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Old 01-30-2006, 04:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
I am glad to finally see some empirical evidence to back this up. I have been telling people this for years and generally been blown off. Mike Shields at SPD also has spoken about this, and generally he is dead on with his tech.

As Storm said, it's not a difference in the engine that makes this, it is the tuning. This is why the Ej205 is rated at 250hp in Japan while it is 227 here. This is why Cobb can get so much power out of their reflashes. The ECU's come to us really conservatively tuned in USDM trim.

As for the whole pricing debate, I have long asserted that teh best deal going is the '97-98 plain jane WRX swaps. Those longblocks are very similar to their STI counterparts for far less than the STI premium pricetag. I would jump on a v3 or v4 non-Sti swap in a minute over a USDM swap. I can easily get 100 octane gas here in Colorado...
Yup, and the EJ207 is rated 280 in Japan and 250in the UK... Running a JDM EJ207 on UK gas is reported to cause failures after some time (year+). Indeed, it is all in the tuning. It is however important to note that the JDM blocks (at least the EJ207) are *designed* for those power levels. My engine block might hold 400WHP with a proper tune whereas a USDM one would fold rods and snap cranks at those power levels.

"ok, i started my jdm sti on 110 and it deffenetly made a difference in power as well as no knocking, but the only way of course to get it is in a can. but, 110 is so much hevier than 93octane, wouldnt it just sink to the bottem of the tank if you mixed it??? "

Does the alcohol in your beer rise to the top too? Alcohol is much less dense than water...

"You gotta pay tax on race gas? In OH. we don't pay tax cuz' the fuel is not "legal for highway use"."

Nope, no taxes at all... Citgo gas stations carry 110 on pump here because boats, snowmobiles, go karts and some off road vehicles run it, and it is "for off road use only". I wonder what the fine would be for getting caught pumping that into your car...
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
I can easily get 100 octane gas here in Colorado...
we'll talk.
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS
we'll talk.
ok. I have a whole drum of it here at work...
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Old 01-30-2006, 07:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
ok. I have a whole drum of it here at work...
Gimme Gimme!
The 100 octane is non leaded, right?
That's the only downside of running 110... I don't have any cats but I know the lead is going to cost me a $70 O2 sensor some time down the road... Oh well... The power is worth it!
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:08 PM   #30
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JDM rating is 280PS . That works out to something like 276 hp !
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:37 PM   #31
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there are a few pumps local to where I live that sells 100 octane unleaded at the pump...then several places to buy higher race gas...
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:47 PM   #32
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Actually we have 99 OCTANE in the UK being sold at Tesco. I believe we may get Shell's Vpower soon to compete with it.
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:56 PM   #33
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99RON most likely... Probably 95RON+MON/2 equivalent here in the US?
Some states get 94... I know we did in Vermont at Sunoco...
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:40 AM   #34
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I have been doing my research and am wanting to do a jdm swap (V1-5, whatever I can get my hands on) and am concerned about the tuning issues. I plan to use this car as a daily driver and Colorado has 91 at the pumps. Would it be possible to run say something like a cobb accessport so I can have a 91 map, then revert back to something possibly higher when I wanted to splurge on 100+ octane or is this not possible with the jdm ecu?

This is the only issue I truly am confused about.
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:33 AM   #35
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Starting at V5 there is exactly one place in all of this continent (south central and north America) that can reprogram your ECU; Lachute Subaru in Quebec Canada. They use ECUTEK99 and appearently there is a 20% chance that your ECU will be ruined in the (expensive) reflash process. I hear Yoshio from Japanese Automotive in Toronto can do it too, but a lot of people don't like him for some reason.
Accessport won't work.
Your options are either standalone (Link EMS and Apexi Power FC are direct ECU replacements, otherwise there is Hydra and the like) or piggyback (Unichip).
Another option could be a boost controller; run reduced boost when on low octane?

That said, Miles from FinelineImports tells me that they run all their JDM Swaps on california 91 Octane gas... He knows a LOT more about JDM than I ever will, so I won't argue with it, but you will be losing power.
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:38 AM   #36
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its not too bad, but you will lose power, which is a mute issue at the moment.

you can also take into account that out air is thinner, meaning the need for slightly less fuel, not a huge difference.

side note: i myself am in FoCo for the time being....
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:40 AM   #37
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Doesn't running an engine at higher altitudes require more octane?
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:41 AM   #38
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dont think so.

reason being less air.
same as dropping boost, dont need as much fuel support.

because there is less air, the knock index (octane) wouldnt need to be as high.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:15 AM   #39
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:06 AM   #40
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I love the altitude for running my Camaro (well other than the huge power loss), I can get away with a 40+ degrees of timing @ wot plus the bottle and no problems. I know how to tune GM stuff, but Subaru is all new to me.

So I suppose I can just let the computer adapt to the 91 and if I don't like the peroformance save up for a link. Thanks for the replies!

ps, if you see a silverthorne coupe with for sale tags and a v5 wing that would be me.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:07 AM   #41
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kbahus,
As Tyler mentioned, we can get away with lower octane up here in Colorado. This is why we get 87 instead of 89. 91 octane will be fine for a JDM swap. If you want to go the reflash route, the way to do it is get a JDM longblock and wire the car as a USDM WRX. Then you can have Harvey at Super Rupair do an ECUtek flash for you on their dyno down here in Boulder. I think the only reason more people don't do this is because of added cost. Personally, I think it is the best approach to get both maximum power on our local gas AND have a car that is OBD-II compliant. I know many don't care about it, but I am all about OBD-II compliance. It is spreading and more and more places are testing these days. when I build a car, I want to be able to have it for 5+ years or easily sell it. If it clears OBD-II emissions, you have a lot more leeway and don't risk waking up one morning and having your car illegal. Here in Boulder, they plugged my RS in last time I had to emissions test...
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:24 AM   #42
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I agree with you 100%, but unfortunately we are talking about a very significant additional cost here... You would need everything for a JDM swap, plus a USDM wiring harness, ECU and a completely custom reflash involving a fair amount of dyno time...
The wiring would also be quite a bit harder and if you were swapping, say, a V5, it would be Check Engine Light Codes galore (no EGT, no second O2 sensor, different recirc, no tumbler valves, etc).
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:32 AM   #43
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You wouldn't need a complete JDM swap, you would just need a JDM lonblock. Guys like Gruppe-S have longblocks without all the rest quite frequently. Then you buy a WRX front cut/complete swap, and sell off everything you don't use, like the Ej205 longblock. EGT and O2 sensor are in the plumbing, and can easily be added And reflashes can delete TGV's(or you could use the EJ205 intake). Not sure what you mean about the recirc...

As for the reflash, it wouldn't take any more time than any other reflash. And you could absolutely run the engine on the stock ECU programming for the Ej205 if you needed to save up the $400 for the ECUtek.

It would proably run you about $1000-2000 more to take this approach. It's really a personal decision if that is worth it to you or not. I am not going to sit here and argue with you about it. I am just making people who are interested that it absolutely can be done and it won't break the bank to do it unless you are one of those people who is trying to pull off a swap for $3000 or less...
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
unless you are one of those people who is trying to pull off a swap for $3000 or less...


And, for the record, unless you are swapping a really old engine (V1/V2?), it can't be done
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:45 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlabs
99RON most likely... Probably 95RON+MON/2 equivalent here in the US?
Some states get 94... I know we did in Vermont at Sunoco...

What part of we have 99 OCTANE didnt you understand? You think I dont know the difference between RON and OCTANE?
Sure we have Shell's Optimax that is 98RON but we now have Tesco's 99 OCTANE. There is no error on my part.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:08 PM   #46
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we can get 100 or 102 at the pump in ohio, and 117 in 5-50 gal. off road use drums. would it be better to just run the no lead pump gas because of the sensor failures? it's on the way to the strip too, which helps! and how long should it take to reset your computer? do you have to step on the brakes(to discharge capacitors) like some cars to drain the system fully? thanks! -keith
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Old 01-31-2006, 03:25 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVM
What part of we have 99 OCTANE didnt you understand? You think I dont know the difference between RON and OCTANE?
Sure we have Shell's Optimax that is 98RON but we now have Tesco's 99 OCTANE. There is no error on my part.
The part where you DID NOT DESCRIBE WHAT KIND OF OCTANE RATING YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ... "Octane" can mean Ron, Mon, or (Ron+Mon)/2. Simply saying "octane" is like saying "alcohol". Sure; what kind; methanol, ethanol, isopropanol, pentanol, butanol, isobutanol, octylic...?
I fail to see the need for this attitude of yours, and you are still wrong. If you are not in the US, where it is assumed that "Octane" means (Ron+Mon)/2 as per government standarts, you have to say "99 RON", as I clarified.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley 2.5 WRS
dont think so.

reason being less air.
same as dropping boost, dont need as much fuel support.

because there is less air, the knock index (octane) wouldnt need to be as high.
but octane and amount of fuel are two completely different things...you have fewer lbs of air per power stroke there for less fuel is needed...as for octane though, that depends on the timing, heat of the charge of air and basically all things knock related...NOT fuel consumption...
the lower octane sufficing is mearly a side effect of less actual compression happening...less friction etc...
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:10 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
but octane and amount of fuel are two completely different things...you have fewer lbs of air per power stroke there for less fuel is needed...as for octane though, that depends on the timing, heat of the charge of air and basically all things knock related...NOT fuel consumption...
the lower octane sufficing is mearly a side effect of less actual compression happening...less friction etc...
Taken from what powerlabs posted
Quote:
7.11 What is the effect of altitude?

The effect of increasing altitude may be nonlinear, with one study reporting
a decrease of the octane requirement of 1.4 RON/300m from sea level to 1800m and 2.5 RON/300m from 1800m to 3600m [27]. Other studies report the octane number requirement decreased by 1.0 - 1.9 RON/300m without specifying altitude [38]. Modern engine management systems can accommodate this adjustment, and in some recent studies, the octane number requirement was reduced by 0.2 - 0.5 (R+M)/2 per 300m increase in altitude.
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:43 PM   #50
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wow, time to bring that to my IC engine's prof...cause he just about flipped during a discussion when a kid said that...
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