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Old 05-21-2019, 04:40 PM   #726
mhoward1
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
wait, you mean I am not the most annoying person here anymore...


I am so proud. I knew I had mellowed.
You were never the most annoying


Maybe top 5, but never number 1

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Old 05-21-2019, 04:51 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
You were never the most annoying


Maybe top 5, but never number 1

I always liked you.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:07 PM   #728
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I always liked you.
You’re the member we don’t deserve but we need.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:51 PM   #729
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I might get points for this, but it’s worth stating. The tech and engineering that Tesla has deployed for their vehicles has paved the way for consumers as well as other manufacturers of EVs. Tesla’s value as a company goes beyond the profit loss columns. Tesla has clearly reached government bail out status should ever it come to it. So I don’t know why “failure” is so important to people evaluating their cars. Anyone who can’t objectively look at Tesla and see the big picture is one of the following: dumb, belligerent, blindly opinionated.

That said I don’t own one. I just bought a SL55amg that costs $60 to fill up and gets the gas mileage of a Lincoln Navigator pulling a boat. So you can suck on my carbon footprint battery nerds. Oh yeah.... and I can get a massage while busting out the 1/4 in 12 seconds with the top down.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:35 PM   #730
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I always liked you.
We have so much in common, and yet can be polar opposites.

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Old 05-21-2019, 08:37 PM   #731
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I like the graphs.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:33 PM   #732
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I might get points for this, but it’s worth stating. The tech and engineering that Tesla has deployed for their vehicles has paved the way for consumers as well as other manufacturers of EVs. Tesla’s value as a company goes beyond the profit loss columns. Tesla has clearly reached government bail out status should ever it come to it. So I don’t know why “failure” is so important to people evaluating their cars. Anyone who can’t objectively look at Tesla and see the big picture is one of the following: dumb, belligerent, blindly opinionated.

That said I don’t own one. I just bought a SL55amg that costs $60 to fill up and gets the gas mileage of a Lincoln Navigator pulling a boat. So you can suck on my carbon footprint battery nerds. Oh yeah.... and I can get a massage while busting out the 1/4 in 12 seconds with the top down.
Couple things.

They were already bailed out.
Secondly, they don’t need another one. If they go bottoms up, someone will acquire the technology and keep moving forward. Thinking the government should extend the tit to all these companies is beyond ridiculous.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:40 PM   #733
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Tesla was bailed out?
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:58 PM   #734
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They got a 465M loan not a grant that they paid back.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:03 PM   #735
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
They got a 465M loan not a grant that they paid back.
A loan is a bailout. Banks wouldn’t lend, investors would give cash. It was a bailout / assistance no matter which way you spin it and they would have been up ****s creek without it.

Last edited by godfather2112; 05-21-2019 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:18 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
A loan is a bailout. Banks wouldn’t lend, investors would give cash. It was a bailout no matter which way you spin it. Chevy and Dodge were both given loans by the government, aka a bailout.


The big 3 got 25B bailout because of bankruptcy concerns

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-rep...ne-years-early

Quote:
. Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early
Only American Car Company to Have Paid Back Government
May 22, 2013
PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today’s wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.

For the first seven years since its founding in 2003, Tesla was funded entirely with private funds, led by Elon Musk. Tesla brought its Roadster sports car to market with a 30% gross margin, designed electric powertrains for Daimler (Mercedes) and had done preliminary design of the Model S all before receiving a government loan.

In 2010, Tesla was awarded a milestone-based loan, requiring matching private capital obtained via public offering, by the DOE as part of the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program. This program was signed into law by President Bush in 2008 and then awarded under the Obama administration in the years that followed. This program is often confused with the financial bailouts provided to the then bankrupt GM and Chrysler, who were ineligible for the ATVM program, because a requirement of that program was good financial health.

The loan payment was made today using a portion of the approximately $1 billion in funds raised in last week’s concurrent offerings of common stock and convertible senior notes. Elon Musk, Tesla’s Chief Executive Officer and cofounder, purchased $100 million of common equity, the least secure portion of the offering. “I would like to thank the Department of Energy and the members of Congress and their staffs that worked hard to create the ATVM program, and particularly the American taxpayer from whom these funds originate,” said Elon Musk. “I hope we did you proud.”
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:33 AM   #737
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^This is what I've wanted to understand from the beginning. Do you say this because you actually believe it, and if so, why, or are you being disingenuous in order to protect your financial well-being?

I know myself and others have explained it to you at least a few times over the years, yet here we are again. I still truly want to understand the Teslan psyche.

bdubblu same question, although I don't remember replying to you before, so cog dissonance not necessarily in play as above.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:30 AM   #738
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You can like the product and dislike/put up with questionable corporate governance.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:33 AM   #739
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I think Tesla has done some great things. I don't really have anything against their products besides some of the obvious issues, nothing is perfect and Tesla is not alone in having issues.

Having said that, it's always amusing how some people turn a blind eye to any shortcoming of a company's product no matter what. It's not only Tesla that has such followers and I'm sure we all have a certain brand of something we are biased towards.

This guy has a view on the topic:

Quote:
So, to all the Teslarati out there who can broach no criticism of your messiah, I have a message for you: Not only are you possibly the stupidest people on the planet, you’re actually an impediment to that which you so loudly proclaim to be most devoted — namely the popularization of zero-emissions electric vehicles. Every time you discount news of Model 3 build quality; every time you pooh-pooh reports of Tesla’s fiscal fragility; every single time you defend yet another of Musk’s excesses — proclaiming Autopilot ready for full autonomy when it’s resulted in another fatal collision just the tip of the iceberg — one more mainstream consumer becomes convinced that all EV owners are [email protected]!t crazy and refuses to believe anything you say.
https://driving.ca/tesla/features/fe...s-its-fan-club
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:07 PM   #740
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Model 3 dual motor beats the new BMW 330 series and Genesis G70 in Motor Trend comparison test

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:33 PM   #741
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Model 3 dual motor beats the new BMW 330 series and Genesis G70 in Motor Trend comparison test

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/
Okay, this comparison test is completely messed up. So they tested the top level dual motor 3 vs two lower level, lower powered, lower priced, RWD vehicles? I mean, the G70 and 3 series do have higher trim, 6 cylinder, AWD models too. This is not a knock against Tesla but a knock against Motortrend.

That's like comparing the Golf R vs Civic Si vs BRZ.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:55 PM   #742
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
A loan is a bailout. Banks wouldn’t lend, investors would give cash. It was a bailout / assistance no matter which way you spin it and they would have been up ****s creek without it.
And as he said Detroit did the same thing, 100 year old companies, not 10 year old companies doing it with a completely different and new technology. Banks and investment houses needed and received bail outs as well as other sector companies. This isn't new, original, and like he also said, they paid it back, with interest iirc.

And as the other poster said, they have paved the way. Look at every other major company right now dumping millions if not billions into EV's. They all look like a bunch of suckers. A start up beat them ALL to the punch and now they are copying, yet Tesla gets the brunt of the bs from the gallery. It is comical.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:59 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Okay, this comparison test is completely messed up. So they tested the top level dual motor 3 vs two lower level, lower powered, lower priced, RWD vehicles? I mean, the G70 and 3 series do have higher trim, 6 cylinder, AWD models too. This is not a knock against Tesla but a knock against Motortrend.

That's like comparing the Golf R vs Civic Si vs BRZ.
Would love to see a comparison of a bare bones standard range ($35k one without autopilot) vs bare bones 3 series and Genesis (even Audi A4).
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:00 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
You need to stop with your post whoring. You contribute close to dick nothing that’s constructive or usually worth talking about. But let me rip that article apart, and you for a moment.

The same person who wrote that article at Morgan Stanley also has a $230 price target. Saying “worst case scenario” it could be a $10 means dick nothing. It’s literally a “look at me” empty article with not material value and damn near every analyst, even Tesla bears thinks it’s ridiculous.

Is this how you are in real life? Just a miserable and annoying person who just fumes with negativity. You are exactly the opposite of Juanmedina. Drop a post, and bail from it. Except, you’re far more annoying than Juanmedina is.
there are 2 sides to every story and many also think Tesla is doomed. perhaps you should make 2 threads, one for each side. I just hate to see young people investing in a very unsound high risk venture without knowing whole story.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:03 PM   #745
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I like Tesla's products (having just purchased one), but I wouldn't touch their stock with a 10 foot pole.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:08 PM   #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Okay, this comparison test is completely messed up. So they tested the top level dual motor 3 vs two lower level, lower powered, lower priced, RWD vehicles? I mean, the G70 and 3 series do have higher trim, 6 cylinder, AWD models too. This is not a knock against Tesla but a knock against Motortrend.

That's like comparing the Golf R vs Civic Si vs BRZ.
So they based it off of price. I guess it would depend if the upper trim models fall into the same price range.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:17 PM   #747
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Have a Nice Day?

My friend bought a black Model 3 for his wife.
Got jealous.
Then bought a Model 3 Performance for himself.

Remember back when the Prius was the car to have?
Back and forth arguments/discussions like...

"Why buy a Prius? It'll take you 75,000 miles to break even vs buying a used economy car!"

Look, some people have a lot of disposable income.
The argument against buying a Tesla (in your opinion) doesn't matter to a lot of Tesla owners.
And there are so many here in Southern California, that I have never witnessed any smugness.
So, that's my opinion and perception from this part of the country.


/that's all I got
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:25 PM   #748
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People should be allowed to buy whatever the hell they want to buy. If that is an F350 to pick up a water hose, or a Ferrari to hard park at cars and coffee, or a Tesla because you like what it stands for. Who cares. Tesla is another option, nothing more, nothing less. It offers another way to get from point a to point b. It is not for everybody and does not have to be.

Choice is the greatest freedom
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:57 PM   #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
So they based it off of price. I guess it would depend if the upper trim models fall into the same price range.
The 6cyl 340i xDrive starts at 56k and the G70 3.3T V6 Awd starts at 46k which better aligns with the Long Range AWD 3 base price. At least they all are better matched performance wise and then they can compare what each has or doesn't have to compare price/value proposition. MT didn't even opt for AWD in the BMW and Genesis base models. If they wanted to compare those specific trims, they should have selected the Standard RWD 3.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:30 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
there are 2 sides to every story and many also think Tesla is doomed. perhaps you should make 2 threads, one for each side. I just hate to see young people investing in a very unsound high risk venture without knowing whole story.
Then post it in the investment threads in OT.
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