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Old 12-09-2022, 07:17 AM   #3901
mcarb002
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Itís fraud. Used it to pump stock whilst knowing it was a failure. So investors were mislead. Whilst billing customers for it so consumers were mislead as well. I mean, shoot, you are now getting a Tesla without the radar that you thought you were going to get when you ordered it 5 months ago. They should at least refund your deposit if you refuse to take delivery.
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:02 AM   #3902
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Originally Posted by mcarb002 View Post
Itís fraud. Used it to pump stock whilst knowing it was a failure. So investors were mislead. Whilst billing customers for it so consumers were mislead as well. I mean, shoot, you are now getting a Tesla without the radar that you thought you were going to get when you ordered it 5 months ago. They should at least refund your deposit if you refuse to take delivery.
There is 36 Tesla stock analyst from different investment firms and my understanding is that zero of them include FSD on their price targets .
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:51 AM   #3903
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Weight is mechanical downforce. Low CG weight is better mechanical downforce.
Seems there's a special on word salad today.
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Old 12-09-2022, 10:27 AM   #3904
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Originally Posted by mcarb002 View Post
I mean, shoot, you are now getting a Tesla without the radar that you thought you were going to get when you ordered it 5 months ago. They should at least refund your deposit if you refuse to take delivery.
Radar was disabled from the car earlier this year by software update and it drives itself better than ever. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 12-09-2022, 10:34 AM   #3905
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Originally Posted by blurred View Post
Weight is mechanical downforce. Low CG weight is better mechanical downforce.
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Originally Posted by brandon View Post
Seems there's a special on word salad today.
We don't do first principles on this forum, or we would have seen the juggernaut Tesla has become a decade ago instead of predicting it's imminent demise.

Just like FSD. They're obviously going to be the first to have generalized autonomy, and likely years ahead of others. Comma is the only other one really in the game, but they have virtually no resources on the project compared to Tesla.
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Old 12-09-2022, 11:02 AM   #3906
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There is 36 Tesla stock analyst from different investment firms and my understanding is that zero of them include FSD on their price targets .

that's for little breadcrumb peasants like you and me bud. Real, and I mean, real investors, those are the ones that get to hear it from the horse's mouth as Musk spouts about robotaxi and FSD on earnings calls....



But regardless, even if this was 100% true, this is a terrible alibi.



Musk has tweeted and talked the heck out of FSD for years now, about how it's almost there almost complete, testing this, testing that, can download now due to demand, the robotaxi .. like LITERALLY, LITERALLY, these are the sort of stuff you say to attract investors and buyers...all the while knowing it was not a functioning system but still pumping it up and accepting people's money to now come out and be like "oh yeah, this actually is a failure sorry"... it's 100% misleading tactic.



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Radar was disabled from the car earlier this year by software update and it drives itself better than ever. You don't know what you're talking about.

what I mean was the USS. Chill out fanboy.

Last edited by mcarb002; 12-09-2022 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:04 PM   #3907
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what I mean was the USS. Chill out fanboy.
Same comment applies. USS barely does anything. I've had my range chimes disabled for most of 7 years. It's being removed because of how accurate the range/occupancy inference from Tesla Vision has become, and especially the latency from Tesla Vision is a huge improvement over the USS which makes superior lane positioning on highway autopilot possible.

You. don't. know. what. you're. talking. about.
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:20 PM   #3908
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Same comment applies. USS barely does anything. I've had my range chimes disabled for most of 7 years. It's being removed because of how accurate the range/occupancy inference from Tesla Vision has become, and especially the latency from Tesla Vision is a huge improvement over the USS which makes superior lane positioning on highway autopilot possible.

You. don't. know. what. you're. talking. about.
The one comment that applies is mine, you order a vehicle with billed features today and receive it without them once your vehicle is delivered. Instead youíre here making excuses with your pathetic anecdotal bs that you disable it whilst vomiting out whatever diatribe Tesla uses as a justification for removing them. As if thatís suppose to make things better or excusable. Tesla can remove headlights and youíre the type to justify it by saying you donít even drive at night anymore or another laughable excuseÖF.A.N.B.O.YÖ
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:26 PM   #3909
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The one comment that applies is mine, you order a vehicle with billed features today and receive it without them once your vehicle is delivered. Instead youíre here making excuses with your pathetic anecdotal bs that you disable it whilst vomiting out whatever diatribe Tesla uses as a justification for removing them. As if thatís suppose to make things better or excusable. Tesla can remove headlights and youíre the type to justify it by saying you donít even drive at night anymore or another laughable excuseÖF.A.N.B.O.YÖ
Tell me you don't understand what I'm saying without saying you don't understand what I'm saying...
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:28 PM   #3910
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Originally Posted by mcarb002 View Post
......Tesla can remove headlights and youíre the type to justify it by saying you donít even drive at night anymore or another laughable excuseÖF.A.N.B.O.YÖ
.. ..


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Old 12-09-2022, 12:44 PM   #3911
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Radar was disabled from the car earlier this year by software update and it drives itself better than ever. You don't know what you're talking about.
Wow, so tesla went all in on the camera only garbage too? I hope it doesn't shut off in snow or heavy rain like Subaru's does...
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:59 PM   #3912
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Tell me you don't understand what I'm saying without saying you don't understand what I'm saying...
Uhhh letís see, youíre excusing a company for removing X and Y feature in their current product because the company says theyíre working on a supposed better technology for the future with an unknown time frame. Not to mention same company is currently under some heat for selling a feature which they havenít been able to deliver on and might consider said feature a failure. I wonder what excuse youíll use when they come out and say ďoh yeah relying in cameras didnít work, we couldnít figure out blind spots, or inclement weatherĒÖ

So Yeah, I think I understand it, youíre drinking a lot of kool-aid. You know deep down the right thing to do is wait till you have what you say youíre working on fully working before releasing it or removing other features, but Tesla canít help themselves and you keep making excuses for it.
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Old 12-09-2022, 01:11 PM   #3913
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USS false fires in inclement weather with snow/bouncing rock salt
Radar disables itself along with smart cruise control when snow/slush or even highly salty (read: conductive) water builds up in front of the sensors.

Subaru's eyesight sucks. It will never change. The constant level of suckage is what you can expect for the life of the car.
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Old 12-09-2022, 01:11 PM   #3914
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USS false fires in inclement weather with snow/bouncing rock salt
Radar disables itself along with smart cruise control when snow/slush or even highly salty (read: conductive) water builds up in front of the sensors.

Subaru's eyesight sucks. It will never change. The constant level of suckage is what you can expect for the life of the car.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:30 PM   #3915
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Radar was disabled from the car earlier this year by software update and it drives itself better than ever. You don't know what you're talking about.
No it doesn't. Removing radar was a mistake and one of the reasons they are no closer today than they were years ago. I believe the poster was talking about the ultrasonic parking sensors which have been removed and new vehicles lacking the self parking features of pre-fall delivered Teslas.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:32 PM   #3916
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I think this law suit will go no where and I think their website is very clear about what you will get:



I believe Elon said that radar was not necessary but he said that HD radar that didn't exist at the moment of his tweet would be beneficial. I don't understand why people love lidar so much, it doesn't work in rain, fog, or snow. There is companies that have ditched the lidar for the camera approach.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:46 PM   #3917
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I believe Elon said that radar was not necessary but he said that HD radar that didn't exist at the moment of his tweet would be beneficial. I don't understand why people love lidar so much, it doesn't work in rain, fog, or snow. There is companies that have ditched the lidar for the camera approach.
Radar works great in inclement weather. System in my R only shut off when snow/ice built up on it after extended snow driving. Never shut off in rain, no matter how heavy. But I've watched Subaru's camera only system shut off multiple times in moderate rain, and not just the adaptive cruise, I'm talking the whole emergency braking system. Perhaps it's not good enough for autonomous driving, but whatever I think that's a pie in the sky idea that'll never fully happen.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:52 PM   #3918
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No it doesn't. Removing radar was a mistake and one of the reasons they are no closer today than they were years ago.
I've been driving autopilot since v1, 7 years ago. My radar was disabled sometime around a year ago. Removing radar made one of the biggest improvements to highway driving ever. Low resolution radar can't tell the difference between a car, a tin can, the edge of a badly placed manhole cover, or a bridge over a crest, etc, etc.

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I don't understand why people love lidar so much, it doesn't work in rain, fog, or snow. There is companies that have ditched the lidar for the camera approach.
They don't love it. Like the above thread, they just want to take cheap (and wrong) shots on Tesla/Elon. The worst part about it is the lazyness. There are plenty of things to take a dig at them about, but that might require learning something instead of spouting off with copypasta nonsense. This is the age old story of Tesla. It could be forgiven 10 years ago, but these day's it's like you're trying to train a monkey between two buttons, one that gives a shock and another one that gives a banana, and the goddamn monkey keeps hitting the shock button.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:58 PM   #3919
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Snow and ice builds up on the radar, and it can't easily be cleaned. Snow and ice builds up on the windshield, it can be cleaned with the windshield wipers.

Eyesight not working in rain is a decision by Subaru and its supplier to make that a limitation. They didn't want to have to guarantee a certain level of performance in the rain. I'm sure some future version will behave better, when Mobileye updates their software and the camera hardware improves.

On the flip side, radar is better in fog than a camera. However radar-only situations have limitations, as the system cannot corroborate a radar reading if there is heavy fog or a blocked windshield.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:58 PM   #3920
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Snow and ice builds up on the radar, and it can't easily be cleaned. Snow and ice builds up on the windshield, it can be cleaned with the windshield wipers.

Eyesight not working in rain is a decision by Subaru and its supplier to make that a limitation. They didn't want to have to guarantee a certain level of performance in the rain. I'm sure some future version will behave better, when Mobileye updates their software and the camera hardware improves.

On the flip side, radar is better in fog than a camera. However radar-only situations have limitations, as the system cannot corroborate a radar reading if there is heavy fog or a blocked windshield.
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Old 12-09-2022, 05:15 PM   #3921
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I think this law suit will go no where and I think their website is very clear about what you will get:



I believe Elon said that radar was not necessary but he said that HD radar that didn't exist at the moment of his tweet would be beneficial. I don't understand why people love lidar so much, it doesn't work in rain, fog, or snow. There is companies that have ditched the lidar for the camera approach.
Tesla needs to change the name of that, Full Self driving is saying it's autonomous. You can put whatever you want in fine print but it's misleading.
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Old 12-09-2022, 05:38 PM   #3922
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Tesla needs to change the name of that, Full Self driving is saying it's autonomous. You can put whatever you want in fine print but it's misleading.


They can call it anything and it will still be attacked. "Autopilot" is still on the hit list. Because everyone expects autopilot to fly their planes, the pilot is just there for show. When you want to purposefully misunderstand something, nothing matters.
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:17 PM   #3923
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There is 36 Tesla stock analyst from different investment firms and my understanding is that zero of them include FSD on their price targets .
That sir is incorrect. I probably log 15-20 hours or cnbc listening a week and analysts are always on talking about Tesla FSD. Current subscriptions, future subscriptions are factored into the stock. Full self driving without assist is also factored into future earnings as a driver for growth. It is discussed weekly that FSD subscriptions and growth of with current and future customers provide almost 100% profit with significant revenue per vehicle. Itís also factored into Teslas own growth projections as you need to grow revenue YOY and FSD subscriptions add a meaningful amount of revenue and profit to Tesla.
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:50 PM   #3924
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That sir is incorrect. I probably log 15-20 hours or cnbc listening a week and analysts are always on talking about Tesla FSD. Current subscriptions, future subscriptions are factored into the stock. Full self driving without assist is also factored into future earnings as a driver for growth. It is discussed weekly that FSD subscriptions and growth of with current and future customers provide almost 100% profit with significant revenue per vehicle. Itís also factored into Teslas own growth projections as you need to grow revenue YOY and FSD subscriptions add a meaningful amount of revenue and profit to Tesla.
LOL you think CNBS represents an accurate view of analysts and investment firms??? 15-20 hours... your brain must be swiss cheese by now.

The actual ones, you know the ones who actually control billions of dollars in capital, are mostly valuing FSD at $0. Even most retail investors are treating FSD as a free call option.
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Old 12-12-2022, 03:01 PM   #3925
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LOL you think CNBS represents an accurate view of analysts and investment firms??? 15-20 hours... your brain must be swiss cheese by now.

The actual ones, you know the ones who actually control billions of dollars in capital, are mostly valuing FSD at $0. Even most retail investors are treating FSD as a free call option.
You do realize cnbc covers the largest and most notable investment firms and Wall Street analyst. I mean, the station is solely focused on the stock market, itís all they cover, the donít typically report some shrimp dick analyst or firm.

Please for the love of god tell me youíre not confusing cnbc with msnbc.
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