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Old 03-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #26
ezil71
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An update from this weekend....

I installed gr2's with Epic springs using all new parts (except the tophats which are only a couple years old and group N rear/com c front).

I've got the same issue still, so it doesn't look like it is struts or springs.

I assume something must be binding, but I don't know how to best track it down.

What is the most likely place to bind? Should I just loosen up everything and re-torque?

Is there a specific order to re-torque once everything is loose?

Thanks
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Last edited by ezil71; 03-17-2013 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:07 PM   #27
Bikelok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikelok View Post
If and when you do disassemble the rear, don't forget to check for binding with the rest of the components. Make sure you have full movement available.
When you had the struts out you should have checked to see if your lateral links and trailing arms swing up and down, without binding. Disconnect the sway bar end links to do this. It should be stiff but not stop abruptly.

Triple check that the sway bar is not touching the lateral links WHILE THE CAR IS ON THE GROUND. Not in the air.

To re-torque, put it on ramps, or somehow get it to load the suspension as it would if its full weight was on the suspension.
Usually, ramps, but I have seen blocks of wood and cinder blocks under the wheels, etc..
I would recommend the ramps as it is the safest way.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:13 AM   #28
ezil71
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Thanks - no they are not flipped, I just checked again.

I've pretty much done all the mods to my car, but I'm not too familiar with the suspension adjustment areas. I assume I'd want to mark the trailing arm before I loosen it, up by the differential bushings?

Any others that I need to mark before I loosen them?

I'm going to loosen the 4 subframe bolts and put my lock down bolts back in too. I took them out thinking they might be contributing to the issue, but since I need to get an alignment I might as well put them back.

yeah, I know I should have checked.... as my grandfather used to say.. "what a stupid I am"
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:17 AM   #29
ezil71
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Also - I'm considering doing bushing upgrades, probably Group N, but the TiC set looks good too.

Is there a lot more NVH with the TiC bushings?

Anyone have a ballpark guess on hours for a shop to install the full TiC 'new bush' kit?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:31 AM   #30
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Group-N would be the quietest performance bushings out there. TiC bushings are very nice, but would probably be a bit more NVH then the Group-N rubber.

I'm not sure on how much a shop would charge. I do my own bushings.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:24 PM   #31
ezil71
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Another update.

Looks like I've found the cause, mostly.

One side of my endlinks was binding up enough that the bar was only really moving on the other side. Hence the wacky ride.

I fully removed/cleaned/greased up the links and bar and now the ride is much, much smoother.

Question - how freely should the endlink be able to move?

I torqued everything to spec (34 upper and lower on the rear links), but that seemed a touch tight to allow the endlink to move much?

If it matters, I have whiteline bars with whiteline links.

I still feel a bit of odd motion, but just a hint of it compared to before.

I'm wondering if there might be some bushing pre load issues as well, since I doubt the rest of the suspension has been re-torqued at the new height (which I will do when I get an alignment).

Glad I finally pulled the bar. I've loosened it and sprayed white lithium grease in several times, but I guess it goes to show there are no shortcuts!
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #32
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this tells me that the whole thing needs to be inspected and cleaned/lubed


this also tells me that proper problem solving was not employed and a SERIOUS waste of time, effort and energy was the ultimate end result, here

this thread should be stickied......for several reasons....name them and win a special prize
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:28 PM   #33
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Because Uncle Scotty is the master of the universe?

No, not a waste. I was going to change out my springs anyway, so it all need to be pulled.

The RCE's were too harsh for a DD, the pinks were good, but looked crappy.

But hey, thanks for the judgment. We can't all be the master.

That said, I appreciate the help from everyone.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:08 AM   #34
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how do the epic springs ride compared to the rce springs? I currently have rce and want to switch to epic to get a smoother ride that is less jarring, can you post some pics of the ride height and maybe some fender to hub measurements also?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Because Uncle Scotty is the master of the universe?

No, not a waste. I was going to change out my springs anyway, so it all need to be pulled.

The RCE's were too harsh for a DD, the pinks were good, but looked crappy.

But hey, thanks for the judgment. We can't all be the master.

That said, I appreciate the help from everyone.
d00000000000000d.....you coulda had this all figured out LONG AGO...and didnt

and had all of US beating our heads against the wall TRYING to help you.....

and you were LAME enough to NOT have ALREADY checked THE ****ING OBVIOUS things FIRST

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THIS REALLY PISSES ME OFF
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #36
ezil71
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No, I did check it. I even tried to drop the mounts a bit and lube it.

Yes, I failed to do it properly. That was an error. Lesson learned.

I asked 2 different shops (during an alignment) to check it out. They both failed to find or fix it.

Always do it yourself - Lesson learned.

So, yeah, it wasn't so 'obvious'.

Happy to have pissed you off. I'm in good company


There is still an issue. Something is still binding, but a lot, lot less.

Any other 'obvious' things?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:35 PM   #37
ezil71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hella_sti View Post
how do the epic springs ride compared to the rce springs? I currently have rce and want to switch to epic to get a smoother ride that is less jarring, can you post some pics of the ride height and maybe some fender to hub measurements also?
I like the ride, but I can't really compare right now because I have them on excel g's, which are pretty firm. Firmer than you would think considering they are so called stock replacements (I knew this when I put them in). A pretty good value if you can't afford the dspecs and want a firmer ride. I think it was like $240 for all 4 kybs.

I wouldn't call it harsh, but it is firm. Not much body roll unless you are really pushing. I've got whiteline bars, so I'm sure that is a factor.

Probably equal to 3.75 or 4 turns on the dspecs up front.

I had the rce on dspecs and I'll probably swap back my dspecs with the epics at some point. As expected, the kyb's aren't as refined as the dspecs.

The height looks great. 14" except for my back left which is 13.6.

A much nicer look than the pinks, and a better ride than the rce's.


With the different setups I've run, it really depends on the dampers as much or more than the springs as far as ride quality.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #38
ezil71
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I'm editing this post after an experiment.

On the theory that part of the issue is my endlinks/bar not moving properly I removed the bar completely and took a test drive.

Aside from the obvious changes of less feel/float of the rear the suspension did feel like it was finally responding about the way I would expect based on how the front feels.

There is still some odd responses, but I'm guessing whatever binding is still there without the bar can be addressed by cleaning up and greasing the lateral links and trailing arms and properly torqueing them.

Questions

- how freely should the bar move in the mounts with the endlinks disconnected?

- how freely should the endlinks move (at either connection point with the other removed)?

Thanks - Ed

Last edited by ezil71; 04-04-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:38 PM   #39
ezil71
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Finally.

I took the car in for an alignment today and had them loosen and re-torque everything.

The tech said on one side the bushing 'popped'.

I also had a bad inner tie rod and replaced that.

With my alignment at -1.4 front, zero toe and -1.6 and -1.4 rear with .15 toe in per side the car feels totally neutral. My 22 whiteline front bar is on the higher setting and the rear is on the highest setting.

There is very small amount of the issue still there, but it is so, so, so much better.

A real pleasure to drive again.

Thanks to everyone for your input.
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