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Old 07-09-2018, 11:18 AM   #1
WORD
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Default FIXED! Crank, no start after top feed conversion: 2006 STi

FIXED! See last post.

Looking for some troubleshooting help on this extremely specific case. Thanks in advance.

Details:
-2006 STi - worked perfect prior to conversion
-2015 STI fuel rail
-2015 STI TGV housings (deleted internals)
-2006 STi FPR relocated to return line near d/s firewall before check valve
-New 1200cc FIC plug and play injectors, designed for this application
-New AEM 340lph fuel pump (confirmed working prior to conversion)
-New full tank e85 fuel (tested at 85%)

Procedure:
1.) Removed manifold, connectors, rails
2.) Attached 2015 STI fuel rail to 2006 STi manifold
3.) Attached TGV housings to manifold (modified holes to fit)
4.) Installed injectors, tightened bolts on rail to secure them in place
5.) Re-installed manifold+TGV assembly on car
6a.) Ensured all electrical, vacuum, and fuel connections were complete; this was a several hour process and included all grounds were secured
6b.) There are four total unused connectors (2/side), which I believe hooked up to OEM TGV motors/actuators, but this car had sidefeed TGV deletes so I'm not certain; this could be part of my problem
7.) Mounted 2006 STi FPR to return line near firewall
8.) Flashed my tuner's base tune via AccessPort
9.) Primed fuel pump; it primes and sends pressure to fuel lines under hood
10.) Attempted to start - it cranks but does not fire

I hope that's helpful. I understand this could be several things. I'm hoping someone that converted to top feed using OEM parts like I did can assist - otherwise, it looks like I'm diagnosing a typical crank/no start issue.

Thank you.
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Last edited by WORD; 07-23-2018 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:54 PM   #2
Turpid Porpoise
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Are you getting an RPM reading while trying to crank? Have you pulled the plugs to see if they smell like fuel?
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:03 PM   #3
WORD
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I am getting an RPM reading while cranking - 150-175 on the AccessPort. I assume you're diagnosing the crank position sensor, which good call, that'd certainly keep it from running.

I haven't pulled the plugs yet to see if they're wet. Will add to the list of things to check.

Car is a couple hours away, hence compiling a list, but I can pass instructions on.

Thank you.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:28 PM   #4
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Check if you are getting fuel or not by pulling plugs immediately after cranking.

If not, pull the pump relay and then disconnect the injector harness - using alligator clips, attach one to each pin of the relay and tap the other end of the jumpers to the 12V battery positive and negative terminals. Be sure to TAP - DO NOT HOLD!!!

Once you hear clicking, move to the next.

What happens (fairly rarely) is that the solvent used in cleaning new injectors can cause sticking if they sit too long before fuel flushes them out. I've had it happen twice and you'll chase this issue forever.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:57 PM   #5
WORD
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Interesting - it does seem unlikely, but something to note.

I'm not sure I'm following you exactly, but perhaps that's because it's just a new process for me. Do you have a reference to documentation on this? I'll search around myself too. Thank you.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:26 PM   #6
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My reference is two different injector companies telling me to do this over the phone in the past.

You're just giving the injector full voltage for a brief moment which is enough 'oompf' to break the caked-on layer of dried solvent.

In any case, you're either missing fuel or spark - until we know which by you checking the plugs, we're all guessing.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
You're just giving the injector full voltage for a brief moment which is enough 'oompf' to break the caked-on layer of dried solvent.
Ah that makes sense, thanks. Yes, I hope to have an update on this thread soon regarding fuel vs spark missing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:02 AM   #8
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Make sure your fuel lines are flowing the right way, I swapped mine around on accident when I did my new lines. Stupid obvious mistake but it happens.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:31 AM   #9
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Hello all, wanted to come back on this thread with a start-up issue that Iím facing on my 2009 WRX.
The video at the bottom summarizes the issue (I think I may have been cranking it a bit too long on this occasion). So far the car has been starting up after a few cranks. Up to 4 except the last time this evening when I had to go up to about 6 (problem seems to get worse). Iíve had the issue since about 3 days now and am planning to take it to the shop on Friday when I finally have some free time from work. Any input in the interim would be of great help.

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Old 07-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabyjoe View Post
Hello all, wanted to come back on this thread with a start-up issue that Iím facing on my 2009 WRX.
The video at the bottom summarizes the issue (I think I may have been cranking it a bit too long on this occasion). So far the car has been starting up after a few cranks. Up to 4 except the last time this evening when I had to go up to about 6 (problem seems to get worse). Iíve had the issue since about 3 days now and am planning to take it to the shop on Friday when I finally have some free time from work. Any input in the interim would be of great help.

https://youtu.be/JddN_mmDOp0
Your pump may be a little tired and it might not be priming fully.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:06 AM   #11
Turpid Porpoise
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What is your battery voltage with the key off? Do you have a fuel pressure gauge anywhere?
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #12
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I had the battery checked. Itís perfect changed it only about 6 months ago.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:19 AM   #13
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No fuel pressure gauge
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #14
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While forcing an injector with outside volts sounds valid, recheck grounds that were touched.
Is one loose?
Did you attach it to the wrong spot (thinking plastic intake manifold)?

I would be rechecking "stupid stuff" before harder bits.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:01 PM   #15
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C-III hit the nail on the head - if you're not getting a CEL, the issue is not a 'smart' issue; it's something little. Things like this are very difficult to track down, but usually involve checking the harness at various points with a multimeter and a buddy wiggling wires elsewhere.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:38 PM   #16
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Alright, super brief update. FYI car is at my dad's so he's checking things remotely since he's a couple hours away.

Anyway, there's no sounds coming from the injectors when cranking - should there be any clicking noise during startup? He's spraying some fuel in the intake tonight to see if it's at least getting spark. If nothing, he'll pull a plug to see if it's wet with fuel.

I should note: I hooked up the OEM 06 STI FPR to OEM 2015 fuel rails. It's still on the return (after all four injectors), it's just mounted to the firewall now instead of under the intake manifold where it was from the factory (2008+ STIs moved the FPRs to near the firewall - I copied this design, essentially). Is there something drastically different about the way the 2015 rail gets fuel that I'm missing? Long shot since the design is simple - just pipes and hoses - but thought I'd ask.

Hope to have a more positive update for y'all soon.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:42 PM   #17
WORD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
While forcing an injector with outside volts sounds valid, recheck grounds that were touched.
Is one loose?
Did you attach it to the wrong spot (thinking plastic intake manifold)?

I would be rechecking "stupid stuff" before harder bits.
Not sure if you intended that for me or sabyjoe, but I can confirm my grounds are hooked up. The previous owner even installed one of those HKS "grounding kits," which is hooked up the same way I took it off. I don't believe in those from an upgrade standpoint, but I think it'd only be helping me in this situation, no?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:45 PM   #18
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You usually can't hear the clicking over the starter.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 PM   #19
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Sounds about right, no pun intended. But what if you used a screwdriver? My dad said he put one end on the injectors, the other end in his ear, and had someone else turn the car over.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:49 PM   #20
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You can try it, but there's not a ton of room around the injectors to get in there on these cars.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:30 AM   #21
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If you posted pics, I can't see them, so I'll ask anyway - are you certain the feed/return lines are hooked up correctly? I've put them on wrong a bunch of times, the pump sounds like it primes but the car just doesn't start.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:57 AM   #22
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Is the ecu tuned for your new injectors? I looked through and I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:06 PM   #23
WORD
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drew: yes, I'm fairly certain they're installed correctly. Feed to top line, return to "middle" and vent to bottom, coming out of the rail on the driver's side of the intake manifold. The only thing I'm not 100% certain about is the FPR (see my last post); I'm about 90% sure it's setup correctly (return goes into side of FPR, out of bottom)...it's just mounted in a different location. Fuel is also making it to the FPR (post injectors) - confirmed by removing the line from the side of FPR and priming the fuel pump...and spraying e85 everywhere.

rhino: yes, my tuner's base map is currently flashed on the ecu. I tried my old e85 tune too just to see if it would start - no luck.

My dad was unable to spray starter fluid last night, but will get to it tonight. That should indicate if there's spark and hopefully help narrow this to fuel delivery from the injectors.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:49 PM   #24
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Random thought but did you use the right combination of orings in your fuel pump install? I know that the pump is working and sprayed fuel but do you have a gauge anywhere to verify that it is reaching the proper pressures?
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
Random thought but did you use the right combination of orings in your fuel pump install? I know that the pump is working and sprayed fuel but do you have a gauge anywhere to verify that it is reaching the proper pressures?
You know, I'm not sure what o-rings you're referring to. There was a Walbro 255 in place. I removed it and replaced with the AEM 340. I didn't touch any o-rings since it was a direct replacement (even the elec connection was PnP).

Now, the injectors were supplied with o-rings mounted on them. They fit nice and snug, but not too snug, when sandwiched between the rail and TGV housing.
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