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Old 05-01-2020, 12:50 PM   #851
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az06wrx View Post
Hmm, maybe you're correct after all

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...&postcount=519

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlesholmes33 View Post
Amazing thread and resource. To the OP

IHI VF56
Very similar to the VF42 model in terms of spool and capacity, the VF56 is a roller-bearing turbo and is similar in size to the VF42 turbo, but the twin-scroll exhaust housing is even a little larger still and yields faster spool-up and a superior top-end. The VF56 can be found on the R205 and the S206

FYI: The VF42 is also the turbo they used on the Legacy S402.
The post that you referenced is slightly inaccurate.

The Legacy STI S402 used the very rare VF51. This turbo isn't even documented on most of the common online Subaru IHI turbo lists. The VF51 was exclusive to the S402 with only 402 units made. It has a 9 blade turbine wheel and 6+6 straight blade profile compressor wheel.

VF51
RHF5H
14411AA790





The VF42 (144114S000) was used exclusively on the S203 & S204 (~1155 units). This turbo featured a larger diameter (48.5mm) 6+6 compressor wheel, 9 blade turbine wheel (instead of 11), twin scroll P25 turbine housing, and RHF5HB ball bearing CHRA.

The VF56 was exclusively used on the R205 (400 units).

The VF58 was used on the S206, S207, S208 & Type RA-R. This is the best turbo that IHI ever made for Subaru. It may not be the rarest, but it's the most sought after and nearly impossible to purchase a replacement.. even with proof of ownership.

Giorgio @ Advanced Sports Engineering Lab has the only VF58 that IHI ever sold to the public. It was used on his 01/01 Forester STI concept car that was built in collaboration with STI allowing him exclusive access to all of their rarest parts.. even those discontinued and unavailable to the public.
https://www.facebook.com/advancedspo...7374465019605/

Let me know if you're interested in obtaining any of these rare turbochargers or would like additional information on them. I'm happy to help.
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Old 05-01-2020, 06:54 PM   #852
az06wrx
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
The post that you referenced is slightly inaccurate.

The Legacy STI S402 used the very rare VF51. This turbo isn't even documented on most of the common online Subaru IHI turbo lists. The VF51 was exclusive to the S402 with only 402 units made. It has a 9 blade turbine wheel and 6+6 straight blade profile compressor wheel.

VF51
RHF5H
14411AA790





The VF42 (144114S000) was used exclusively on the S203 & S204 (~1155 units). This turbo featured a larger diameter (48.5mm) 6+6 compressor wheel, 9 blade turbine wheel (instead of 11), twin scroll P25 turbine housing, and RHF5HB ball bearing CHRA.

The VF56 was exclusively used on the R205 (400 units).

The VF58 was used on the S206, S207, S208 & Type RA-R. This is the best turbo that IHI ever made for Subaru. It may not be the rarest, but it's the most sought after and nearly impossible to purchase a replacement.. even with proof of ownership.

Giorgio @ Advanced Sports Engineering Lab has the only VF58 that IHI ever sold to the public. It was used on his 01/01 Forester STI concept car that was built in collaboration with STI allowing him exclusive access to all of their rarest parts.. even those discontinued and unavailable to the public.
https://www.facebook.com/advancedspo...7374465019605/

Let me know if you're interested in obtaining any of these rare turbochargers or would like additional information on them. I'm happy to help.
PM'd.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:36 PM   #853
squaresandcubes
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Default Spool / HP Numbers

Are these HP numbers based on pump gas? ie 91.
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Old 06-17-2020, 11:51 PM   #854
TKNPODsTi
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There’s a s209 turbo on eBay. $5,000

Thanks for all this info. Great reading.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:28 PM   #855
WRXnick16
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2019 STI CWP

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I thought some may find this comparison interesting. I extracted the data from the OEM power charts (provided by Subaru/STI) to create a torque curve comparison for various OEM EJ & FA engine/turbo setups.



Battle of the OEM Twin Scroll Subarus & the USDM STI EJ257.
  • JDM S208: EJ207 VF58 - twin scroll, ball bearing, TiAl
  • JDM STI: EJ207 VF49 - twin scroll, journal bearing
  • JDM WRX S4: FA20DIT MGT2259S - twin scroll, journal bearing
  • JDM Legacy S402: EJ257 VF51 - twin scroll, ball bearing
  • USDM STI: EJ257 VF48 - single scroll, journal bearing, UELH
This is my motivation behind performing the VF58 twin scroll conversion on my USDM '19 STI (EJ257).. and why Giorgio & his team at Advanced Sports Engineering Lab are currently upgrading my VF58

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find an OEM power chart for the S209 to include in this comparison. However, peak torque from the larger HKS turbo comes on ~1,000 RPM later than the VF48 equipped EJ257 (~4,700 RPM in the S209 vs ~3,700 RPM with the VF48).
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:40 AM   #856
flavioice
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WRXnick16 you are going to make a perfect ej257, I really love your ideas, much different than make horsepower. This is like tune a great piano, but modify that for make that good piano to sound perfect. With the VF58 you will gain all beneficial from the twinscroll, with the Tial you will have a beneficial of one big wheel to spin like a smaller one, so less backpressure at hight rpm and great response at low rpm, a ball bearing that help a lot the spool and make solid and durable one turbo and a bigger inducer great for your engine. Wow!
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:08 PM   #857
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavioice View Post
WRXnick16 you are going to make a perfect ej257, I really love your ideas, much different than make horsepower. This is like tune a great piano, but modify that for make that good piano to sound perfect. With the VF58 you will gain all beneficial from the twinscroll, with the TiAl you will have a beneficial of one big wheel to spin like a smaller one, so less backpressure at high rpm and great response at low rpm, a ball bearing that help a lot the spool and make solid and durable one turbo and a bigger inducer great for your engine. Wow!
Thank you flavioice, I appreciate the kind words!

My goal is to maximize efficiency, responsiveness and area under the curve. I have no desire for crazy peak power, but rather creating the ultimate OEM-ish EJ257 that Subaru of Japan never made for the US.. the setup that the S209 should have received. I also have an obsession for the OEM+ theme (S-series, Group N, etc.). Previously owning a very responsive, E85 flex fuel tuned, twin scroll FA20DIT was also part of the inspiration for my build.

I've never seen a documented build of anyone performing a similar setup. Many will think that I'm crazy for spending the time & money when I could have just went with a [INSERT Brand] ELH & turbo. The only setup that I believe could provide comparable levels of power & responsiveness would be a Killer B ELH & EFR 6258.

Advanced Sports Engineering Lab is in the process of rebuilding my VF58 and are one of the only companies in the world that I trust with such a rare turbo. I contacted at least 10 of the most well known turbo re-builders in the US and all said they couldn't and/or wouldn't rebuild it.. I'm not sure if they had even heard of this turbo before.

ASEL is rebuilding the turbo with ceramic dual ball bearings, a forged billet aluminum compressor wheel with extended tips (reducing rotational mass while also improving strength & flow), porting the compressor inlet & turbine housing inlet scrolls, ceramic coating the turbine housing, and most importantly, retaining the rare, lightweight TiAL (aka Gamma-Ti) turbine wheel & shaft. Essentially modernizing the turbo with similar features as EFR turbos and the IHI turbos supplied to Ferrari. I'm hoping that this will make for a virtually zero lag setup when combined with the EJ257's extra displacement, longer stroke, and slight compression bump.. just trying to keep up with the FA platform and future FA24DIT STI. I fear it will be quite a torque monster when combined with a flex fuel tune

ASEL has been amazing to work with.. sending pictures & videos of the entire process with balancing on their Schenck machine and machining/assembly on the TurboClinic workbench. They clean the parts via sandblasting, ultrasound & solvents.. finishing with a protective coating to prevent rusting. They X-ray, laser & pressure check the components to verify their integrity prior to reusing anything.

The compressor housing is currently in their 5 axis CAD/CNC lab awaiting machining to match the extended tip wing profile of the new billet aluminium compressor wheel. Unfortunately, the lab is busy working on some billet racing short blocks at the moment. ASEL primarily specialize in S-series, RA-R & WRC cars and has a direct relationship to STI. They are a true engineering company.. that happens to also have a strong passion for Subaru Motorsports

I will receive final pictures, balancing report, etc. once the work is complete. Some teasers in the meantime...















An example of their twin scroll conversion "wake up kit" (not my turbo pictured):



I'll continue to post updates and other Subaru content like this on my Instagram for anyone interested in following me @STINickTuned. I love the forums and will continue to post here (and on IWSTI) in order to support them.. but unfortunately forums are a dying breed compared to social media.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:06 PM   #858
flavioice
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Oh, for sure if you are in the Giorgio's hands you are in good hands!!! You are in my same optic, unfortunately I bought my subaru ej207 with the "wrong" turbo, is a efr7163, also with the usdm sti heather single scroll and unequal. I don't really understand what the people think when put together parts random without even think. Only goal is HP.... I'm sure that also in this discussion there is many people that think, oh my gosh you have an amazing turbo and you spit on it. I'm not, I'm doing that on the whole setup. I dream a 6758 or a 6258 because make more sense. But I don't have the money right now to change everything from scratch, so I'm going to do a twinscroll setup with the t4 housing with the equal length twin scroll setup completely thermal shielded. See the results, if I don't like, sell everything and go with the 6758.
WRXnick16 are you going to change also your cams with a slightly longer durations as you will use a twin scroll?
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:53 PM   #859
WRXnick16
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Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavioice View Post
Oh, for sure if you are in the Giorgio's hands you are in good hands!!! You are in my same optic, unfortunately I bought my subaru ej207 with the "wrong" turbo, is a efr7163, also with the usdm sti heather single scroll and unequal. I don't really understand what the people think when put together parts random without even think. Only goal is HP.... I'm sure that also in this discussion there is many people that think, oh my gosh you have an amazing turbo and you spit on it. I'm not, I'm doing that on the whole setup. I dream a 6758 or a 6258 because make more sense. But I don't have the money right now to change everything from scratch, so I'm going to do a twinscroll setup with the t4 housing with the equal length twin scroll setup completely thermal shielded. See the results, if I don't like, sell everything and go with the 6758.
WRXnick16 are you going to change also your cams with a slightly longer durations as you will use a twin scroll?
I don't understand it either, but it sounds like you have a great plan going forward! The EFR7163 is certainly quite a large turbo for the EJ207.

Long term I do plan to change the camshafts in order to take full advantage of the twin scroll setup & AVCS tuning. My dream is to have Giorgio's team to build a blueprinted & balanced "hybrid" with the EJ257 block and S-grade EJ207 heads Obviously the combustion chamber will need to be CNC machined for the proper bore size, chamber volume & compression ratio. But this is all a dream for the distant future.
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:04 PM   #860
flavioice
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Remember to keep that car forever, because you will be the only one that will appreciate what are you doing!
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