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View Poll Results: Please report your oil consuption here for the vehicle you own(ed)
2011-14 Forester - Excessive Consumption 12 13.19%
2011-14 Forester - Normal/No Consumption 8 8.79%
2013 Legacy - Excessive Consumption 2 2.20%
2013 Legacy - Normal/No Consumption 4 4.40%
2012-13 Outback - Excessive Consumption 4 4.40%
2012-13 Outback - Normal/No Consumption 5 5.49%
2012-13 Impreza - Excessive Consumption 33 36.26%
2012-13 Impreza - Normal/No Consumption 28 30.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-29-2014, 07:29 PM   #1
Blur125
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Question Oil Consumption Poll

Let's start a poll, shall we?

This is in regards to the oil consumption discovered in newer gen Subarus.

I'm using the suspect vehicles listed in the current lawsuit against Subaru.

We will define "excessive consumption' as vehicles consuming 1qt or more oil between changes.

I am not affiliated with any law practice, Subaru, or associated agencies, just your average joe.
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:23 PM   #2
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Some early 2014 Imprezas also reportedly have consummation issues too


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Old 12-31-2014, 09:25 PM   #3
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Some early 2014 Imprezas also reportedly have consummation issues too


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That's because you aren't supposed to marry a car.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:56 AM   #4
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i have a 2013 impreza with 16,000 miles on it. pretty much all highway. i changed the oil 3 times and have had to add a 2 quarts .would that be in the excessive department?

i do get the low oil light come on when it is only a half quart low.

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Old 01-01-2015, 10:58 AM   #5
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That's because you aren't supposed to marry a car.
oh that is funny!
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by auto2 View Post
i have a 2013 impreza with 16,000 miles on it. pretty much all highway. i changed the oil 3 times and have had to add a 2 quarts .would that be in the excessive department?

i do get the low oil light come on when it is only a half quart low.
You're consuming oil, therefore I'd go through an oil consuption test at your Subaru dealer. The benefit of doing it is you'll get a free oil change. At $80 a change for synthetic at a dealer, its a nice incentive to have it done.

See SoobieDoo's response to your other comment:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=6472
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:52 AM   #7
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Some early 2014 Imprezas also reportedly have consummation issues too


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Yes you're right, but they're not listed in the lawsuit.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:58 AM   #8
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Yes you're right, but they're not listed in the lawsuit.
Do you realize that virtually every model of every brand of car currently has a class action lawsuit against it for oil consumption?

It's standard operating procedure for ambulance chasing lawyers to sue every brand over every model for oil consumption.

So don't put any stock in any lawsuit because there is nothing wrong with these cars, the lawsuit will never be won, Subaru will never pay a dime, and even if they did - it's the lawyers who'll be paid, not you.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
Do you realize that virtually every model of every brand of car currently has a class action lawsuit against it for oil consumption?

It's standard operating procedure for ambulance chasing lawyers to sue every brand over every model for oil consumption.

So don't put any stock in any lawsuit because there is nothing wrong with these cars, the lawsuit will never be won, Subaru will never pay a dime, and even if they did - it's the lawyers who'll be paid, not you.
I'm sure the same polls exist on other motor enthusiast forums as well then.

Are you saying those owners with cars consuming excess amounts of oil should just live with it and continue to top off every fill up? I tell you what, you won't catch me topping off a new vehicle, I won't put up with a new car having mechnical issues from the get-go. What about the average driver who doesn't maintain their own car or even know how to put oil in? What are they left to do? Contact the dealer, and take more time out of their work schedules to get it fixed. Time is money my friend...

I bought a 2012 Impreza...had excess consumption and sold it to carmax. The hoops that SOA is making owners jump through to test/repair without 100% success rates is very time consuming.

I agree that joining the lawsuit will net you a few dimes on a dollar, but its worth it if it forces SOA to acknowledge and fix the issue (with certainty) on the company's dime.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:08 PM   #10
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I'm sure the same polls exist on other motor enthusiast forums as well then.

Are you saying those owners with cars consuming excess amounts of oil should just live with it and continue to top off every fill up? I tell you what, you won't catch me topping off a new vehicle, I won't put up with a new car having mechnical issues from the get-go. What about the average driver who doesn't maintain their own car or even know how to put oil in? What are they left to do? Contact the dealer, and take more time out of their work schedules to get it fixed. Time is money my friend...

I bought a 2012 Impreza...had excess consumption and sold it to carmax. The hoops that SOA is making owners jump through to test/repair without 100% success rates is very time consuming.

I agree that joining the lawsuit will net you a few dimes on a dollar, but its worth it if it forces SOA to acknowledge and fix the issue (with certainty) on the company's dime.
I'm sorry but you, and the average driver, don't understand the car industry or car maintenance.

This is why my forester has a factory 7 quart oil sump on a motor that only requires 4 quarts. Because of people like you that don't check and top off their oil.

You should absolutely expect to have to top off the oil on a brand new car between oil changes. Internal combustion engines burn oil, period.

Up to a quart every 3000 miles is the acceptable legal limit for new cars in the US, iirc.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Blur125 View Post
We will define "excessive consumption' as vehicles consuming 1qt or more oil between changes.
You need to define what an oil-change interval is. Is it 3,500 miles? Is it 5,000 miles? Is it 7,500 miles? Is it 10,000 miles?

Under what kind of driving conditions or habits is the consumption occurring? Stop-and-go? Short trips in general? Long trips in general? Hills and other 'adverse' driving conditions'?

Is the car warmed-up? If no, why? If yes, for how long?

What weight and grade of oil is used? What is the Technical Data for the brand of oil used?

Is the engine new or used? If used, how many miles and related?

If you're talking about consuming one-quart every 2,000 to 5,000 miles, and your driving habits, conditions, and so-forth meet a certain profile, then this is not excessive, but normal consumption.

If you believe that the oil should never magically never be consumed, you should not own a motor vehicle. In fact, you probably should not own any property what-so-ever.

Hey, I ate once and pooped once today, so I should be good to go? Yes? Sure, if I'm a bench-warmer. If however I'm cutting down trees all day, then most-likely I'll need to eat more than once and I'll probably poop more than once. Different factors, different outcome.

Understand the dynamics of a four-cycle internal-combustion engine, and understand all of the other factors that come into play before you assume that there is an oil-consumption problem.
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:43 PM   #12
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jesus.....are people REALLY this bloody STUPID
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:14 AM   #13
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Might as well sue Subaru for their factory recalls also.

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Old 01-03-2015, 02:34 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
That's because you aren't supposed to marry a car.

LoL. I love auto correct


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Old 01-03-2015, 07:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
I'm sorry but you, and the average driver, don't understand the car industry or car maintenance.

This is why my forester has a factory 7 quart oil sump on a motor that only requires 4 quarts. Because of people like you that don't check and top off their oil.

You should absolutely expect to have to top off the oil on a brand new car between oil changes. Internal combustion engines burn oil, period.

Up to a quart every 3000 miles is the acceptable legal limit for new cars in the US, iirc.
It's all good except that Subaru has acknowledged an issue with oil control rings on some FB20/FB25 engines. There's a TSB out about it.
So, in some instances, for some FB20/FB25 engines out there, Subaru recognizes that there's indeed *excessive* oil consumption.

EDIT:
I only found the TSB for the FB25; so, maybe the FB20 does not have this oil control piston rings issue.
Ultimately, since the FB20 has a low oil level sensor in the sump, people that do not regularly check oil level are getting an advanced warning.
On Crosstrek/Impreza, the "low oil level" light comes on when sump is around a quart low; plenty of time to correct the issue.
But, the FB25 does *not* have an oil level sensor in the sump (that's at least true all the way to MY2014; not sure about MY2015 Forester/Legacy/Outback).
In any case, here's the TSB for FB25 (from AWD auto, an independent Subie shop in the Seattle area):
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-...use-explained/
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/wp-cont...02-143-13R.pdf

Last edited by neg_matnik; 01-03-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 01-03-2015, 08:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
It's all good except that Subaru has acknowledged an issue with oil control rings on some FB20/FB25 engines. There's a TSB out about it.
So, in some instances, for some FB20/FB25 engines out there, Subaru recognizes that there's indeed *excessive* oil consumption.

EDIT:
I only found the TSB for the FB25; so, maybe the FB20 does not have this oil control piston rings issue.
Ultimately, since the FB20 has a low oil level sensor in the sump, people that do not regularly check oil level are getting an advanced warning.
On Crosstrek/Impreza, the "low oil level" light comes on when sump is around a quart low; plenty of time to correct the issue.
But, the FB25 does *not* have an oil level sensor in the sump (that's at least true all the way to MY2014; not sure about MY2015 Forester/Legacy/Outback).
In any case, here's the TSB for FB25 (from AWD auto, an independent Subie shop in the Seattle area):
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-...use-explained/
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/wp-cont...02-143-13R.pdf

The FB25 can probably run 5 quarts low, if not more, before the pickup sucks air.
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
The FB25 can probably run 5 quarts low, if not more, before the pickup sucks air.
How does that work? The dipstick shows "full" with 5.5~6 quarts in the sump (at least, that's what I see with 2011 Forester).
Has Subaru increased sump capacity for the newer FB25 engines?
I know Subaru has reduced recommended OCI from 7.5k to 6k, but I heard nothing about increased sump capacity.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
It's all good except that Subaru has acknowledged an issue with oil control rings on some FB20/FB25 engines. There's a TSB out about it.
So, in some instances, for some FB20/FB25 engines out there, Subaru recognizes that there's indeed *excessive* oil consumption.

EDIT:
I only found the TSB for the FB25; so, maybe the FB20 does not have this oil control piston rings issue.
Ultimately, since the FB20 has a low oil level sensor in the sump, people that do not regularly check oil level are getting an advanced warning.
On Crosstrek/Impreza, the "low oil level" light comes on when sump is around a quart low; plenty of time to correct the issue.
But, the FB25 does *not* have an oil level sensor in the sump (that's at least true all the way to MY2014; not sure about MY2015 Forester/Legacy/Outback).
In any case, here's the TSB for FB25 (from AWD auto, an independent Subie shop in the Seattle area):
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-...use-explained/
- http://allwheeldriveauto.com/wp-cont...02-143-13R.pdf

The problems seen in other threads is that replacing the rings only slowed the excess consumption. They were still down over a quart after 3k miles. The FB20 is certainly affected, I'm having a hard time finding the TSB for that.

There was a theory going that a certain batch of motors were bored incorrectly. Short blocks have been replaced and that seems to be a better resolution.

And to those who think I'm an idiot, thank you for your comments. I'm aware engines consume oil, hence the options for normal/no consumption in the poll. The problem being polled is excessive consumption in majorily normal driving conditions. Oil lights are coming on at 2500-3000 miles into an oil change with consumers having to add up to 2 quarts between changes. If you guys think that's ok, well suit yourself. I've owned plenty of new vehicles that did not have this issue and its a real inconvenience for current owners. It's understandable if it lost up to a quart between changes, not 2-3.


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Old 01-04-2015, 11:25 AM   #19
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Nobody called you an idiot.

Also, per your definition, you say that one quart in 5000+ miles is excessive.

That just isn't reality. Your definition of excessive is incorrect.

And again, your belief that you should not have to top off between changes is also incorrect.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annihilator817 View Post
Nobody called you an idiot.

Also, per your definition, you say that one quart in 5000+ miles is excessive.

That just isn't reality. Your definition of excessive is incorrect.

And again, your belief that you should not have to top off between changes is also incorrect.

OCI is 7500 miles 0w-20 synthetic. Most are adding about 2 quarts between changes. That's excessive.

Here was my reality: My old 02' EJ25 burned about a quart between changes, but the head gasket was leaking so technically it was losing oil moreso than burning it. I topped off when needed. Before the head gasket issue, I never had to top it off and never had lights coming on every 2500 like the 12' FB20....

Now if subi wants to ditch the light weight synthetic, maybe there'd be less consumption, but poorer fuel economy? I dunno...but I just don't want a car that is so oil thirsty off the lot. Or maybe they should shorten the intervals, but it'd be down to every 3k miles if they wanted to keep up with the consumption. That's a pricey oil change for every 3k...




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Old 01-04-2015, 10:45 PM   #21
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OCI is 7500 miles 0w-20 synthetic. Most are adding about 2 quarts between changes. That's excessive.

Here was my reality: My old 02' EJ25 burned about a quart between changes, but the head gasket was leaking so technically it was losing oil moreso than burning it. I topped off when needed. Before the head gasket issue, I never had to top it off and never had lights coming on every 2500 like the 12' FB20....

Now if subi wants to ditch the light weight synthetic, maybe there'd be less consumption, but poorer fuel economy? I dunno...but I just don't want a car that is so oil thirsty off the lot. Or maybe they should shorten the intervals, but it'd be down to every 3k miles if they wanted to keep up with the consumption. That's a pricey oil change for every 3k...




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How is 2 quarts in 7500 miles excessive if the standard accepted amount in the US is 1 quart every 3000 miles, which would be 2.5 quarts every 7500 miles?

And just because your old EJ didn't burn oil, that has no bearing on your current car. Consider it a bonus that you got away with zero consumption on your EJ.

And if you think heavier weight oil will help, you don't have to sit on your hands and wish for Subaru's permission, just go put whatever oil you want in your car.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:25 AM   #22
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My 2012 Impreza was using a quart every 2,000-2,400 miles. Glad to be rid of it. My Ford C-Max is supposed to have an oil change every 10,000 miles - I've gone 4,800 so far and no oil light. What a relief!
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:41 PM   #23
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How is 2 quarts in 7500 miles excessive if the standard accepted amount in the US is 1 quart every 3000 miles, which would be 2.5 quarts every 7500 miles?

And just because your old EJ didn't burn oil, that has no bearing on your current car. Consider it a bonus that you got away with zero consumption on your EJ.
Where does this 1 quart ever 3k miles "standard" originate?

And I think the fact that my older car consuming less oil than my new car does have some bearing on the situation - in that it pisses me off. I traded the old car in to get away from mechanical issues, not to tend to new ones.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:43 PM   #24
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Where does this 1 quart ever 3k miles "standard" originate?

And I think the fact that my older car consuming less oil than my new car does have some bearing on the situation - in that it pisses me off. I traded the old car in to get away from mechanical issues, not to tend to new ones.
You don't have any mechanical issues.

Adding oil is a part of vehicle ownership and operation.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:49 PM   #25
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You don't have any mechanical issues.

Adding oil is a part of vehicle ownership and operation.
If there's no mechanical issue...then why are there service bulletins for it?

My wife's 2013 Mini Cooper goes 10k miles between changes and burns 1/4 qt.

My 2010 Outlander (AWD 3.0 V6) burns 1/2 qt between changes (7500 miles).

The rate at which these Subarus are consuming oil is excessive. They're not race cars, they're not trucks, they're econoboxes.
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