Lexus Developing Manual Trans. For Electrics

SubaDuba420 · 12-06-2022, 12:09 PM

Lexus confirms development of a manual transmission on Electrified Sports flagship
'Not just a design concept,' chief engineer says
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/05/...-transmission/

Quote:

In February, unearthed patent filings indicated that Toyota might be working on a manual transmission for electric vehicles. It seemed rather far-fetched, and as we know many patented ideas never actually make it into production. However Toyota — or rather, its Lexus luxury performance division — is seriously working on this, as the company confirmed during a conference in Europe.

The system uses a physical gear shift, tachometer and third pedal. We hesitate to call it a clutch pedal because it's not actually connected to a clutch. Of course an EV wouldn't have a gearbox with actual gears and synchros, either. Everything is simulated via software.

Takashi Watanabe, chief engineer of Lexus Electrified, described it as a "simulated drive force map with pedal and shift positions to reproduce the feeling of a manual transmission." It's so realistic, though, that the driver even faces the possibility of stalling the car or rolling backwards on a hill start. And since the system is governed by ones and zeroes, each driver can choose their preferred "gearing" without having to swap out cogs of varying ratios.

"This new project all started with some Lexus engineers reflecting on what they liked about traditional [internal combustion] vehicles and what they had to miss out on with electric cars," said Watanabe. "[The] manual transmission was one thing they enjoyed in particular."

Tantalizingly, Watanabe revealed this technology while standing before the Lexus Electrified Sport concept, a car rumored to be an electric Lexus LFA successor. In practice, the transmission has been installed on a Lexus UX300e for testing. In a short video (we can't embed it, so click here and go to the 13:27 mark in "Lexus Deep Dive" ) the prototype weaves through a parking lot complete with simulated engine revs.

Watanabe said that the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

It certainly does look quite a bit livelier than a CVT-equipped UX, raising the question of what it would be like in a true sports car like the Electrified Sport. Fortunately, Watanabe had some positive news about the sleek concept that is claimed to go from 0-62 mph in around 2 seconds. "I cannot tell you when we will be launching a production vehicle based on the Electrified Sport. But I can confirm that we are working on it." He also affirmed that the manual transmission, along with all-wheel drive, steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire, were all being developed for the production version. "This is not just a design concept. It is meant to become reality."

Odd the company that had minimal to NO manuals in their ICEs would be the pioneer.....

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4S-TURBO · 12-06-2022, 12:36 PM

Exactly, they couldn't bother with their current batch of last generation V8s? Hell, even the V6 models would be nice.

dwf137 · 12-06-2022, 12:42 PM

This is about as stupid as Subaru's attempt to put "gears" in a CVT, except maybe worse because all it's going to do is reduce throttle responsiveness to simulate traditional ICE power curves.

one of my favorite things about my EV is the lack of gears. It accelerates linearly from stop. Really smooth, no chassis upsetting gear changes, and best of all, no need to "downshift" so that you're in the right rev range, it's always right.

People really need to stop looking backward. The EV drivetrain is superior. Maybe the battery situation, range, etc. is lesser, but the actual power delivery is far superior to ICE. Nostalgia is real... I can understand wanting a manual transmission, but go buy an ICE manual, don't try to make an EV into something nostalgic, it's not going to work and everyone is going to be disappointed.

SubaDuba420 · 12-06-2022, 01:04 PM

Lexus EV manual transmission concept \| evo NEWS - YouTube

4S-TURBO · 12-06-2022, 01:28 PM

Simulator the stimulator.

SCRAPPYDO · 12-06-2022, 03:00 PM

Could get to insane speeds though. As RPM increases in all EV, the torque drops. They are most efficient at 0 rpm. Maybe having several gears will increase range..???

bemani · 12-06-2022, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Could get to insane speeds though. As RPM increases in all EV, the torque drops. They are most efficient at 0 rpm. Maybe having several gears will increase range..???

No reason to make it a fake manual though.

When was their last manual? The IS250?

SCRAPPYDO · 12-06-2022, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bemani

No reason to make it a fake manual though.

When was their last manual? The IS250?

after watching the video, the concept seems weird to me. Why make it sound like an ICE car. That is dumb. EV's can sound good (Taycan sounds menacing) as they can sound like anything you want. I would want mine to sound like a tie fighter personally.

The intentional jerkiness is also stupid.

Sid03SVT · 12-06-2022, 03:46 PM

Lexus: "We're dropping manual transmissions from our lineup, because nobody buys manuals"

Also Lexus: "We're putting a simulated manual transmission in an EV!"

Is there a "Most asinine vehicle" award? Lexus here with the simulated MT EV, Toyota with the Crown SUS; guys you're on the same team! stop trying to out-stupid each other. Oh and I almost forgot Toyotas 4dr 2-seat hatchback, at least they are only making 200 of those..

Meanwhile, Subaru must be huffing the same glue with their $43k MSRP CVT WRX & the CVT only RS.

I usually knock Honda/Acura for their rebadge and reskin Acura models, but the Integra 'Type R' is probably the least ridiculous thing on the horizon right now.

dwf137 · 12-06-2022, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Could get to insane speeds though. As RPM increases in all EV, the torque drops. They are most efficient at 0 rpm. Maybe having several gears will increase range..???

Porsche has a 2 speed gearbox in the rear motor on the taycan.

This thing by lexus is just simulated, no gears.

SCRAPPYDO · 12-06-2022, 04:45 PM

yeah, copy that.

I thought for a second they were actually adding a gearbox. I should have known better.

good point, thanks.

SCRAPPYDO · 12-06-2022, 04:45 PM

yeah, copy that.

I thought for a second they were actually adding a gearbox. I should have known better.

good point, thanks.

VarmintCong · 12-06-2022, 09:36 PM

Can they add a steering wheel in the back seat so my kids can feel like they're driving?

SubaDuba420 · 12-07-2022, 12:10 AM

Do they 3rd pedal??

Kostamojen · 12-07-2022, 01:25 AM

Theoretically, someone could develop an eletric motor tied to a traditional transmission. You could limit the torque from the motor to prevent grenading the trans immediately and have it rev to crazy numbers for fun, maybe even attach some kind of mechanical noise aperatus to the spinning motor to give it noise.

Of course developing all that would including throwing out the concern about efficiency enitrely in the name of experience. No big name manufacturer would ever do tbat, would have to be one of the more boutique brands.

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12-06-2022, 12:36 PM	#2
4S-TURBO Scooby Guru Member#: 67807 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC	Exactly, they couldn't bother with their current batch of last generation V8s? Hell, even the V6 models would be nice.

12-06-2022, 12:42 PM	#3
dwf137 Scooby Specialist Member#: 161333 Join Date: Oct 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: snoco wa Vehicle: 20 Yami XSR fast leaf	This is about as stupid as Subaru's attempt to put "gears" in a CVT, except maybe worse because all it's going to do is reduce throttle responsiveness to simulate traditional ICE power curves. one of my favorite things about my EV is the lack of gears. It accelerates linearly from stop. Really smooth, no chassis upsetting gear changes, and best of all, no need to "downshift" so that you're in the right rev range, it's always right. People really need to stop looking backward. The EV drivetrain is superior. Maybe the battery situation, range, etc. is lesser, but the actual power delivery is far superior to ICE. Nostalgia is real... I can understand wanting a manual transmission, but go buy an ICE manual, don't try to make an EV into something nostalgic, it's not going to work and everyone is going to be disappointed.

12-06-2022, 01:28 PM	#5
4S-TURBO Scooby Guru Member#: 67807 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC	Simulator the stimulator.

12-06-2022, 03:00 PM	#6
SCRAPPYDO Scooby Guru Member#: 873 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: www.testdrivemylife.com Vehicle: 2020 JEEP / RAM Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000	Could get to insane speeds though. As RPM increases in all EV, the torque drops. They are most efficient at 0 rpm. Maybe having several gears will increase range..???

12-06-2022, 03:46 PM	#9
Sid03SVT Scooby Specialist Member#: 183032 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: CT Vehicle: RWD Camry Pull me over red	Lexus: "We're dropping manual transmissions from our lineup, because nobody buys manuals" Also Lexus: "We're putting a simulated manual transmission in an EV!" Is there a "Most asinine vehicle" award? Lexus here with the simulated MT EV, Toyota with the Crown SUS; guys you're on the same team! stop trying to out-stupid each other. Oh and I almost forgot Toyotas 4dr 2-seat hatchback, at least they are only making 200 of those.. Meanwhile, Subaru must be huffing the same glue with their $43k MSRP CVT WRX & the CVT only RS. I usually knock Honda/Acura for their rebadge and reskin Acura models, but the Integra 'Type R' is probably the least ridiculous thing on the horizon right now.

12-06-2022, 04:45 PM	#11
SCRAPPYDO Scooby Guru Member#: 873 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: www.testdrivemylife.com Vehicle: 2020 JEEP / RAM Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000	yeah, copy that. I thought for a second they were actually adding a gearbox. I should have known better. good point, thanks.

12-06-2022, 09:36 PM	#13
VarmintCong Scooby Specialist Member#: 379605 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Peabody, MA Vehicle: 2017 Civic Sport 2012 Outback 2.5	Can they add a steering wheel in the back seat so my kids can feel like they're driving?

12-07-2022, 12:10 AM	#14
SubaDuba420 Scooby Specialist Member#: 102793 Join Date: Dec 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Vehicle: 2016 WRX Ugly Sedan	Do they 3rd pedal??

12-07-2022, 01:25 AM	#15
Kostamojen Scooby Guru Member#: 2272 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Fire Caves Vehicle: 2019 Macan 4cyl 1993 Impreza FWD WRX swap	Theoretically, someone could develop an eletric motor tied to a traditional transmission. You could limit the torque from the motor to prevent grenading the trans immediately and have it rev to crazy numbers for fun, maybe even attach some kind of mechanical noise aperatus to the spinning motor to give it noise. Of course developing all that would including throwing out the concern about efficiency enitrely in the name of experience. No big name manufacturer would ever do tbat, would have to be one of the more boutique brands.