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Old 05-03-2023, 05:43 AM   #1
Domi
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Default Turning by hand noise.

Is this normal ? Nothing is binding and everything spins freely, it sounds like valves to me but this is my first EJ. All my timing marks match up, am i being paranoid or am i missing something?

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Old 05-03-2023, 03:33 PM   #2
Elbert Bass
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Without you giving us ANY information as to what repair/replacement you have done or where you exactly you hear the noise it's anyone's guess.
Could you have had the case bored and new pistons/rings? Head gaskets? What was done???? We aren't mind readers.

Sounds like compression leakage on a dry engine (fresh/new/unstarted).
Have you isolated where the noise is from?
Is it from the oil fill tube? That would be normal.
Is it from the intake? Not normal.
Is it from the exhaust ports? Not normal.
Did you oil the rings and pistons when/if installing? I always swipe a rag with oil around the cylinder walls a couple times and giving the crank a turn between swipes whether its a simple head gasket repair or a full rebuild before installing heads. That way the rings aren't grinding bare metal until the engine oil pressure builds enough to splash oil from the rod journals. (how the pistons/rings get oil)
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Old 05-03-2023, 05:52 PM   #3
Domi
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Yes, everything is lubed accordingly. Sounds like the heads, the whole assembly is ***129480; smooth. This isn't my first engine build, it's my first Ej.

I'm asking specifically, there is a very distinct sound, not the air being moved by the pistons, not the sound of the rings. If you listen you can hear a slight clunk. I just wanted to see if someone with experience has heard this noise before. If it's " Normal "

I linked a video, with audio. Everything is new except the heads, which have around 50k on them. The sound happens on both heads while turning the crank. Timing is perfect. All new timing components, it's a built stage 2 shortblock.

Last edited by Domi; 05-03-2023 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:16 PM   #4
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Yes, everything is lubed accordingly. Sounds like the heads, the whole assembly is smooth. This isn't my first engine build, it's my first Ej.

I'm asking specifically, there is a very distinct sound, not the air being moved by the pistons, not the sound of the rings. If you listen you can hear a slight clunk. I just wanted to see if someone with experience has heard this noise before. If it's " Normal "

I linked a video, with audio, i didn't ask a vague question. Everything is new except the heads, which have around 50k on them. The sound happens on both heads while turning the crank. Timing is perfect. All new timing components, it's a built stage 2 shortblock.

Literally everything is brand new except the heads, which as i said before were gone through by outfront motorsports, cleaned, decked, valve job, all the things. New head gaskets, new seals, new everything.
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:32 PM   #5
19std
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That old head that responded knows what hes talking about lol! You'll just have to grin through his crochety old ways, but hes one of the few people thay will be able to effectively answer your question *for free on teh internet* and give you the best internet advice chance of not grenading your engine.
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Old 05-03-2023, 09:47 PM   #6
Domi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19std View Post
That old head that responded knows what hes talking about lol! You'll just have to grin through his crochety old ways, but hes one of the few people thay will be able to effectively answer your question *for free on teh internet* and give you the best internet advice chance of not grenading your engine.
Oh no, I'm not doubting his ability at all. Literally everything is new but the heads. The old motor spun a rod. Anything oil touched has been replaced/cleaned. I don't believe what im hearing is an issue. Im just trying to be cautious. Other than uploading a video im not sure what else i can do.

Everything was torqued to spec according to the fsm, nothing is binding, you can't feel anything catching while rotating the assembly. It's ridiculously smooth. Just that slight noise coming from what i believe are the heads.

All the timing marks line up perfectly. Good tension on the timing belt. I went with the torque solution avcs cam bolts, caps we torqued correctly. Heads were completely gone through by outfront. MLS head gasket. Entire engine has all new seals. Arp head studs. Followed ARPs specs to a T.

I'm pretty meticulous, i overthink everything and i don't do anything without researching it first. I'm just not sure if that noise is normal for these EJ25's or im being paranoid for no reason. It's kind of silly how smooth this assembly rotates. That noise i making me paranoid.

I applied assembly lube where applicable, i oiled the cylinder walls. New dowel pins for the block to head. The list goes on.
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Old 05-03-2023, 11:11 PM   #7
19std
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Man I would be super paranoid too. I am planning a build and spending too much time here, you dont know what you dont know. And there are several failures on startup threads, like 4 very recently.

I should just get off the internet....
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Old 05-04-2023, 11:38 AM   #8
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I don't think that is normal.
I can't even think of anything that would clunk. At the speed you're turning the crank everything should be pretty slow and controlled.
Did you turn the short block over before you installed the heads?
You said it sounds like the heads, can you tell which side this comes from?

tough to hear very well in this video but no clunk.

Last edited by kakarot09; 05-05-2023 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 05-04-2023, 07:23 PM   #9
Elbert Bass
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Went back and listened again - I thought that was you hitting the timing cover originally. You are close - Those thunks really sound like the camshaft unloading from valve spring pressure - most likely a cam sprocket that is not locked.
Are the cam sprockets the original ones or did you buy new?
Did you happen to feel if the sprockets were locked when/if you removed/installed them?
You can verify that by popping off the rocker covers - you will see the offending cam "jump" when it loads/unloads. If they are the original sprockets it's 50/50 that a sprocket is damaged or just didn't lock when the engine was stopped. Usually the sprockets will lock if you rotate it back and forth holding the cam.
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Old 05-05-2023, 11:35 AM   #10
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Like Bass said, I would open the valve/cam covers and see what the cams are doing.
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Old 05-07-2023, 09:28 AM   #11
Domi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
Went back and listened again - I thought that was you hitting the timing cover originally. You are close - Those thunks really sound like the camshaft unloading from valve spring pressure - most likely a cam sprocket that is not locked.
Are the cam sprockets the original ones or did you buy new?
Did you happen to feel if the sprockets were locked when/if you removed/installed them?
You can verify that by popping off the rocker covers - you will see the offending cam "jump" when it loads/unloads. If they are the original sprockets it's 50/50 that a sprocket is damaged or just didn't lock when the engine was stopped. Usually the sprockets will lock if you rotate it back and forth holding the cam.
works had me pretty busy lately and i haven't had time to mess with it. I had Outfront reman my avcs cam gears, maybe that's it. When i get some time ill pull the timing and valve covers off and see what's going on.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 05-07-2023, 12:12 PM   #12
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domi View Post
works had me pretty busy lately and i haven't had time to mess with it. I had Outfront reman my avcs cam gears, maybe that's it. When i get some time ill pull the timing and valve covers off and see what's going on.

Thanks for the replies.
OK, now we're getting somewhere. Knowing that the sprockets had been "remanufactured" points to the most likely issue and a much simpler diagnostic test.

Leave the rocker covers on. Pull timing cover. Set the crank for TDC #1. Remove timing belt. Pull the sprocket covers. Hold the 10mm hex in each cam sprocket with a socket and try and spin the toothed section by hand. If one or more rotates a few degrees that is your problem/clunk. Any that move should eventually click and lock when spun back and forth. If they don't lock they need to go back to the "remanufacturer" for what is known as "further service".

Oh yes - make sure the dowel in the cam is in the correct hole in the sprockets - you can install the VVT sprockets with the dowel in an oil hole.

Last edited by Elbert Bass; 05-07-2023 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 05-07-2023, 02:17 PM   #13
Domi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
OK,

Oh yes - make sure the dowel in the cam is in the correct hole in the sprockets - you can install the VVT sprockets with the dowel in an oil hole.
I was super anal about this step, i knew it was coming from the heads. It sounded like the valvetrain to me.
I'll check the cam sprockets as soon as i get time, i remember test fitting them onto the corresponding cams before i had the heads back on. I can't remember if they were locked or not.

https://youtu.be/xMODC16Vy_k

Last edited by Domi; 05-07-2023 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 06-19-2023, 11:00 AM   #14
spoolinsti05
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What is the exhaust gas temperature? If I had to guess you're seeing 1700-1800 I wouldn't change anything. Maybe if you got a better fuel then you could. Assuming you're on pump gas?

You need to check your exhaust back pressure. And egt. Then you'll know if you can turn it up any further.

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Old 06-29-2023, 08:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
What is the exhaust gas temperature? If I had to guess you're seeing 1700-1800 I wouldn't change anything. Maybe if you got a better fuel then you could. Assuming you're on pump gas?

You need to check your exhaust back pressure. And egt. Then you'll know if you can turn it up any further.

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Wrong thread. Posted mods delete this. As for your noise it's probably the oil solenoids. Check them.

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Old 06-29-2023, 10:30 PM   #16
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I forgot to ask what rods are in your engine? Some of the thicker h beam rods contact the engine casing. And you'll need to trim the block for clearance.

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