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Old 12-03-2019, 02:07 PM   #26
kukabuka
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Thanks for the info, all. I'm not on the list yet for the Ascent CVT TSB, though I see it is a relatively new service campaign. My build date is 4/18. The affected vehicles were manufactured between February 22nd 2018 through May 7th, 2019, so that's a lot of Ascents.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:23 PM   #27
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The FB oil consumption issue hasn't actually triggered a recall because that hasn't stranded or endangered anyone, so far.
But, man, now, top end / valve train issues? That N/A FB/FA series is a gift that keeps on giving. Yikes !
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:35 PM   #28
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Toyota had the valve springs issue/recall on the Tacoma 2TR back in 2013/14. Toyota and Subaru are also both involved the the FRS/BRZ which also has the valve spring issue. Has anyone here considered the remote possibility it's an issue with a joint supplier and not necessarily an overall quality issue to blame on one company? This is just a question for others, as I've worked for both companies and just may understand a little more about what goes on than the typical aggravated consumer. Several articles even mention Subaru/Toyota in their headlines.

Techs for Toyota, Honda and Subaru (among MANY others) deal with recalls every week and sometimes every day. They also deal with bulletins which are not mandatory and way less likely to cause issues for customers. While giving your vehicle to a company to get free repairs due to a faulty component or design may seem like the end of the world, keep in mind at least they are doing their best to take care of customers, rather than telling them to get bent and pound sand. It's amazing people will cry and lament over something companies many times will extend warranties to cover. And yeah, someone will likely come back with a "death...class action lawsuit...etc" comment, but keep in mind these issues have to happen and be proven to have happened before a company will take action. This is why it sometimes takes a class action lawsuit, because of how long the investigations take. I worked for Toyota before during and after the entire "pedal sticking" bs fiasco and can tell you the lawsuits were based on nonsense. They couldn't prove the vehicles caused their issues, but because Toyota couldn't PROVE they didn't, they had to suck it up and do something to prove they were "making changes", to make consumers happy. I still have several brand new oem toyota dbw pedals in the boxes, because the training centers had tons of them left over from training purposes, and couldn't sell them so they gave them to techs "for practice" or to just use for projects.


While Subaru is losing some profit due to the current issues, (I've researched the numbers, don't need a recap) they are still proven to outperform most companies in the safety department, (several models at the top of the list) which a lot of people prefer. All car companies have random issues, it's how they deal with said issues that defines their customer base. And yeah of course some dealers suck, but that is across the board. If you're having a bad experience, it's not indicative of every dealer's (or the entire company's) treatment of customers, you may even want to have the work done at another dealer. I had an inflator recall on my 2.5i and once I talked to the shady service advisor at the closest dealer, I decided to get it done at one that was in another state...while visiting friends. They knocked it out in less than an hour, even at a large busy dealer.

These aren't 100,000 dollar cars and you aren't always going to get your butt kissed when there's an issue they need to repair for free. You may not get a loaner asap, or even get one at all depending on how quickly the repair is estimated to take. Keep that in mind when you're complaining about a repair a tech may only get a few hours of flag time to repair on a vehicle that many people here like to label "econo box". Also keep in mind not every vehicle will have a failure, but the company will still ask for them so they can perform repairs, to be sure said vehicles that fall within a VIN range have known good parts. Some vehicle recalls require a check and not replacement of parts, depending on VIN range and part manufacturer. Some just require replacement. Either way, the company is paying for the repair and asking you to bring it in. Give them a chance to repair it correctly, and if some idiot tech happens to do a bad job, demand a senior tech does the work. Many shop managers will oblige if you don't treat them like garbage.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 12-04-2019 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:29 AM   #29
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You are still wanting to compare to other makes.

Subaru has several very positive attributes they have solid reputations for. One being reliability. That is one of the CORE attributes. With the things that have been going on for the past near decade, if they don't get crap straight, it won't be too long before that reputation takes a pretty good hit. I personally believe, based on my query of pretty much each customer I interact with, that once Consumer Reports starts to show the results of all of this, is when Subaru will start to be questioned harder. And the only saving grace may be their superior safety ratings.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:52 PM   #30
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You are still wanting to compare to other makes.

Subaru has several very positive attributes they have solid reputations for. One being reliability. That is one of the CORE attributes. With the things that have been going on for the past near decade, if they don't get crap straight, it won't be too long before that reputation takes a pretty good hit. I personally believe, based on my query of pretty much each customer I interact with, that once Consumer Reports starts to show the results of all of this, is when Subaru will start to be questioned harder. And the only saving grace may be their superior safety ratings.
Agree. They've been lucky to hold the line thus far. But all it's going to take is the recall or another one for consumer reports to do the John McCain. And SOA will have feet to fire if they major 'zines write stories that proliferate. If they get labeled as unreliable, the dominoes start to fall.

Their chassis are still the best out there in crash safety, them and Tesla.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:16 PM   #31
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CR just had a reliability report based on consumer feedback. The Ascent rated low on the average reliability scale 45 with the average range being 60-40.

One thing to keep in mind is all these reports are in the rears. The data is all for product 6 months to 2 years old. I agree with whay Justy said, they better get there pooper in gear. Once Subaru gets an unreliable score it will be there for 3-5 years regardless of what the product really is. Just like the reliable rating now.

The problem is these are design flaws. Production or quality problems can be fixed in manufacturing. Design flaws need to be redesigned. That takes time.

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Old 12-04-2019, 09:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
CR just had a reliability report based on consumer feedback. The Ascent rated low on the average reliability scale 45 with the average range being 60-40.

One thing to keep in mind is all these reports are in the rears. The data is all for product 6 months to 2 years old. I agree with whay Justy said, they better get there pooper in gear. Once Subaru gets an unreliable score it will be there for 3-5 years regardless of what the product really is. Just like the reliable rating now.

The problem is these are design flaws. Production or quality problems can be fixed in manufacturing. Design flaws need to be redesigned. That takes time.

Peace,

Greg
The ascent is actually doing pretty good, way better sales than the Tribeca had, for example. Some missing spot welds is the main issue they were having, and it's not due to a design flaw, it was a manufacturing issue. That is something they quickly rectified, and just because they get recalled doesn't mean they all had missing spot welds. They need to be checked in case, doesn't mean they all had the issue.

Another issue the Ascents had was for very few vehicles, to check for a faulty propeller shaft center mount. Supposedly less than 200 of them out of over 80,000 sold could have had the issue, and again that doesn't mean they were all faulty, only suspect and have to be checked to confirm. Honda had a similar issue with some new civics, but it's for a front axle. It's first checked to see where it originated by checking the date code etc, so they can determine if it needs replacement. I do believe with the Ascent being new, they should have had better employees spot checking every single one that left the line, but I guess somehow that wasn't happening. The welds definitely could have caused unecessary injury or death had someone been hit badly enough to cause that area to fail.

Either way, the people not keeping up with quality control need to be replaced and/or the QC processes modified to make them foolproof. The Ascents are built in Indiana, maybe they should have started building them only in Japan first then eventually starting up the plant here using processes proven there.


I'm out though, off to find a thread with a little more zing.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
The ascent is actually doing pretty good, way better sales than the Tribeca had, for example. Some missing spot welds is the main issue they were having, and it's not due to a design flaw, it was a manufacturing issue. That is something they quickly rectified, and just because they get recalled doesn't mean they all had missing spot welds. They need to be checked in case, doesn't mean they all had the issue.

Another issue the Ascents had was for very few vehicles, to check for a faulty propeller shaft center mount. Supposedly less than 200 of them out of over 80,000 sold could have had the issue, and again that doesn't mean they were all faulty, only suspect and have to be checked to confirm. Honda had a similar issue with some new civics, but it's for a front axle. It's first checked to see where it originated by checking the date code etc, so they can determine if it needs replacement. I do believe with the Ascent being new, they should have had better employees spot checking every single one that left the line, but I guess somehow that wasn't happening. The welds definitely could have caused unecessary injury or death had someone been hit badly enough to cause that area to fail.

Either way, the people not keeping up with quality control need to be replaced or the QC processes modified to make them foolproof. The Ascents are built in Indiana, maybe they should have started building them only in Japan first then eventually starting up the plant here using processes proven there.

You are correct. Not all cars are affected by certain recalls. In fact, the first one you mentioned, NONE were affected.

SIA has the same standards as Gunma if I remember what I was told correctly. They are/had issues in Gunma as well, though, if you don't remember. Part of the reason Crosstrek/Forester inventory has been low.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:31 PM   #34
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As pointed out, a recall doesn't mean the part was necessarily "bad" in every car, just that there are many of them bad, and they don't know/can't tell which ones, so they just replace everything - I've had 3 recalls on my car - the passenger airbag (Takata), the parking brake actuator, and the cover over the windshield wiper motor. On our old Odyssey, we had a bunch - brake master cylinder (ours actually did fail - I replaced it and Honda reimbursed when the recall came out), fuel pump module leak, etc. - no brakes and a gas leak were sort of annoying... all manufacturers have recalls - as Subaru grows in volume, they are likely to see more of them.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:27 PM   #35
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Ascent PCV valve twice that will destroy the engines and the usual Subaru CVT reflash to keep the trans from melting. Every single Subaru with a CVT has had TSBs or recalls associated with the trans. Design design design.

The Ascent is selling well. However, the people that bought them and have responded to CR's surveys are becoming unhappy with quality of the product and or the dealer service.

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Old 12-04-2019, 11:34 PM   #36
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Every single Subaru with a CVT has had TSBs or recalls associated with the trans.
NOT TRUE.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:34 AM   #37
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NOT TRUE.
Easy Tex.....

After I wrote that I thought more about it. First gen OB and first gen Crosstrek never had cvt reflashes. Justy would know for sure.

Regardless of my misinformation or alternative truth, you can deny the amount and possible severity of SOA’s Recalls.

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Old 12-05-2019, 11:02 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Easy Tex.....

After I wrote that I thought more about it. First gen OB and first gen Crosstrek never had cvt reflashes. Justy would know for sure.

Regardless of my misinformation or alternative truth, you can deny the amount and possible severity of SOA’s Recalls.

Peace,

Greg
The statement on CVTs was an outright untruth. I've owned six, I know.

And the sky hasn't fallen for me on recalls either. Of the last eight Subarus I've owned I've had 2... that's two... recalls indicated and done, a WRX intake duct and an Impreza ECU reflash.

The one in my '19 Impreza I will always be thankful for, because while it may have corrected a potential problem down the line, it made my Impreza's driving performance unbelievably good.

For all those inclined to wax hyperbolic about Subaru recalls... my advice is to speak for yourself. You will look less rabid.
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #39
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The statement on CVTs was an outright untruth. I've owned six, I know.

And the sky hasn't fallen for me on recalls either. Of the last eight Subarus I've owned I've had 2... that's two... recalls indicated and done, a WRX intake duct and an Impreza ECU reflash.

The one in my '19 Impreza I will always be thankful for, because while it may have corrected a potential problem down the line, it made my Impreza's driving performance unbelievably good.

For all those inclined to wax hyperbolic about Subaru recalls... my advice is to speak for yourself. You will look less rabid.

I don't think they are trying to allude to each Subaru owner is got a waterfall of recalls on them. SUBARU has a waterfall of recalls happening. And as I said before, the thread title is sadly true.
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:59 PM   #40
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The statement on CVTs was an outright untruth. I've owned six, I know.

And the sky hasn't fallen for me on recalls either. Of the last eight Subarus I've owned I've had 2... that's two... recalls indicated and done, a WRX intake duct and an Impreza ECU reflash.

The one in my '19 Impreza I will always be thankful for, because while it may have corrected a potential problem down the line, it made my Impreza's driving performance unbelievably good.

For all those inclined to wax hyperbolic about Subaru recalls... my advice is to speak for yourself. You will look less rabid.
With that many Subarus and such great luck you are a statistical outlier. Be grateful. Not mad.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:51 PM   #41
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With that many Subarus and such great luck you are a statistical outlier. Be grateful. Not mad.
Unless you have data to back that up I'll consider your reply an opinion, like most input to this thread.

In MY opinion, the ones who have had "bad luck" are the "outliers."

My second Subaru, a '94 Legacy, I owned 10 years... no recalls. My '05 LGT I owned 4 years... no recalls. My '17 FXT I had 3 years... no recalls. Altogether I've owned 14 Subarus, all but two 2 or more years.

Two recalls in 14 Subarus over 28 years. Zero failures in any.

You and I have different experiences with "statistics" because I'd challenge anyone who would interpret my experience with Subaru as mere luck, and an outlier.

There is a reason Subaru has the reputation it does with reliability... statistics, statistics in which I consider my experience just part of the bulk of owners. NOT an outlier.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #42
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You crazy. Be grateful.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:50 PM   #43
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My ‘15 WRX was built in May of ‘14 and it’s had only two recalls. One for the LSPI (pointless after a tune anyway) and one for the plastic clip on the HK amplifier in the rear deck. My wife’s BMW has had 4 recalls since 2011, all of which could result in a fire.

Subaru isn’t any worse or any better than any other auto manufacturer in that regard.

I’ve worked in the auto industry and in the communications industry. TSBs are everywhere. It doesn’t mean we should grab our torches and pitchforks. They are simply there to make techs aware of a possible issue. I can pull up Motorola’s site and find literally dozens of TSBs for their two way radios.

Alright, back to fightin’
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:24 PM   #44
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Unless you have data to back that up I'll consider your reply an opinion, like most input to this thread.

In MY opinion, the ones who have had "bad luck" are the "outliers."

My second Subaru, a '94 Legacy, I owned 10 years... no recalls. My '05 LGT I owned 4 years... no recalls. My '17 FXT I had 3 years... no recalls. Altogether I've owned 14 Subarus, all but two 2 or more years.

Two recalls in 14 Subarus over 28 years. Zero failures in any.

You and I have different experiences with "statistics" because I'd challenge anyone who would interpret my experience with Subaru as mere luck, and an outlier.

There is a reason Subaru has the reputation it does with reliability... statistics, statistics in which I consider my experience just part of the bulk of owners. NOT an outlier.

I have a question. Not sure if you keep track of your VINs after you get rid of your cars(I have all of mine. Including the one I drove while in Japan back in the early 90s); but, has ANY of your previous cars been included in ANY recall since you got rid of them after just a couple years? I've had my Baja 13 years. 2 recalls. My '06 Forester I've had for 4. No recalls. My '18 Impreza my wife drives has had 1.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:36 PM   #45
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I have a question. Not sure if you keep track of your VINs after you get rid of your cars(I have all of mine. Including the one I drove while in Japan back in the early 90s); but, has ANY of your previous cars been included in ANY recall since you got rid of them after just a couple years? I've had my Baja 13 years. 2 recalls. My '06 Forester I've had for 4. No recalls. My '18 Impreza my wife drives has had 1.
No I don't... but of all I think my '14 FXT had recalls, but after I traded it. The '15 WRX had the intake duct recall while I had it, and I "think" it had others? after I traded. That's it, I've explained the rest.

Your inclusion of YOUR experience is what is needed, not all the BS... including the thread's title, from a poster who's only input is intended for trolling.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:44 PM   #46
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No I don't... but of all I think my '14 FXT had recalls, but after I traded it. The '15 WRX had the intake duct recall while I had it, and I "think" it had others? after I traded. That's it, I've explained the rest.

Your inclusion of YOUR experience is what is needed, not all the BS... including the thread's title, from a poster who's only input is intended for trolling.
The overall complaint is there is ANOTHER recall each week. You came to say your experience has been pretty good with little recall issue. Others have not. And maybe you would have recall issues if you kept them longer. That's not a dig. You get to buy cars whenever you want. It's your money. I do agree with you that in the total number of Subarus sold, the affected people are in the minority; but, as of late, these recalls are pretty much including EVERYONE at some level or another. Subaru needs to hurry up and get a handle on this before it takes a devastating toll on them. I'll defend them all day until there really isn't something to defend. As of today, I'm still confident. Tomorrow.......?
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:00 PM   #47
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The overall complaint is there is ANOTHER recall each week. You came to say your experience has been pretty good with little recall issue. Others have not. And maybe you would have recall issues if you kept them longer. That's not a dig. You get to buy cars whenever you want. It's your money. I do agree with you that in the total number of Subarus sold, the affected people are in the minority; but, as of late, these recalls are pretty much including EVERYONE at some level or another. Subaru needs to hurry up and get a handle on this before it takes a devastating toll on them. I'll defend them all day until there really isn't something to defend. As of today, I'm still confident. Tomorrow.......?
And maybe "recall" has come to mean something other than that by which it's always been known?

Today's recalls are marked by more than just the response to an overwhelming mandate to correct a major flaw. Now they are being preemptive, and taking the opportunity to refine an already healthy vehicle on top of that.

It makes no difference how long a product remains in engineering being refined, it is always released unfinished as far as the engineers are concerned. EVERY product. Cars included. In the past they just ran with it and dealt with whatever major issue forced a reaction. Subaru's current mindset is to provide not only the best car they can offer, they're implementing their learning curve asap in production AND providing as much of that to the customer base post-production as possible. They want the reputation of their product to be superior, and doing everything to ensure it. Tagging past connotations on current processes is myopic, or a reflection of negative bias against the brand.

Four of Subarus vehicles are now BEST of class. They didn't get that way accidentally, or by luck.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:33 PM   #48
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Four of Subarus vehicles are now BEST of class. They didn't get that way accidentally, or by luck.
These CONSTANT recalls will change that if this doesn't stop................




Just after posting that last one, I got into the system to find guess what? ANOTHER recall.

Yes, this one is also small. DOESN'T MATTER when the customer has to bring their car back to the dealership for something other than normal maintenance. In certain cases, multiple times. This is something Subaru is NOT known for. They don't need for this to be something the ARE known for.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:34 PM   #49
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Looks like Subaru Australia is going to recall 2019 Forester for bad PCV valves; no word on whether or not it's going to happen in the USDM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:41 PM   #50
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Subaru just changed the Ascent CVT TCM reflash TSB to a full-on recall. Lots of Ascent folks getting new CVTs. Looks like mine is still outside the build date scope of the recall. So far.
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