Gtx 3076r gen 2 vs gtx3582r gen 2 ej207

Mauled · 03-04-2023, 07:28 PM

I have a gtx30r gen 2 .82 currently on a ej207 v8 with built heads and cams. Wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to a gtx35r and how much power gain I would see. Currently I make full boost at 4.8k which is 28psi. I want to crack 500whp, I have no idea what power I'm making now, I'd say around 480.

If I get the 35r gen 2 should I go .63 or .82? Also could I turn the rpm up to 8500 safely?

Car is 2005 wrx, daily driver, no track time
Ej207 v8 gsc s1 cams valves springs retainers
50/50 meth injection and 93.

K3rm1tth3fr0g · 03-04-2023, 09:32 PM

Many many variables here. Too many to say anything with certainty.

Going from a GT30 to a GT35 will certainly open up the topend while killing midrange, but exactly how much depends on the turbo.

The 3576 Gen 2 is actually a more balanced turbo than the 3076 you're on now, of which it shares its compressor wheel dimensions. It's much better suited for 500+ applications than the 3076. I have a Gen 2 3576 in my garage waiting for my built motor.

Without corn makes hitting 500 tougher but the meth of course helps - you just risk the meth system failing and the motor blowing up at high RPM... Such is life without corn.

I would guess going to a 3576 with a .82 you'd spool just a hair later with a lot more topend. Being a 2.0L though does seriously hinder spool and boost threshold though.

There are many schools of though regarding A/R selection. .82 is a good middleground for most setups, with the 1.xx A/Rs typically either killing spool/boost threshold, or making the motor feel more N/A like with a more linear power delivery. The ladder of which can actually be preferable. .63 will hit hard but drop off, not really what you want if you're sizing up to a GT35, though on a 2.0L a GT35 w/ a .63 house makes much more sense than a 2.5L.

I'd stay .82 probably though if you are up-sizing turbos.

With a 3576 you could probably hit 500 with meth. Same with 3582 but the spool and response will be considerably worse.

Do you have a tuner who you can discuss options with? They are always a good resource to engage if possible as they have a good understanding of the ramp rates, and how A/R affects power and spool. I would advise getting on a dyno rather than E-tuning a setup like this.

Not to throw another wrench in the mix but the EFR turbos also kick ass.

KillerBMotorsport · 03-05-2023, 08:41 AM

I would start with getting the car on a dyno as-is, so you know where you are truly starting from. 20whp is not a big gain and could potentially done with other mods alone. Heck, with an EJ20 and cams already, you could go to the next size A/R (1.06 IIRC) and gain that 20 you're looking for up top.

Going from a 3076 to 3576 will typically yield 80-100whp on an EJ25, on an EJ20 less, but still more than enough to exceed your goal with minimal increase in spool time. A 3582 will add a lot of lag. On an EJ20, you'd really want to have the heads built for high end use. At stock RPM range, there's just not enough gas flow to really take advantage of what the 3582 needs to make best power.

benflynn · 03-05-2023, 08:49 AM

E85 E85

K3rm1tth3fr0g · 03-05-2023, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benflynn

E85 E85

Mauled · 05-12-2023, 07:18 PM

Well my heads are fully built, but the bottom end is stock. I might get a 3576r. I can't find any info about people running a 3576 or a 3582 on a ej207. My car makes 27psi by 5k rpm. Just wondering when you think the 3576 will spool? And will it hit 500whp with meth?

FuJi K · 05-23-2023, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauled

Well my heads are fully built, but the bottom end is stock. I might get a 3576r. I can't find any info about people running a 3576 or a 3582 on a ej207. My car makes 27psi by 5k rpm. Just wondering when you think the 3576 will spool? And will it hit 500whp with meth?

The 3582 will get you 500whp no problem. Just remember you'll need to run it in the mid/upper 20psi range to hit your 500whp.

The 3576 runs a smaller compressor wheel. It may come on a little quicker but you'll have to run it around 30psi range to clear 500whp.

Your stock bottom end will die eventually. Don't lean out or detonate.

Mauled · 05-24-2023, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuJi K

The 3582 will get you 500whp no problem. Just remember you'll need to run it in the mid/upper 20psi range to hit your 500whp.

The 3576 runs a smaller compressor wheel. It may come on a little quicker but you'll have to run it around 30psi range to clear 500whp.

Your stock bottom end will die eventually. Don't lean out or detonate.

What will the gtx 3582r spool at? I have gsc s1 cams and beehive springs plus aftermarket valves could I turn rev limit to 8500?

Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy. I don't want to spend 3k on just the turbo alone. Plus there's no actual data with the g series turbos that I can find. Even the gtx turbos don't have much info, cant find anyone running one on a ej207. When I switched from the gt3076 .63 to the gtx gen 2 .82 and added cams, my car doesn't spool up till 5k now, with the gt3076 I was making 24psi by 4200.

HughGordon · 05-24-2023, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauled

Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy.

You can get a G-series copy too.

subaru_gc8 · 05-23-2023, 11:52 AM

my question is why not consider a g30 770 if you are looking for the 500 level? why not go with the newer tech?

K3rm1tth3fr0g · 05-23-2023, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaru_gc8

my question is why not consider a g30 770 if you are looking for the 500 level? why not go with the newer tech?

Couldn't agree more

G30 770 is the ultimate SWEET spot for ~500+

Gt30 spool and response with gt35 power

stiaddict07 · 06-02-2023, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g

Couldn't agree more

G30 770 is the ultimate SWEET spot for ~500+

Gt30 spool and response with gt35 power

Can the G30 770 fit in stock location?

HughGordon · 06-02-2023, 01:38 PM

You can make it fit with adapters. OP has a rotated setup though.

subaru_gc8 · 06-02-2023, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiaddict07

Can the G30 770 fit in stock location?

no you're going to have to go rotated, the g series are a lot bigger and heavier than the gtx series

HughGordon · 06-04-2023, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaru_gc8

no you're going to have to go rotated, the g series are a lot bigger and heavier than the gtx series

Not true. They are almost identical in size. Yes in most cases you'd have to go rotated unless you have some adapters fabricated and grind your block.

Chocco · 06-24-2023, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaru_gc8

no you're going to have to go rotated, the g series are a lot bigger and heavier than the gtx series

Totally incorrect lol...

Chocco · 06-24-2023, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaru_gc8

no you're going to have to go rotated, the g series are a lot bigger and heavier than the gtx series

Totally incorrect lol...

Mauled · 05-24-2023, 03:51 PM

Who makes it? But still I have no idea when it will spool, haven't seen much info on these turbos on our cars.

Also my tuner won't go past 24-26psi of boost so i can't be running 30psi

K3rm1tth3fr0g · 05-24-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauled

What will the gtx 3582r spool at? I have gsc s1 cams and beehive springs plus aftermarket valves could I turn rev limit to 8500?

Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy. I don't want to spend 3k on just the turbo alone. Plus there's no actual data with the g series turbos that I can find. Even the gtx turbos don't have much info, cant find anyone running one on a ej207. When I switched from the gt3076 .63 to the gtx gen 2 .82 and added cams, my car doesn't spool up till 5k now, with the gt3076 I was making 24psi by 4200.

Late, like 4500+

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGordon

You can get a G-series copy too.

A crappy one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauled

Who makes it? But still I have no idea when it will spool, haven't seen much info on these turbos on our cars.

Also my tuner won't go past 24-26psi of boost so i can't be running 30psi

Wut? Who's the tuner

Why in the hell does your tuner have an arbitrary boost limit without even knowing the turbo?

Max boost absolutely depends on the specific turbo and it's efficiency islands. Saying 24-26 is the max is quite silly and makes no sense.

What makes 27psi inherently more dangerous than 26? Nothing aside from the increased flow

Made up limits are dumb

HughGordon · 05-24-2023, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g

A crappy one

Yeah or a good one...

K3rm1tth3fr0g · 05-24-2023, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGordon

Yeah or a good one...

Good knock off turbos are virtually non existent without spending 65%+ of the cost of the real product.

This is even more true with the ultra cutting edge tech like the G series....

HughGordon · 05-24-2023, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g

Good knock off turbos are virtually non existent without spending 65%+ of the cost of the real product.

This is even more true with the ultra cutting edge tech like the G series....

Yeah ok, what do you think is so expensive to make on a G-series turbo? The copies don't have a Mar-M turbine but who really cares about that unless you plan on running a lot of anti lag and such. Turbos are way overpriced it's rediculous.

HughGordon · 05-24-2023, 05:17 PM

double post

Mauled · 05-24-2023, 05:31 PM

I've asked tuner if he could do 30psi but he said since the bottom end is stock he doesn't feel safe doing it. Also I disagree my last gt3076 was $200 and I kept up with cars making 500whp, never had a problem with it only pulled it to get a gtx. I understand wanting the real thing but the gt I had performed exactly like a garrett. I've had knock off turbos for 4 years now, as well as the wrx 5 speed that hasn't blown up yet. My friend who drifts his car has a no name gtx3582r and drifts it every weekend with no issue. The knock off turbos are better then you think.

HughGordon · 05-24-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauled

. The knock off turbos are better then you think.

Totally agree with you there. Turbos cost such little money to manufacture. It's funny because in v8 turbo world, people think that VS racing turbos are expensive.

03-04-2023, 07:28 PM	#1
Mauled Scooby Newbie Member#: 500169 Join Date: Apr 2019	Gtx 3076r gen 2 vs gtx3582r gen 2 ej207 I have a gtx30r gen 2 .82 currently on a ej207 v8 with built heads and cams. Wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to a gtx35r and how much power gain I would see. Currently I make full boost at 4.8k which is 28psi. I want to crack 500whp, I have no idea what power I'm making now, I'd say around 480. If I get the 35r gen 2 should I go .63 or .82? Also could I turn the rpm up to 8500 safely? Car is 2005 wrx, daily driver, no track time Ej207 v8 gsc s1 cams valves springs retainers 50/50 meth injection and 93.

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03-04-2023, 09:32 PM	#2
K3rm1tth3fr0g Scooby Specialist Member#: 508105 Join Date: Nov 2019 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Greater Seattle Area Vehicle: Link G4X flex tuned 02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon	Many many variables here. Too many to say anything with certainty. Going from a GT30 to a GT35 will certainly open up the topend while killing midrange, but exactly how much depends on the turbo. The 3576 Gen 2 is actually a more balanced turbo than the 3076 you're on now, of which it shares its compressor wheel dimensions. It's much better suited for 500+ applications than the 3076. I have a Gen 2 3576 in my garage waiting for my built motor. Without corn makes hitting 500 tougher but the meth of course helps - you just risk the meth system failing and the motor blowing up at high RPM... Such is life without corn. I would guess going to a 3576 with a .82 you'd spool just a hair later with a lot more topend. Being a 2.0L though does seriously hinder spool and boost threshold though. There are many schools of though regarding A/R selection. .82 is a good middleground for most setups, with the 1.xx A/Rs typically either killing spool/boost threshold, or making the motor feel more N/A like with a more linear power delivery. The ladder of which can actually be preferable. .63 will hit hard but drop off, not really what you want if you're sizing up to a GT35, though on a 2.0L a GT35 w/ a .63 house makes much more sense than a 2.5L. I'd stay .82 probably though if you are up-sizing turbos. With a 3576 you could probably hit 500 with meth. Same with 3582 but the spool and response will be considerably worse. Do you have a tuner who you can discuss options with? They are always a good resource to engage if possible as they have a good understanding of the ramp rates, and how A/R affects power and spool. I would advise getting on a dyno rather than E-tuning a setup like this. Not to throw another wrench in the mix but the EFR turbos also kick ass.

03-05-2023, 08:41 AM	#3
KillerBMotorsport NASIOC Vendor Member#: 198281 Join Date: Dec 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Virginia Vehicle: 2005 WRX/STi WRB of course	I would start with getting the car on a dyno as-is, so you know where you are truly starting from. 20whp is not a big gain and could potentially done with other mods alone. Heck, with an EJ20 and cams already, you could go to the next size A/R (1.06 IIRC) and gain that 20 you're looking for up top. Going from a 3076 to 3576 will typically yield 80-100whp on an EJ25, on an EJ20 less, but still more than enough to exceed your goal with minimal increase in spool time. A 3582 will add a lot of lag. On an EJ20, you'd really want to have the heads built for high end use. At stock RPM range, there's just not enough gas flow to really take advantage of what the 3582 needs to make best power.

03-05-2023, 08:49 AM	#4
benflynn Scooby Specialist Member#: 515308 Join Date: Jun 2020	E85 E85

05-12-2023, 07:18 PM	#6
Mauled Scooby Newbie Member#: 500169 Join Date: Apr 2019	Well my heads are fully built, but the bottom end is stock. I might get a 3576r. I can't find any info about people running a 3576 or a 3582 on a ej207. My car makes 27psi by 5k rpm. Just wondering when you think the 3576 will spool? And will it hit 500whp with meth?

05-23-2023, 11:52 AM	#10
subaru_gc8 Scooby Specialist Member#: 29292 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Orange County CA Vehicle: 2004 WRX wagon silver	my question is why not consider a g30 770 if you are looking for the 500 level? why not go with the newer tech?

06-02-2023, 01:38 PM	#13
HughGordon Scooby Newbie Member#: 355996 Join Date: May 2013	You can make it fit with adapters. OP has a rotated setup though.

05-24-2023, 03:51 PM	#18
Mauled Scooby Newbie Member#: 500169 Join Date: Apr 2019	Who makes it? But still I have no idea when it will spool, haven't seen much info on these turbos on our cars. Also my tuner won't go past 24-26psi of boost so i can't be running 30psi

05-24-2023, 05:17 PM	#23
HughGordon Scooby Newbie Member#: 355996 Join Date: May 2013	double post

05-24-2023, 05:31 PM	#24
Mauled Scooby Newbie Member#: 500169 Join Date: Apr 2019	I've asked tuner if he could do 30psi but he said since the bottom end is stock he doesn't feel safe doing it. Also I disagree my last gt3076 was $200 and I kept up with cars making 500whp, never had a problem with it only pulled it to get a gtx. I understand wanting the real thing but the gt I had performed exactly like a garrett. I've had knock off turbos for 4 years now, as well as the wrx 5 speed that hasn't blown up yet. My friend who drifts his car has a no name gtx3582r and drifts it every weekend with no issue. The knock off turbos are better then you think.