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Old 11-22-2022, 08:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Russ_G93 View Post
So literally everything you could do yourself on any car you own now needs to be paid for, such is the new world electricity order lol
This is what happens when governments print trillions of dollars, the easy money creates all sorts of distortions. Everyone will have to adjust to the end of easy money, including BMW.
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Old 11-22-2022, 09:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
This is what happens when governments print trillions of dollars, the easy money creates all sorts of distortions. Everyone will have to adjust to the end of easy money, including BMW.
Are you referring to the oil industry and all of the subsides they've gotten over generations? And the fact that auto makers are making less profit per car on EV's than ICE vehicles?

Because increasing subsidies on EV's to match that of oil and gas wouldn't go over well, but if it could somehow increase profits, maybe stupid ideas like this wouldn't be needed.


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Old 11-22-2022, 10:44 PM   #28
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Are you referring to the oil industry and all of the subsides they've gotten over generations? And the fact that auto makers are making less profit per car on EV's than ICE vehicles?

Because increasing subsidies on EV's to match that of oil and gas wouldn't go over well, but if it could somehow increase profits, maybe stupid ideas like this wouldn't be needed.


I agree with that, but no, I'm talking more generally about the last 13 years where the global central banks pumped something on the order of $50 trillion of newly created money into financial assets. This exploded luxury car sales and made companies like BMW very arrogant.

Now that inflation has struck and central banks are reversing this easy money policy, it'll be a rude awakening for companies like BMW and Porsche who thrived on ever increasing asset bubbles.
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Old 11-22-2022, 10:45 PM   #29
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This is what happens when governments print trillions of dollars, the easy money creates all sorts of distortions. Everyone will have to adjust to the end of easy money, including BMW.
This has nothing to do with the Government and is just pure capitalism with businesses seeing a way to generate more profit and revenue with an on going income stream. I don’t agree with it but blaming the government for corporations seeing an opportunity for a new revenue stream is pretty ridiculous. The auto industry is not alone in trying to do this shift which I think will not end well.
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:31 AM   #30
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I agree with that, but no, I'm talking more generally about the last 13 years where the global central banks pumped something on the order of $50 trillion of newly created money into financial assets. This exploded luxury car sales and made companies like BMW very arrogant.

Now that inflation has struck and central banks are reversing this easy money policy, it'll be a rude awakening for companies like BMW and Porsche who thrived on ever increasing asset bubbles.
I see where you're head is at.

I think something like this would have happened regardless. They've been testing the waters for years. Tesla pioneered this type of garbage, so we can thank them for it. Good 'ol American greed at it's finest.

The only way to protect ourselves is to make this nonsense illegal.
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Old 11-23-2022, 07:51 AM   #31
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This has nothing to do with the Government and is just pure capitalism with businesses seeing a way to generate more profit and revenue with an on going income stream. I don’t agree with it but blaming the government for corporations seeing an opportunity for a new revenue stream is pretty ridiculous. The auto industry is not alone in trying to do this shift which I think will not end well.
This guy gets it. As I mentioned in my post on the first page, it’s called a recurring revenue model, auto industry is not the first to try it. Simply put it’s late stage capitalism shenanigans. But, government is also complicit as it’s in the pockets of corporations and lacks the balls to implement regulations. Sad thing is guys like Vermit is clearly upset about these capitalist shenanigans but too much Faux news redirects his anger in misplaced places such as the printing money myth. Any regulation talks to him and his ilk would be: “ZoMg KoMuNiSm LeT FrEe MArKeT Be” lol wellllll enjoy your free market subscriptions bud

Last edited by mcarb002; 11-23-2022 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 11-23-2022, 10:48 AM   #32
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That Benz stuff is just like how Dodge is going forward with their Muscle EV cars. You want to modify them? You have to go to the dealer for Dodge connection and only the dealer.
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Old 11-29-2022, 07:57 PM   #33
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Mercedes Says Law Is Preventing EV Performance Boost Subscriptions in Europe
https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-says-l...utm_source=YPL

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By now you may have caught wind of Mercedes’ wonderful idea to allow owners of EQ models to unlock more horsepower through a yearly subscription. It costs $1,200 and, depending on the particular model, could reduce 0-60 times by as much as nine-tenths of a second. Mercedes can get away with that here in the States, but overseas, it’s running into some headwinds, as Top Gear Netherlands recently reported. Translated, the article reads.

In the US, Mercedes customers can increase the assets of their EQE or EQS software-wise for an amount of $1,200 a year. We expected this subscription to come to the Netherlands soon, but apparently it is not allowed by European legislation at the moment.

A spokesperson for Mercedes Netherlands reports to TopGear that the American colleagues are indeed offering more power through a subscription. In Europe, Mercedes will not yet offer subscriptions to add extra horsepower to electric models. The spokesperson says it ‘depends on legal matters.’

In the US, there are no legal objections to the subscriptions, but in Europe the legal department has yet to get started. In terms of content, Mercedes cannot yet say much about it, except that the fact that it is about engine power creates legal obstacles. Something BMW has no problems with with the seat heating subscription.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:39 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Are you referring to the oil industry and all of the subsides they've gotten over generations? And the fact that auto makers are making less profit per car on EV's than ICE vehicles?

Because increasing subsidies on EV's to match that of oil and gas wouldn't go over well, but if it could somehow increase profits, maybe stupid ideas like this wouldn't be needed.


sorry sick of this tired trope of a generalization. A great portion of those subsidies are tax breaks that ANY company who invests in research and exploration and development can take. If you want to trim the fat, lets not be a hypocrite. Lets trim it.

End all carbon credit purchases that needlessly put anything ICE car company at disadvantage and funnels money to all EV manufacturers.

Oil and Gas industry created our entire way of life, they created every single thing we touch, use and own. If they are getting subsidies beyond what any other company who invests in risky adventures are, and I am sure that they are to some degree, it benefits every single working American. Lower Petroleum prices lowers the cost of every single thing you buy. Every. Single. Thing.

One set of subsidies if you want to call it that improves the quality of life for everybody, while the other props up an inferior form of energy production for ideological purposes. But I know 'warmers' want their green energy no matter how unreliable it is.

We should be embracing green energy while maxing out oil production. We need both. The either / or idiocy is juvenile.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:30 PM   #35
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sorry sick of this tired trope of a generalization. A great portion of those subsidies are tax breaks that ANY company who invests in research and exploration and development can take.
This is just not true. The tax benefits to these companies to write off tangible and intangible drilling basically means that we, the tax payers, have paid for nearly all of the drilling equipment out there, however successful it was, or wasn't. They are literally written only for oil companies. Yes, other companies can write off some things, but the code literally has written into it items to benefit the oil industry alone.
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Oil and Gas industry created our entire way of life, they created every single thing we touch, use and own. If they are getting subsidies beyond what any other company who invests in risky adventures are, and I am sure that they are to some degree, it benefits every single working American. Lower Petroleum prices lowers the cost of every single thing you buy. Every. Single. Thing.
Yes, because that's what rich people do, they return that money back to the "regular" people... Oh wait, Charles Koch, one individual person, has an income that's over a billion dollars a year? And somehow you think taxpayers need to fund his drilling adventures? You can pay that **** on your own, I want my money in my pocket, let him fund his own exploration. I know that if I want to start up my own gig I don't get those same benefits.

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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
One set of subsidies if you want to call it that improves the quality of life for everybody, while the other props up an inferior form of energy production for ideological purposes. But I know 'warmers' want their green energy no matter how unreliable it is.
I recall texas recently suffering the shut down of 6 gas fired electricity plants in the middle of a heat wave, prompting a california-like energy crisis. And less than a year before that, natural gas, coal, nuclear, and wind all going down because of a winter storm, with natural gas having the largest impact... That's your definition of reliable?

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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
We should be embracing green energy while maxing out oil production. We need both. The either / or idiocy is juvenile.
Of course. We're in a transition period. But at some point oil's use for energy production will dwindle to zero... You and I won't be here for it, but it will happen as long as humans are still on the planet.
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:07 PM   #36
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You will own nothing.

Our very own Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where's the outrage?
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:07 PM   #37
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You will own nothing.

Our very own Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where’s the outrage?
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:14 PM   #38
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…but too much Faux news redirects his anger in misplaced places such as the printing money myth.
Are you saying there has not been money printing by our .gov?

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Old 12-04-2022, 01:19 PM   #39
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WE ARE NOT DICKING UP ANOTHER THREAD WITH POLITICS.

Thanks and have a wonderful Sunday.
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Old 12-06-2022, 12:14 PM   #40
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Polestar knows how to do it, one time charge
Polestar 2 gets 68-horsepower bump via optional over-the-air update
It costs about $17.50 per horsepower
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/06/...ade-available/
Quote:
Polestar is taking advantage of its over-the-air software updating system to give the long-range, dual-motor variant of the 2 a generous bump in horsepower — at a cost. Announced exclusively for North America, the performance upgrade costs about $17.50 per horsepower.

In its stock configuration, the dual-motor 2 packs 408 horsepower and 487 pound-feet of torque. The new performance upgrade increases those figures to 476 and 502, respectively. Polestar claims that beaming 68 horses and 15 pound-feet of twist to the 2's drivetrain drops the 0-60-mph time to 4.2 seconds, though it adds that the extra power is primarily noticeable between 44 and 80 mph. With the performance upgrade, the 2 accelerates from 50 to 75 mph in 2.2 seconds, which Polestar notes is half a second faster than the standard 2.

Drivers who want to verify those figures can use the new Performance application in the infotainment system (pictured in the gallery) to time 0 to 37, 50, 60 and 75 mph runs. The software includes a G-force meter as well, and it's also included in the optional Performance Pack.

Polestar charges a one-time $1,195 fee for the performance upgrade, and owners can download it from the comfort of their home without taking a trip to the nearest service center. It's linked to the car's VIN so it gets transferred to subsequent owners, Polestar told Autoblog.

Letting motorists pay to unlock additional features and more horsepower is becoming increasingly common in the automotive industry. In certain markets, Mercedes-Benz offers an acceleration increase for some of its EVs but charges a $1,200 annual subscription for it.
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Old 12-06-2022, 03:55 PM   #41
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Polestar knows how to do it, one time charge
Polestar 2 gets 68-horsepower bump via optional over-the-air update
It costs about $17.50 per horsepower
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/06/...ade-available/
Just because Polestar cut the sandwich diagonally, doesn't change the fact that it's still a s*** sandwich.
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Old 12-06-2022, 04:18 PM   #42
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at least it's a s#!t sandwich purchase, not a recurring subscription, i'm trying to be more positive.....
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:06 PM   #43
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I'll say it again.

Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where's the outrage?
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:06 PM   #44
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I’ll say it again.

Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where’s the outrage?
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:21 PM   #45
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Are you saying there has not been money printing by our .gov?

Correct. To be literal about it, the federal reserve creates most money with the click of a button, just like they destroy money by taxing with the click of a button, simply put they’re mostly computer transactions not physical printers going brrrrrrr. And, the receivers of all that money are banks, who then create even more money by means of deposits and loans. So, actually, banks are the generators of most of the money in circulation in our economy, not the “gumbit”…

But, even beyond all these technicalities, my post was mostly to say that our problems don’t stem from the amount of money being put into circulation by the government. Most people don’t even understand that we have a fiat currency, that taxes don’t fund anything (which is yet another myth), and how the federal government can afford anything it wants as its only limited by resources. But anyway, another can of worms, my point is that there’s many other factors that contribute to the decline of our middle class and economy.

Last edited by mcarb002; 12-06-2022 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 12-07-2022, 12:07 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
You will own nothing.

Our very own Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where's the outrage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
You will own nothing.

Our very own Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where’s the outrage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I'll say it again.

Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where's the outrage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I’ll say it again.

Subaru has been doing this **** for a while now. Where’s the outrage?
example of Subaru subscription / recurring service fee for "software" control of already installed "hardware"?
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Old 12-07-2022, 12:48 PM   #47
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I think thats a funny way to do business. So they sell you the product with the functionality, but say it costs more to "Unlock" said functionality, when in retrospect.. couldn't they have just made more money in the beginning by selling with the functionality from the Get-go? Who says one of these Thick-accent tech guys won't find a way around the charge, with some plug n play that they will sell from their Youtube channel lmao
It was super easy to get AAAD working on my phone to get Youtube and screen mirroring working on the Subaru 11.6in screen.
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Old 12-07-2022, 12:48 PM   #48
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Double.. inept-ness...

Last edited by Russ_G93; 12-07-2022 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 12-07-2022, 03:09 PM   #49
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KTM like Polestar above, when you buy some of their motorcycles have things disabled electronically that you then need to pay for to access (Quickshifter, riding modes, etc).

A number of companies do this; you can see it two ways.

1. It's the company stiffing their customers to access what they have already purchased.
2. Reduces variability in production and lowers entry cost so you only pay for the stuff you will use.

The monthly subscription is a complete money grab just like Office 365 and Photoshop.

Paying for a 3rd party add-on like SAT radio is one thing heated seats is just BS.
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Old 12-07-2022, 10:09 PM   #50
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example of Subaru subscription / recurring service fee for "software" control of already installed "hardware"?
Uh.. try the auto-start on my 2020 Ascent. Remote door lock/unlock etc.

I failed to re-up my 4th year renewal and *poof* no more auto-start.
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