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Old 10-07-2024, 01:27 PM   #1
dwf137
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Default EV Fires Could be Thwarted

https://www.motortrend.com/news/lg-c...on-technology/

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Thermal runaway that could lead to a rare but dangerous EV battery pack fire is not only a scary concept, but it's also the sort of fire that's incredibly difficult to put out as each battery cell begins to cascade towards failure and feed more fuel into the fire itself. Right now, there is no direct solution to prevent this cell runaway phenomenon and the only solution to stop an EV fire is to douse the vehicle in hundreds or thousands of gallons of water. We say “right now” because LG Chem appears to have found a rather simple solution to the threat of runaway EV fires: a thermal fuse, of sorts.

As it published in Nature Communications—a scientific journal—LG Chem claims it has created a “temperature-responsive material” that’s 1/100th the diameter of an average human hair. This means the material is thin enough to be placed between the cathode layer (the “ground” or negative side) and the current collector (the part that creates the anode or the positive side) of the battery cell without removing any significant amount of energy density. A reduction in energy density has been a major issue with using any sort of internal extinguisher along with reaction time of the suppressant. Considering that thermal runaway is a rare event, the benefits of an internal suppressant were outweighed by the reduction of energy density these safety devices have. With LG Chems thermal “fuse,” that excuse will now hopefully go out the window.

At the early stages of thermal runaway, this material acts as a fuse of sorts and will either stop or significantly reduce the temperature increase by preventing the battery from shorting within itself. The material does this not by suddenly blowing open like a fuse you’re used to, but instead the rise in temperature causes the material to become more resistive to electricity. According to the study, for every 33 to 34 degrees in temperature rise, the material gains up to 5 kilohms of energy resistance. It can also reverse the process and decrease resistance by the same amount of heat reduction. This resistance is also enough to block the reaction path between anode and cathode during this early stage of thermal runaway.

Testing was performed with a Lithium Cobalt Oxide and Nickel Cobalt Manganese (NCM) battery packs. It showed that this material works when the battery pack is impacted or punctured and, when it doesn’t fully prevent a battery fire, it acts as a suppression material—the material doesn’t ignite—and allows the flames to be extinguished shortly after appearing and preventing further thermal damage and fire. Specifically, for NCM battery testing, a 22-pound weight was dropped on both packs with and without LG Chem’s thermal fuse. All batteries without the thermal fuse caught fire, according to the study. For the batteries with the thermal fuse, 70 percent did not ignite while 30 percent did flame up but were extinguished within seconds.

The only catch, now, is that testing has only truly begun. Scaling up to larger capacity battery packs—ones used in EVs, as highlighted by the study—are to begin in 2025. It seems that the CTO of LG Chem, Lee Jong-gu, believes this safety feature will come sooner rather than later: “This is a tangible research achievement that can be applied to mass production in a short period of time. We will enhance safety technology to ensure customers can use electric vehicles with confidence and contribute to strengthening our competitiveness in the battery market.” We’re sure that many firefighters and motorsports events are probably begging LG Chem to make this technology a top priority.
Hopefully they can scale this up quickly. Sounds promising.
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Old 10-07-2024, 03:18 PM   #2
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I was watching a few videos of people's Rivian trucks being just fine even after the flooding had moved the them down the street. Lucky few I suppose. Although it makes sense for an offroad vehicle to have some sort of water protection, vs something like a Tesla being made for the pavement only.
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Old 10-07-2024, 05:26 PM   #3
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I wonder how much this will add to the price?
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Old 10-07-2024, 08:12 PM   #4
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This is one of many reasons I won't go anywhere near owning an EV.

Whatever price to fix this nonsense is the right price.
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Old 10-07-2024, 08:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
This is one of many reasons I won't go anywhere near owning an EV.

Whatever price to fix this nonsense is the right price.
Because they catch on fire much less often than ICE?

Cool technology, though.
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Old 10-08-2024, 12:17 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Because they catch on fire much less often than ICE?

Cool technology, though.



Exactly. Haven't even heard of any here. We've been through training; but, it just "doesn't happen". This will be great to reduce the low amount that does happen. I'd be more interested in a deployable suppressant for when it does. Don't need a "greek fire" while trying to cut someone out of a car. Or just in general.
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Old 10-08-2024, 01:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Because they catch on fire much less often than ICE?

Cool technology, though.
I can’t believe people are so easily programmed by the media. ICE fires are more frequent. They just don’t get the clickbait.
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Old 10-08-2024, 04:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Because they catch on fire much less often than ICE?

Cool technology, though.
what's the point of coming up with some material that can thwart EV fires if EV fires aren't a real threat?

and anyway, while I can't find data to back it up, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of EV fires that occur overnight in a garage are much higher than the incidents of ICE fires that occur overnight in a garage.

while yeah, just having a car burn down sucks, if it happens on a highway, then insurance gets me a new car.

having a car that cannot be easily extinguished burn down in my garage attached to my house though? I lose a heck of a lot more than just my car in a fire on the side of a freeway.
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Old 10-08-2024, 08:11 PM   #9
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The point is they happen rarely but are relatively hard to put out.
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Old 10-09-2024, 01:19 AM   #10
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I wonder how much this will add to the price?
And if it will therefore push more manufacturers to LFP, which is more stable but not as energy dense.
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Old 10-09-2024, 09:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
what's the point of coming up with some material that can thwart EV fires if EV fires aren't a real threat?

and anyway, while I can't find data to back it up, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of EV fires that occur overnight in a garage are much higher than the incidents of ICE fires that occur overnight in a garage.

while yeah, just having a car burn down sucks, if it happens on a highway, then insurance gets me a new car.

having a car that cannot be easily extinguished burn down in my garage attached to my house though? I lose a heck of a lot more than just my car in a fire on the side of a freeway.
Exactly. ICE cars won’t go full nuclear in my garage at 1:00am, burning my house down, taking me and my family with it.

It’s IS an issue, however small.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:48 PM   #12
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It's not worth worrying about. You're orders of magnitude more likely (perhaps even infinitely more likely - I don't even know if there's been one EV fire death in the US) to die from falling in your own house than you are to die from an EV fire.

And ICE cars do, in fact, catch on fire spontaneously and can easily burn a house down and take out its occupants.

We have EVs parked under our kids' rooms and in attached garages for 10 years. I have zero concern about it.
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Old 10-09-2024, 06:16 PM   #13
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This is a good thing. It is not about bashing EV or ICE. Making fires more easily controls. Really nobody loses here.
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Old 10-09-2024, 09:40 PM   #14
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This is a good thing. It is not about bashing EV or ICE. Making fires more easily controls. Really nobody loses here.
Precisely my thought. This is a win-win, nobody loses here.

fwiw, I very rarely park our EV in the garage. I do when I go to public parking garages, and when we're leaving for trips in the summer, that's about it.
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Old 10-10-2024, 12:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
what's the point of coming up with some material that can thwart EV fires if EV fires aren't a real threat?

and anyway, while I can't find data to back it up, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of EV fires that occur overnight in a garage are much higher than the incidents of ICE fires that occur overnight in a garage.

while yeah, just having a car burn down sucks, if it happens on a highway, then insurance gets me a new car.

having a car that cannot be easily extinguished burn down in my garage attached to my house though? I lose a heck of a lot more than just my car in a fire on the side of a freeway.
Your worry is 1000% warranted becasuse(bad analogy; but like a bad mass shooting or something where people say "I never expected that here....") it can happen. But, as to the data of the bolded?.......

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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Exactly. ICE cars won’t go full nuclear in my garage at 1:00am, burning my house down, taking me and my family with it.

It’s IS an issue, however small.
......

Oh really you say? With what experience is this information coming from? Cause I certainly have some.
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Old 10-10-2024, 12:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
It's not worth worrying about. You're orders of magnitude more likely (perhaps even infinitely more likely - I don't even know if there's been one EV fire death in the US) to die from falling in your own house than you are to die from an EV fire.

And ICE cars do, in fact, catch on fire spontaneously and can easily burn a house down and take out its occupants.

We have EVs parked under our kids' rooms and in attached garages for 10 years. I have zero concern about it.
I wouldn't have "zero" concern. The "issue" I have with your example(but not against it) is an EV fire can get full tilt and much more intense MUCH faster. Is that enough time for your smoke detectors to work and then get your kids out before that fire intensifies to the point of weakening that flooring of your kids rooms? Do you have smoke detectors in the garage? Just in case? It's a VERY minor cost for that peace of mind. Shoot, we install free smoke detectors. Check with your fire dept.
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Old 10-11-2024, 12:26 PM   #17
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yeah, for sure, the problem is fires. and they happen with any kind of car regardless of the motor pushing them around, or the fuel source.

the point here is where the fires happen.

if I'm puttering down the freeway and my car catches fire, I can remove my kids immediately from the car.

if I'm asleep in my home and the car catches fire in the garage, how much time is there to react?

and there are incidents of ICE vehicles catching fire spontaneously in the garage, but the cause is pretty quickly assessed and the NHTSA releases a park outside recall until the manufacturer can correct the issue.

with a EV, you hit a pothole the wrong way and charge it in the garage, well, there went your home, and no amount of statistics proving ICE fires are more common than EV fires will make that fire not happen.

this technology will be great, especially if it removes this as a concern for people that stops them from buying EVs, it is also great if it gives piece of mind to someone who is going to get an EV anyway.
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Old 10-12-2024, 12:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post

...with a EV, you hit a pothole the wrong way and charge it in the garage, well, there went your home, and no amount of statistics proving ICE fires are more common than EV fires will make that fire not happen....



And I'd wager the odds of that happening will stay FAR below the odds of an ICE car doing that until they figure it out and pretty much eliminate it. Kinda like the Takata airbag issue. What were/are the odds of ACTUALLY dying from it? How many casualties were linked to that? 427 total with 27 of those being fatal.......out of 67 million airbags.



An article on EV vs ICE fires.


https://www.motortrend.com/features/...bout-ev-fires/
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