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Old 05-03-2016, 05:23 PM   #1
Cobb Tuning
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Default Accesstuner Race Updates

As a heads up to those who rely on Accesstuner Race...

After taking a look at current industry news and trends, we have decided to proactively re-tool Accesstuner Race. Starting 5/9/16, it will temporarily be unavailable on our website, but we expect to have the updates available by June. We know it’s a bummer not having it available right now, but please check out the list of Protuners on our website for an interim solution.

If you have any questions or concerns about this, please feel free to email us at [email protected]

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Last edited by Cobb Tuning; 05-04-2016 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:43 PM   #2
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Dang. Does this push back the flex fuel release for the DIT engines?
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Boggie1688 View Post
Dang. Does this push back the flex fuel release for the DIT engines?
This will in no way affect the release of DIT Flex Fuel!

[email protected]
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:01 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
This will in no way affect the release of DIT Flex Fuel!

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Awesome!
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:29 AM   #5
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what kind of changes can we expect in ATR???? I find no issues right now with it and have been very happy tuning with atr!!!
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:55 AM   #6
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Will the updated Accesstuner Race come with Flex Fuel tables? (So consumer can tune himself?)
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by zuppy View Post
Will the updated Accesstuner Race come with Flex Fuel tables? (So consumer can tune himself?)
+1 PRETTY PLEASE?!?! This would really complete ATR!
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:42 PM   #8
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I literally went to download this the other day and was wondering what happened to it

Wish I could get like an old copy or something >.>
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:19 PM   #9
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Me, too. I just need to do my MAF scaling.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:38 PM   #10
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I understand why they did it, but it affects the user that has an interest in tuning their own car or making slight adjustments. Hopefully they will release it for the individual user again.

Direct copy from Circuit Motorsports on the changes to ATR. Link Here ->
CircuitMotorsports Cobb ATR post

Quote:
With all this Hate going around for Cobb because they "took away" AccessTuner Race we wanted to step-in an make a few things clear from a Protuner's perspective.

1. Cobb is not taking away anything from it's customer base to try and capitalize on them or to hurt anyone's' business. On the contrary they are actually doing it to help put the Cobb Authorized Protuner community.

2. Accesstuner Race (ATR) is not gone forever, Cobb has plans to implement a system in order to allow the guys who truly want to log and tune their OWN vehicles through their Accessport a way to do so.

3. Cobb has suspended ATR for the moment for one main reason: to get rid of the shade-tree and back-alley "tuners".

Let us explain; There are 2 types of Tuners out there right now for the Cobb market (or there were until last week). There are the Authorized Cobb Protuners whom have been vetted and certified by Cobb themselves to tune through the Accessport software. The Protuners pay for the Cobb Protuner software and this allows them to tune multiples customer cars the right way.

Then there are the back-alley "tuners" who offer tunes through craigslist, facebook etc. They are NOT authorized by Cobb and they do not pay for the official Cobb Protuner software. So how do they tune cars then? Well they offer tunes through ATR. They request the ATR software from Cobb as if they were you, the customer. Cobb had no system in place to monitor this and they would assume the customer is just asking for ATR to log and tune their own cars, basically Cobb was operating on the honor system. So these back-alley tuners would then tune the customer's car using ATR, collect their fee and be on their way. Usually charging less for the tune because guess what? They didn't pay for the software, so they aren't out of pocket for any overhead.

Now why is it a bad thing for these so called "tuners" to be doing this? Because it undermines the real Protuners and overall it ruined the ATR software for the actual guys who wanted to tune their own vehicles (you). In some cases these tuners are just guys tuning literally out of their home garage and on the streets, no real shop or business. Unfortunately even some higher-profile tuners and bigger shops were masquerading as Protuners and were in fact, just abusing the ATR system.

You see the issue is most Protuners either own or work at an actual shop, there is insurance, liability, a reputation to uphold. If something goes wrong they are there to help you. If you have an issue and need a tune checked out you call them up or stop by. If you want a re-tune or need help 6 months down the road they will most likely be there. So what about that guy you found on Facebook or Craigslist that tuned your car on his street? Where is he? Now that you're having issues or your engine blew who do you go to?

Cobb has their Protuner network in place and they require certain things for a reason. All tunes are not created equal, and tuning is arguably way more important to your car than a name-brand exhaust or turbo. Build a $50,000 car and get a $300 tune, and you now have a $50,300 paperweight.

Since this post is already pretty long we'll end with this. Paying for a REAL Protuner to tune your car, one with a shop/dyno and a good reputation is a really frikin' good idea. Going the other route is a really frikin' bad idea. Cobb stepped in to help out their reputation, Protuners, and their customers as a whole. This is a GOOD thing, especially for the unassuming guy who may not have known the difference or what was really going on.

So all those "tuners" who are now bashing Cobb, and all those "tuning shops" who now say they wont tune Cobb, guess what? They just publicly ousted themselves as fraudulent Protuners. Avoid them. Go find a Protuner listed on Cobbs' site as a Silver or Gold Dealer/Tuner. You'll be happy you did.

Thank you Cobb!

BTW, Circuit Motorsports is, and always has been, a Certified Cobb Protuner. We will still gladly use Cobb to tune your car the right way
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Old 05-17-2016, 04:04 PM   #11
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so holding the user who went with Back Alley tune is out the window? Slack jawed soft handed safe zoners. Bring back accountability
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:06 PM   #12
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While I'm glad to hear that ATR is going to be available (in some form) in the future, Cobb is one of only two (Subaru-related) management solutions that charges for their tuning software - the other (that I know of) being Pectel, which is more-or-less dead in current Subaru platforms. Some other companies nickle-and-dime you in other ways (*cough* MoTeC *cough*), but the software is generally free.

The restrictions on software have always annoyed me about the AP. When you buy into most management solutions, you are paying for not only the hardware, but the development that went into the software to use it - i.e. the full (AEM, etc.) or partial (MoTeC, etc.) toolbox, not just the roll-away.

The device doesn't warrant a high cost because it is not a full management replacement, so the unlocked (Pro) software ends up costing MORE than a more powerful management solution (w/software) would in the first place. This isn't even taking into account the dealer program requirements. The really sad part of the whole thing to me, personally, is seeing an individual very involved in the open source community being hired on by a company that is now further locking down the software required to use about 95% of the benefit of a product they sell - this may be speaking too soon; the future ATR may find a perfect middle-ground... who knows?

The AP is a great little device, yes, and I will keep mine for emissions checks so I can utilize OBD scanning and not a sniffer/visual... but the software 'lock-down' and inability to find a local tuner that would provide an unlocked tune (at increased cost, for the IP, obviously) is what pushed me into a completely different primary management solution.

Now the most important point, as I am not saying any of this to dog on Cobb, here:

I also realize that there aren't a lot of options for Cobb... offer something at a price boneheads can afford and you're gonna have people blowing motors. Offer it a higher price and fewer people buy the product (people that tend to spend $5-10k on engine management would likely not be visiting Craigslist to find a tuner). In either case, Cobb ends up getting badmouthed because the world has no shortage of morons.

Cobb has found a very unique area to carve out for themselves in the automotive aftermarket with the AP - it's obviously going to come with some challenges if you're trying to be something more than a non-profit.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 05-17-2016 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:26 AM   #13
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It seems like in order to become a protuner, one now needs a dyno shop with Cobb vendor status? I wish simply having dyno access and taking certification courses equals a responsible and knowledgeable tuner. There are many good e-tuners out there who don't own a dyno and there are dyno owning protuners whose tunes really aren't too impressive. =/

Now, back on topic, flex fuel and CCF for ATR pretty please?
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:40 AM   #14
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I'm not really sure what's going on. Am I not going to be able to tune new customers with AP's because I am not a ProTuner attached to a shop (because I have two other jobs and can't dedicate to a shop for relatively little pay)? Am I going to be able to do FF with ATR as a non-ProTuner? If not, my AP will be sold in favor of going back to OS or an AEM EMS.

Last edited by yamahaSHO; 05-18-2016 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
I'm not really sure what's going on. Am I not going to be able to tune new customers with AP's because I am not a ProTuner attached to a shop (because I have two other jobs and can't dedicate to a shop for relatively little pay)? Am I going to be able to do FF with ATR as a non-ProTuner? If not, my AP will be sold in favor of going back to OS or an AEM EMS.

Do use the $$$$ race tuner pro version, whatever its called, vs the free race tuner you downloaded when you just buy your own AP?

I'm thinking thats whats going on? I just looked at the Cobb website. Guess you can't buy the pro version any more, there are a few .pdf's about becoming a ProTuner, etc.

Hmmmmm
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:06 PM   #16
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You haven't been able to buy it for awhile now. You have to sell their products while on a sort of probation. Cobb has changed a good bit since getting bought out a few years ago.

What I've been doing is talking customers into purchasing a $650 AccessPort, then having them request ATR and sending me their install folder or have them bring me their AP and I do the work. This is why I would like some clarification... Without being able to do the above, I have no reason to push people to the AP anymore.


In response to Circuit Motorsports posts... not all Cobb "ProTuned" tunes are gold. Some of them just plain suck.

Last edited by yamahaSHO; 05-18-2016 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:50 PM   #17
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Please just don't hurt the end users that wants to learn tuning concepts and make their own tweaks. There are users that do not use ATR as a source of income. We just want to keep our cars running healthy. Most protuners started out as a home garage tuner.
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Old 05-18-2016, 03:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtuning View Post
Please just don't hurt the end users that wants to learn tuning concepts and make their own tweaks. There are users that do not use ATR as a source of income. We just want to keep our cars running healthy. Most protuners started out as a home garage tuner.
This is a good summary of my feelings regarding my open source comment.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtuning View Post
Please just don't hurt the end users that wants to learn tuning concepts and make their own tweaks. There are users that do not use ATR as a source of income. We just want to keep our cars running healthy. Most protuners started out as a home garage tuner.
This +1000
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:46 PM   #20
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Stuff like this makes the time I put into reverse engineering Cobb's software and hardware even more worth it.

Pulling anything off the net that was previously available is useless, the jar has already been opened. I have three builds of Race and two builds of Pro that I could just send to anyone.

The updates to ATR are supposed to be done by June. Flex Fuel was supposed to be available last year, so I'm not holding my breath on scheduling.
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Old 05-18-2016, 06:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by synapsis View Post
Stuff like this makes the time I put into reverse engineering Cobb's software and hardware even more worth it.

Pulling anything off the net that was previously available is useless, the jar has already been opened. I have three builds of Race and two builds of Pro that I could just send to anyone.

The updates to ATR are supposed to be done by June. Flex Fuel was supposed to be available last year, so I'm not holding my breath on scheduling.
Evaluate on your statement. Your pro version allows Flex Fuel tuning from the new update or is out a version a few years older? This is getting interesting.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synapsis View Post
I have three builds of Race...
This exact situation is why I stockpiled builds of Race preemptively on a Cloud drive... having to submit a request and wait 24 hours was a big enough PITA as it was.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:51 PM   #23
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I don't think I ever had to wait more than 30 minutes for a request approval e-mail and download. Whenever it wasn't my car, I put in that it was a customers car... A customer I had spend the rather large chunk of money for something less capable than a run of the mill smart phone. It was actually one of my customers that pointed me to this thread as he has been wanting to go with Flex Fuel when available since I tuned him on E85 a year or two ago. He previously had a "ProTune" that caused him to push coolant on the road course as a beginner.
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Old 05-18-2016, 08:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuppy View Post
Evaluate on your statement. Your pro version allows Flex Fuel tuning from the new update or is out a version a few years older? This is getting interesting.
My version of Pro contains definitions for Base, SD, and CF which I assume is the flex fuel. I don't have a dongle to actually run it, and I haven't taken the time to rebuild the function call tables that are scrambled by the HASP content protection. (It takes forever, but I can start by comparing off the Race executable.)

Most of my work is with Race, and I just barely got a decrypter set up to open up one set of XML files when I lost my job and everything got derailed. I haven't gone through the Pro executable to see if the keys are even readable.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:00 PM   #25
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Well, if Cobb really does restricts ATR, it will just hurt end users in two ways, they lose the ability to properly tune their own car and the available talent pool of AP tuners will diminish, leaving consumers at the mercy of a small selection of "established" tuners.

It would really kill the flexibility of the acessport as a tuning solution.
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