JUICED LIGHTNING! Ford To Use Iconic Name For Their Upcoming Electric Pickup

[juanmedina]

So the range estimate is with 1000lbs of cargo?

https://youtu.be/J2npVg9ONFo

https://youtu.be/J2npVg9ONFo

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[mhoward1]

That’s impressive If it really has 400 miles unloaded

[juanmedina]

The F-150 Pro with 300 miles is not available to retail buyers:

https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-wont-l...-lightning-pro

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

The F-150 Pro with 300 miles is not available to retail buyers:

https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-wont-l...-lightning-pro

I really do not see that as an issue. The VAST majority of F150's are XLT models or Lariats. Not base models. The majority of true base models are for fleet sales or company work trucks, and they can get them. Ford knows its customer base well.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I really do not see that as an issue. The VAST majority of F150's are XLT models or Lariats. Not base models. The majority of true base models are for fleet sales or company work trucks, and they can get them. Ford knows its customer base well.

The Pro is the current XL equivalent trim, which is almost exclusively sold as fleet vehicles for city, construction, etc. Like you said, I see nothing wrong or surprising about the pro having limited to no availability for mass public

[DougNuts]

My gut tells me that the contractor version has a very small profit margin, so it wouldn't behoove Ford to make it available to the general public.

Unfortunately, I imagine the public take rate would be small and likely limited to the older demographic green types who would love to purchase the cheapest version of this truck for their 2K miles a year of driving.

The conspiracy theory part of me would point out that this begins the precedent of selling trucks only to people who "need" them, which has been a behind the scenes goal for a lot of environmental types for some time.

[SCRAPPYDO]

That is some copper plated tin foil hat stuff right there Doug... Well played sir.. well played.

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by DougNuts

My gut tells me that the contractor version has a very small profit margin, so it wouldn't behoove Ford to make it available to the general public.

Unfortunately, I imagine the public take rate would be small and likely limited to the older demographic green types who would love to purchase the cheapest version of this truck for their 2K miles a year of driving.

The conspiracy theory part of me would point out that this begins the precedent of selling trucks only to people who "need" them, which has been a behind the scenes goal for a lot of environmental types for some time.

I doubt they make any money specially an EV build at a union plan.

I wonder if something like this will happen to Ford:



The F-150 lighting with current incentives is cheaper than their gas counterpart the XL starting at $36,650 2WD. If Biden get his new EV incentive bill going it will 10k + 2.5k because of union run plan so the Pro short range would start at 27.5K . I hope Ford secured lost of batteries.

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by DougNuts

My gut tells me that the contractor version has a very small profit margin, so it wouldn't behoove Ford to make it available to the general public.

Unfortunately, I imagine the public take rate would be small and likely limited to the older demographic green types who would love to purchase the cheapest version of this truck for their 2K miles a year of driving.

The conspiracy theory part of me would point out that this begins the precedent of selling trucks only to people who "need" them, which has been a behind the scenes goal for a lot of environmental types for some time.

How many Chevy W/T’s do you see around? People like a truck with a radio lol

[shikataganai]

Jumping in out of order here.

Originally Posted by Hondaslayer

The only battery info I have seen is a 2.4 kWh "house battery" for tools etc...

I think you've conflated a few things here: 2.4 kW (no h--power, not capacity) Pro Power Onboard is standard. 9.6 kW is optional. Pack size would be in kWh, yes, but 2.4 kWh is more like a small motorcycle size. Even a Volt or a PacHy packs 16 kWh.

Originally Posted by arghx7

Can we talk about how Ford isn't going to make the cheap one available any time soon for regular buyers? THere's no way you will be able to go to a dealership and see one for less than $60k (before tax credit) for years.

They advertise these bargain basement prices and you end up not being able to get one or it's severely de contented. Like if you want radar cruise control on an Explorer you gotta pay $45k.

This $40ish thousand EV F150 will be their equivalent $35k Model 3. They will make it unappealing (fleet customers aside).

The Lightning Pro details were released and it looks fully reasonable. Vinyl seats with manual 2 way adjustment and no heat, sure, but also power windows and locks, push button start, 12" center stack screen running Sync 4 with CarPlay, same 12" digital dash. Out of box it'll have 2,000 lb payload, 5,000 lb towing for the small battery $40k headline price one, which is just fine, really. Options of 9.6 kW onboard power, 360 degree camera, max towing package for 7,700 lb, and the fancy backup assist + other towing jangles.

Originally Posted by juanmedina

So the range estimate is with 1000lbs of cargo?

https://youtu.be/J2npVg9ONFo

This has been discredited since afaik. Official word is that he's full of crap re 1,000 lb payload and the range estimate displayed was likely artifact due to crawling around at 10 mph beforehand. Range guess-o-meters indeed.

Originally Posted by juanmedina

has anyone noticed the charging... it is really slow at 32amps which is what Tesla uses; it take 19 hours to fully charge the 300 mile version and and 14 hours for the 230 mile version. You will need to step up all the way to 80amps to charge between 8-10 hours and buy a Ford Charge Station Pro. This charge times are with the SOC at 15%.

Charging isn't magic. Tesla's chargers aren't magically more efficient.

The small battery truck can take 48A input power to its on-board 11.6 kW charger. The big battery one can take 80A input power to its on-board 19.2 kW charger. The rest is just math with how many kWh the battery is.

Originally Posted by juanmedina

42k gets you 230 miles. Ford played safe there was nothing earth shattering its a truck for truck people.........will see how many of them will go electric. Which models will ship first and when? is there a spec sheet talking about ground clearance and approach and departure angles.

As a non truck person the Cybertruck has some things going for it like it can seat 6 people, the covered bed, air suspension, telescoping tail bed, price, range and performance. This is going to be fun to watch when both trucks go on sale . For truck people payload and towing are higher on the Cybertruck.

$40k is actually $32.5k in most states as Ford is still within the Fed tax credit window. Tesla isn't.

So the real comparison is:

$32.5k AWD, 230 mile Ford with regular truck ergonomics, good visibility, aftermarket accessory compatibility (or a $45k one with cloth seats and a few more perks)

or

$50k AWD, 300 mile Cybertruck with everything unknown

I see the value proposition for the XLT for normal people, but for tech happy cheapskates like me the base Pro trim is just an amazing value proposition, not to mention being eligible for $2.5k more in CO ($3.5k if it clocks in at over 8,500 lb GVWR ultimately, which is possible).

[Masterauto]

Did someone say JUICE ?

https://imgur.com/gallery/oZszVxO

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by shikataganai

Jumping in out of order here.



I think you've conflated a few things here: 2.4 kW (no h--power, not capacity) Pro Power Onboard is standard. 9.6 kW is optional. Pack size would be in kWh, yes, but 2.4 kWh is more like a small motorcycle size. Even a Volt or a PacHy packs 16 kWh.



The Lightning Pro details were released and it looks fully reasonable. Vinyl seats with manual 2 way adjustment and no heat, sure, but also power windows and locks, push button start, 12" center stack screen running Sync 4 with CarPlay, same 12" digital dash. Out of box it'll have 2,000 lb payload, 5,000 lb towing for the small battery $40k headline price one, which is just fine, really. Options of 9.6 kW onboard power, 360 degree camera, max towing package for 7,700 lb, and the fancy backup assist + other towing jangles.



This has been discredited since afaik. Official word is that he's full of crap re 1,000 lb payload and the range estimate displayed was likely artifact due to crawling around at 10 mph beforehand. Range guess-o-meters indeed.



Charging isn't magic. Tesla's chargers aren't magically more efficient.

The small battery truck can take 48A input power to its on-board 11.6 kW charger. The big battery one can take 80A input power to its on-board 19.2 kW charger. The rest is just math with how many kWh the battery is.



$40k is actually $32.5k in most states as Ford is still within the Fed tax credit window. Tesla isn't.

So the real comparison is:

$32.5k AWD, 230 mile Ford with regular truck ergonomics, good visibility, aftermarket accessory compatibility (or a $45k one with cloth seats and a few more perks)

or

$50k AWD, 300 mile Cybertruck with everything unknown

I see the value proposition for the XLT for normal people, but for tech happy cheapskates like me the base Pro trim is just an amazing value proposition, not to mention being eligible for $2.5k more in CO ($3.5k if it clocks in at over 8,500 lb GVWR ultimately, which is possible).

Was going off memory, thought it was kwh. Called it a “house battery” in reference to RV batteries for running the house lights, toaster etc… not driving.

[godfather2112]

Trim and pricing leaked. Lariat premium (heated/cooled seats, extended range, onboard generator, etc) is $79k ($72k with fed incentive, less if state incentives apply).

Definitely not a cheap vehicle but then again, a fully loaded gas lariat can scratch $70k, maybe more. It's been a while since I built one so not sure on pricing for ICE variant.

Range is still to low for me. If it had 400 miles of range, I'd entertain it.

[godfather2112]

So the lightening gear 300 miles of range with 1k of payload, estimated 400 miles without any payload. If it's range decreases by 25% with just 1k of payload, this truck will not be able to tow a boat / UTV's very far. I'd like to see how far they could tow a standard size ski boat both on flat ground and also incline passes to see what range it really gets. I'd be surprised if it went more than 150-175 miles. That being said, it will be interesting to see how far the Cyber truck can go with towing a boat.

I still think this is a pretty awesome truck that will work for a lot of truck owners. However, I'll be holding out for sometime. My truck has 33k miles on it and unless fuel reaches $7 a gallon, there is not a real benefit in buying an EV truck / large suv for me. Hopefully in 3-5 years the technology and infrastructure greatly improves, along with cost. I'd love to dump my ICE truck but there is currently 0 logical reason to do so.

[juanmedina]

Now that they are making 150k trucks which one are people going to get?



And there is no way it will get 400 miles of real world range unless the pack is massive. The Rivian according to Edmunds gets 317 miles with a 135kWh pack.

My father in-law is selling his gasoline 2021 F350 for 10k more than what he bought it for and buying a diesel one because he says it pull his travel trailer better and is only $67K.

[dwf137]

That's a really large jump from the pro to XLT... close to double the price.

[bemani]

Originally Posted by dwf137

That's a really large jump from the pro to XLT... close to double the price.

The extended battery adds $20k to the price. Standard XLT is $52k.

[White out]

Originally Posted by dwf137

That's a really large jump from the pro to XLT... close to double the price.

$13k bump with the standard battery. Still quite a big leap, but the difference between a base model and a work truck still includes quite a bit of amenities and added technologies.

[Waddlz]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

Now that they are making 150k trucks which one are people going to get?



And there is no way it will get 400 miles of real world range unless the pack is massive. The Rivian according to Edmunds gets 317 miles with a 135kWh pack.

My father in-law is selling his gasoline 2021 F350 for 10k more than what he bought it for and buying a diesel one because he says it pull his travel trailer better and is only $67K.

Ouch

I read a report somewhere that dealers were charging some ridiculous ADM on these.

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by bemani

The extended battery adds $20k to the price. Standard XLT is $52k.

I wonder if it will have less range than the 230 miles of the Pro because it should be slightly heavier since it gets more features. The top of the line also is only dual motor vs quad motor like the Rivian and the Cybertruck.

[Calamity Jesus]

Weight has a negligible effect on range. The vast majority of range goes into either cabin heat or aerodynamic drag. There's a tiny bit more loss between acceleration and regen with higher mass, and a teensy bit more tire drag, but nothing remarkable. It will effect payload a lot more than anything else (other than the wallet).

[godfather2112]

Article is 2 months old but glad to see Ford stepping in to try and prevent ADM.
https://insideevs.com/news/559386/fo...lightning/amp/

[dwf137]

time to end the dealership model.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by dwf137

time to end the dealership model.

While I agree, I don’t see that happening for several reasons.

-Strong franchise laws
-Cost to acquire existing dealerships would be massive.


With how much money is being poured into EV development, budgets are tight. Personally, I haven’t had issues with being gouged or paying ADM. I bought my last two trucks from same dealer and sales rep simply because it was no B.S, they offered me what I thought was fair on trade, made a good deal on vehicle being sold, and sold me the top packaged extended warranty at the lowest tier cost.

I have had dealers try to play games when I email them and I simply just don’t respond back.

[dwf137]

Laws can be changed. Manufacturers can simply do like tesla and offer direct to consumer sales and deliveries to start - no show room necessary. Would be a small bite out of the dealership model, but honestly I think most people these days would be open to this.

But I agree, it's likely not going anywhere. Although I don't think it's because of anything but money in politics. Too many rich dealership owners are in the pockets of politicians, so the laws will never change.