.
  • How many days will I be gone for? Usually at least 3+ days of camping and driving on trails. This means more range for exploring trails, running the AC/heater, and more accessory power needed for powering lights, camp supplies and charging other accessories. And then of course having enough charge to get back to the closest charging station afterwards.
Rivian is working on addressing these concerns with vehicle-to-vehicle charging and auxillary batteries. But as we both pointed out, how many people will take a car this expensive off road and what are the chances of seeing another that's willing to share their charge with you?

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-28-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 09-28-2019, 11:48 AM   #38
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I think you guys are both right. The Rivian is not aimed at the outdoor life crowd and by that I mean people who actually go out doors for real. They are aimed at the people who want to look like they are outdoorsy people. And their are a TON of them. These are the types who buy a land rover to do the same kind of off roading a Crosstrek could do in its sleep. Like a gravel road or maybe a sandy parking lot.

They are aiming for the Land Rover crowd with these vehicles and I think that is probably smart as sedan sales are slacking and will continue to do so. But here is the rub. Land rover vehicles are sublimely luxurious and lets face it, they are damn capable (when they are working). G wagons, the same thing. They are a darn nice place to spend time.

they will get some sales with the form factor for sure... no doubt. they need to start selling these and rolling them out. To be the first EV truck on the road is critical. Get out first and snag the early adopters.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:32 PM   #39
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Exactly, plenty of people like the idea of appearing rugged and outdoorsy.. or being capable of going off road if so desired. Just look at how the roof top tent market exploded recently.. and how well Jeep's Wrangler sales increased once they released the 4-door unlimited model.. and the small percentage of people that even take those off road.

Just like with Tesla, wealthier people will spend the money to be the first with a novel, premium EV. Rivian will have their own niche for a while. Tesla is aiming to make a cheaper truck starting at $50k. Ford will likely start cheaper as well and people are more familiar with the Ford name, but they've invested in Rivian and will be using their skateboard chassis so that's a wash.

I'm sure that Rivian will release a more affordable option down the road once sales begin to slow after everyone that's willing to spend that kind of money has.. just like Tesla did with the Model 3.

I really like the product that Rivian is promoting, but am bummed that they're pricing outside of the range that most true outdoor people will spend. For example, they gave professional climber Alex Honnold a Rivian R1T to promote. But most climbers either lack the financial resources or aren't willing to invest that kind of money into a material item out of principal. If you've watched Alex's documentary "Free Solo", you'll see that he purchases one of the smallest, cheapest refrigerators for his house because it's "perfectly adequate" despite being a millionaire. But I can't blame Rivian, it's smart marketing that will help sell cars.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-28-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:39 PM   #40
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If I could get a 400 mile per charge truck that looks good and adequately loaded like my XLT F150 for around $50k, sign me the **** up. I put on between 25-30k miles a year for work and with the new tax bill that proper ****ed me, I can no longer write off the fuel expenses, oil changes, etc. Throwing half down on $50k truck that’s EV would pay itself back with the fuel expenses not being needed. Hopefully EV tax credits are still going during that time, would make for a nice chunk down. I’m not sure if these would qualify as “Heavy Duty” but Utah has a $15k tax credit that expires end of 2020. If someone could release one by then, I might splurge on a $70k truck which would essentially make it roughly $47,500 after tax credits.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:19 PM   #41
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A good video of the R1T and its features. Also a couple jabs on the price at the end.

https://jalopnik.com/the-rivian-r1t-...20?jwsource=cl
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:22 AM   #42
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IF I am honest, If I have 80k to spend on an SUV. I am buying a Toyota Land Cruiser.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:45 AM   #43
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IF I am honest, If I have 80k to spend on an SUV. I am buying a Toyota Land Cruiser.
And that would be a great choice. You can't beat the reliability since Toyota designed them for at least a 25 year service life.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #44
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:20 PM   #45
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good for them
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