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10-13-2000, 01:55 AM | #1 |
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Help Please: 2.5 RS vs. Legacy L vs. VW Jetta 1.8T
My fiance and I are trying to decide which of these three cars to purchase (new). The prices are almost exactly the same, so that's not an issue at all. I'm not looking for a sports car, but the more nimble and quick, the better. We also want AT. I'm 6'7" (long legs), 220lbs, so interior size matters.
So far I've test driven a Legacy L Wagon (I want a Sedan) and Jetta GL. That Jetta has 115hp, and felt the same as my 106hp Civic LX in terms of power. So I haven't even really driven any of the cars we're choosing between. Here are the major plusses and minuses that I've come up with from lots and lots of research (that I can remember this late): 2.5RS +Handling +AWD +Good safety +Standard CD player, floormats (no options needed) +Rear LSD and better suspension -Fiance hates the style, particularly the scoop (I'm not a scoop fan either, but not to the extreme she isn't) -Interior not that great -Don't want a sunroof Legacy +AWD +Even better safety +Low insurance rates +Style is easy to get along with -Perhaps underpowered -Heavier than others -A bit skimpy on standard features Jetta +Fiance loves the styling +Huge interior (back seat not a priority) +Lots of cool interior features -No AWD -Reliability a little questionable -Service reputation is horrible -High insurance rates If the RS looked less offensive (something like the MY02 without the scoop), we'd definitely get that, or if the Jetta had 4motion (VW's AWD) for a reasonable price, that'd be the one. Whether we move or not, there'll be a good amount of snow in the winter (nothing like Alaska though). If I were single, I'd just get the RS assuming I fit. My lease runs out in December, so unfortunately I can't wait for the MY02 Impreza TS (although I'm open to creative suggestions). Thanks tons, Luke
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10-13-2000, 06:26 AM | #2 |
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Get the RS and swap the hood with the L/TS owners. Simple. Case close. Move a long....nothing to see.
The JEtta is awesome. Do you want to chip it? If no it's a tad of a waste. Might as well get the VR6 Jetta. But I've been hearing alot of problems with VW cars.... |
10-13-2000, 06:31 AM | #3 |
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Get the Legacy.
It's heavier and thus a bit slower but it's much more of a touring car than the RS ever will be. Find a GT model though, as they're almost the same price as the RS and with the same and more features. Almost any parts the work on the 2.5 will work on the Legacy GT engine, including the Turbo kits. |
10-13-2000, 06:41 AM | #4 |
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For more info on the Jetta, check out forums.vwvortex.com . Before we got our RS sedan my wife and I looked at the Jetta 1.8T and the VR6, and to be honest neither car did it for us. I had previously owned a VW Passat 1.8T and, as you can see, now own an A4 1.8T. The engine's nice, and if you chip it it's killer, but in the Jetta it just didn't work. There's a lot of turbo lag too. As far as reliability, there really isn't an issue. The 1.8T engine's been around since 1997 here in the U.S., and since '95 (IIRC) in Europe. It's a great engine ... very modifiable. We chose the the RS because of the AWD. As you noted, you can't get that with the Jetta. Plus, the lease payments on the Jetta were way too high ... like $380/month with $2000 down.
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10-13-2000, 07:47 AM | #5 |
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Thanks for the responses so far guys!
Gambit: How hard do you think it would be to swap hoods? Would I have to find an Impreza L owner, convince the dealer to swap, or could I perhaps order the car that way (laugh if you need to)? How expensive is a hood anyway? I've also heard plenty of Jetta VR6 owners who wish they'd bought the 1.8T instead, plus it's cheaper and more fuel efficient. DLC: I thought about the GT, but I want to stay in the $20.5K price range, and the GT is about $3500 more than the L. I like the rear LSD and sport suspension in the GT, but it doesn't come with a CD player for the extra price, I don't like the fakish wood grain interior, and it's heavier (90lbs more). Did I miss any other major advantages the GT has? AudiGuy: Heard about the lag in the turbo, but I could probably live with it. My fiance loves the Jetta, and I think it's cool too, but I'm really worried about the service when little things go wrong (not with the engine). Jetta's are all over the place here, which is another reason I don't want one. BTW, I'm not really looking to mod the car, at least not in the forseeable future. I will take care of it, but the less fiddling I have to do the better. Thanks so much, Luke |
10-13-2000, 07:47 AM | #6 |
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We had pretty similar choices last year and went with the RS. I prefered the smaller RS to the Legacy because I often have to paralel park in really tight places and it is pretty roomy for a small car. I am 6'2" 210Lbs and headroom is not an issue for me, even with a helmet.
When we were looking the only VW engine options were the 2.0, the VR6 and the deisel. The 2.0 was a dog, I don't even consider diesels and the VR6 was too expensive and really hurts the weight distribution. If the 1.8T were available, it would be a tougher choice, but I still think the AWD, reliabilty and safety records would have swayed us toward the RS. You get used to the hood and the sedan spoiler doesn't scream "ticket me" like the coupe wing does. Tim |
10-13-2000, 08:06 AM | #7 |
GC84Ever
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Jetta - gak!! Reliability??? don't do it... especially if it's made in Mexico. sorry, but I am a former VW person and 3 out of 10 of the Jettas out there are crap! Engine, electrical problems like you wouldn't believe!! I spent waaaaay too much $$ keeping that p.o.s. drivable... I will never own another Jetta again... and yes i had a GL model -
RS - great car... but you are HOW TALL you may find it a bit uncomfortable in there... and unless you get a L or a brighton, you will have a sunroof - but it is a reliable, dependable vehicle Legacy - don't get the L - they are down on power and just blaaaaaaaah.... I HAD to drive one of those when my GT was getting serviced... aaaahhh gak! Not the same as my GT... not a bad car overall, just way different from my own. If you get a Legacy, I suggest spending just a tad more and get the GT model - Better stying, options, 165hp, roomy, fold down seats, height adjustable seats etc. just my $.02 |
10-13-2000, 09:00 AM | #8 |
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I would get a Legacy L since you don;t seem to be 100% performance guy. the Legacy GT isn't worth buying in my book, as all it adds is useless stuff, and some nifty rims.
I would personaly get the wagon as it has more room, doesn't wiegh that much more, and insurance should be cheaper. If power is a problem just think of all the stuff for the 2.5RS that fits the legacy. Plus you can go for the Twin turbo GT-B/B4 motor and the 2.5RS crowd can't. Oh and you forgot the Forester. Its really The impreza Wagon, as what Subaru calls the impreza wagon is really a 5dr hatch. |
10-13-2000, 09:17 AM | #9 |
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boxerman: Good point about the spoiler and cops. That's one thing that worries me about the RS that the Legacy wouldn't. I do like driving fast (not racing though), so I'd feel a little worried about the RS drawing police attention.
Subie Gal: I'm pretty sure you're mostly talking about the older model years. The Brighton doesn't exist any more. The new Legacy L has 165hp and fold down seats (according to Subaru, I didn't check). Good point about height adjustable seats though. Your reaction to VW is what makes me nervous about getting one. XT6Wagon: I thought about a wagon, but I don't need it, and I don't like the look personally (wagons in general really). If the OBS had 2.5L, I'd consider it. Don't want a Forester. I would consider an Impreza L if it had ABS, oh well. Does anyone know more info on the MY02 Impreza TS? Is it basically a RS2.5 in a new body? When will it be available? Thanks guys (and girl)!!! Luke |
10-13-2000, 09:43 AM | #10 |
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One simple answer. Get the RS. It'll be worth it in the long run.
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10-13-2000, 10:00 AM | #11 |
Allergic to turbos
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Remember Subie Gal, all new Legacys (2000) and up come with the 2.5 engine. I actually looked at a L sedan last weekend. I'd get the GT, but it comes with stuff I don't want, plus I can't get it in the dark blue.
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10-13-2000, 10:15 AM | #12 |
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If I was 6'7" (6 inches taller) and was in the market for a small car, I would DEFINATELY want the sunroof. Oh, and you might want to by some goggles, those bugs kind of sting when they slam into your eyeball. haha. all in good fun.
skel |
10-13-2000, 10:23 AM | #13 |
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Stay away from the VW! My wife has a 99 Beetle GLS and the engine check light comes on every now and then. Bone stock.
Dealer says it has to do with the bad fuel in Michigan (what bull is that?). She should keep on driving, it'll go away by itself! I don't think so. They try to dick around, no loaner car, needs to be in the shop for several days because of the 50(!) sensors under the hood. Please name all 50 sensors, @-hole! And the diagnosis takes a short amount of time, hook up the diagnosiscomputer, look at the errorcode, replace the part, done. No more VW, Subaru is way more courteous, I have a loaner of the lot during the repair of my RS. Thats service! F@#! VW dealers! 666 |
10-13-2000, 10:26 AM | #14 |
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Since i'm a BC-BF Legacy buff i didn't know that the 2.5 is standard now in the MY00 and above.
Go for the L then. The GT does have some neato stuff but if you don't want most of it you can probably order one with what you want, or just find one and/or add what you can later. The wheels are so nice, but you can get them from someone upgrading. I'm also a wagon owner, so i'm partial to them as the extra room is sweet and i thin k the wagon style is more oleasing to the eye than a sedan. TBH, if there was a VW Jetta TDI with AWD i'd probably get it. Diesels make mad torque and since it's turbo already, madder torque can easily be gotten from it. SCC has a Golf with over 220 lb/ft! Oh, and 35-40MPG isn't too bad either! |
10-13-2000, 10:34 AM | #15 |
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It's easy to find an L owner would actually end up paying on top of the exchange of the hood.
All Legacy as of 2000 gets a 2.5l. The L is a good start especially if you're gonna swap out pieces anyways. I mean Subie gal, you've paid premium for parts which you ended up swapping it out so who's at the loss? |
10-13-2000, 11:05 AM | #16 |
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Just this past spring my wife and I were shopping for a new car and we considered the 2000 Jetta. When I was at the dealer (that also sells VW's) getting my cruise control in the RS fixed I asked the tech what he though about the Jettas (from a reliability stand point) and he told me that they get a lot of them in for electrical problems (sensors, etc.) and pretty frequently. He didn't recommend buying the car. Upon looking around the shop it then occured to me - there was only one other subaru there besides mine, a few BMW's, and all the rest were VW's (jettas and bugs).
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10-13-2000, 11:20 AM | #17 |
GC84Ever
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ok u guys got me...
didn't realize the "L" came w/a 2.5 now... so maybe that's not so bad, eh? You are correct, you could buy an "L" and add basically everything to it.. I see your point... exactly why i didn't buy the GT Limited... why pay for stuff i don't want??? but PLEASE don't buy a VW... do a search on the internet... others will warn you... they are an electronic mess!!!! j. |
10-13-2000, 02:10 PM | #18 |
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Once again, thanks everyone! I'll be mulling over this one for a little while, but I'm starting to lean away from the Jetta now. The comfort of the interior probably isn't worth the cost of possible problems (car and dealership-wise) in the future. I feel very comfortable now in my Civic LX (w/CD), and the Subarus I'm looking at are around the same level from what I've gathered (sitting, test-driving, and reading about them).
Between the RS and Legacy L, it'll probably come down to test-driving the RS2.5 (dealer doesn't have any RS2.5 ATs right now) and a bit of which car I can get a great deal on. If I can get a great price on a Legacy GT (like a leftover MY00), I may go for that. More suggestions and points of view are welcome, and I'll let you guys know what I end up doing. Thanks again! Luke |
10-13-2000, 02:31 PM | #19 |
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Luke,
The 1.8T is a 150 hp engine, easily chipped to 180 hp. If you drove a 115 hp version, it was the 2.0 w/out the turbo -- severely underpowered. I've got a '96 VW, and have had 3 non-maintenance repair issues in 5 years of hard driving (wheel bearing, window regulator, hyper alarm system). Not bad in my opionion. Hardly a piece of junk. The VR6 is not the power icon that it used to be. 174 hp is actually less than a chipped 1.8T. It comes down to this: If you value comfort, get the Jetta. If you value driving, get the 2.5 RS. |
10-13-2000, 02:52 PM | #20 |
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T-WRX hit the nail on the head.
Get both! I've got a '99RS and a '00 Golf 1.8T. (I don't like the jettas *at all*). The VW is *way* nicer than the RS on the inside. Rides like a boat though... I would *only* get a VW if you've got a really good local dealer. Our local VW dealer is wonderful, our sube dealer is crap. The sube dealer doesn't matter to me much, because I feel like I can do anything I'd ever need to do to the RS, and I can go to Portland if it needs warranty work. I'd really rather not touch the Golf, way too much wackiness under that hood for me. Luckily they'll do all the work for free for the first couple of years. Can you tell the RS is mine and the Golf's my wife's? Personally, I like 'em both, but if I had to chose only one, there's no question, it'd be the RS... Of course, then I'd have to get a divorce My wife swears she'll never buy another brand of car (of course it's only got like 3000 miles on it so nothing's broken yet...). Sean Edit: Forgot to mention: SCC dyno'd a stock 1.8T motor (in a Golf) at 147hp to the wheels, and something even higher for the torque figures. The thinking is that they downrate the 1.8T to try to sell more VR6es, since they're more expensive. If you go the VW route, definately get the 1.8T -- nearly the same power, better mileage (my wife gets about 28...), and easily modded if you want to. [This message has been edited by rosss (edited October 13, 2000).] |
10-13-2000, 03:35 PM | #21 |
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I'm 6'4" and fit in the RS just fine. If you wait a few months you can get the RS pretty cheap when the new impreza comes out. I say go for the RS.......or you will regret it like I do.
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10-13-2000, 06:30 PM | #22 |
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Whoa, whoa, whooaa! T-WRX, what you mean "if you want comfort get the VW?" Both my wife and I drove the jetta a couple of times and we both had the same conclusion: the seats are very short (bottom part) which will make long drives uncomfortable (we both drive about 25K/yr so we should know), the steering was too loose, and the suspension was too soft.
As for comfort in the RS, I've had a few people tell me they thought the ride in the RS was suprisingly smooth and in my opinion the front seats are much more comfortable. Granted the jetta has some nice convenience features that the RS doesn't, but more comfortable - don't think so. |
10-13-2000, 07:46 PM | #23 |
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OK, I have a MY00 RS, I'm 6'2" and fit fine. It might be tighter for you. My wife has a MY01 L Wagon. Both have the 2.5 engine. Mine is a 5sp and hers is an AT. Big differnce in the way the cars feel. The RS is a lot more sporty than the L. The seats are completely different. The seats in our L do not adjust for height (of course neither do the RS's) and I feel more confined in the wagon. Go figure.
Now if you look at the RS sedan instead of the coupe this might meet your needs for something a little less sporty looking (smaller wing) but still a blast to drive in stock form. I went with the coupe so I could freak out my peers. But thats me. |
10-13-2000, 10:43 PM | #24 |
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My fiance has a 95 Jetta GL. Nothing but crap! It has 60,000 miles on it and the thing is falling apart all over the place. My 98 RS has 52,000 miles on it and not a single thing has broken on it at all(other than what the previous owner broke i.e. chopped springs and blown clutch). For some reason almost all women love VW's, I can not for the life of me figure it out. My fiance's step mom has a 99 Jetta GL with automatic. About every 2 months she goes to take off and the dang thing will not come out of park. If you are looking for reliability in an auto overlook VW please. The less Mexican VW's an the road the better. If you can find one made in Canada or Germany that might be a diff. story. All I have seen were made in Mexico though. Legacy, Impreza, Forrester or even the new Sentra I think would be great. Nissan makes some pretty awesome engines. I know, I work at a mechanic shop that only works on Toyota, Nissan, and the mighty Subaru. There is a reason we dont do VW. We dont have enough people working there to fix all those piles. Good luck.
[This message has been edited by GREEN HORNET (edited October 13, 2000).] |
10-13-2000, 10:51 PM | #25 |
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I spent about 8 months helping my mom buy a car. We test drove the Jetta VR6, Impreza RS, and the Legacy GT/and GT Limited. She finally decided on a GT Limited. Why? Ill run you through the reasons:
Jetta- At first, all those nifty gadgets VW has really had us interested. But my dad is 6'2", and he BARELY fit into that car. The Jetta may SEEM comfortable, but its very narrow, and the seats are way to short, not to mention that the back seat is almost VERTICAL! (I know you dont care, but its worth mentioning) The VR6 was pretty good, but the required premium gas will cost you, as well as the VERY expensive parts. Oh, and the handling is ok... Until you drive an RS/GT Limited. Impreza RS- The only reason my mom didnt get one was because the one she wanted (red w/ security package + auto) was sold by the time she got back to the lot... Anyway, the handling is superb, AWD is always a +, the interior may seem barely adequate at first, but its very comfortable and just right. My dad actually fit into it too! As for looks, everyone in my family really likes it. And aparently from this bbs, it DOES NOT attract cops like some other sporty-like cars do, and the hood scoop for some reason apeals to women j/k Anyway, the only problem when we test drove it was the slight wind noise, but most people dont care about that type of thing. Legacy SEDAN- Dont get the L. Unlike everyone else here, the only reason we even looked at the sedan was because of the sports package, better rims, better ground effects, and NO CRAPPY PLASTIC stuff on the side of the car (our last car had that, and it faded and now looks like crap). You might not be able to win a drag race in one, but the handling is very simular to a 3-series (just like 1 step below) for a luxury style sedan, and WAY better than any car we drove with that much interior room. Oh yea, the interior is very nice (the wood grain helped sell my dad on it) and EXTREMELY roomy. I just had some friends over who one of them was used to driving around in a Buick Park Avenue, and he was absolutly astonished at how much interior room that car has for being the dimensions it is. Oh, and we got the GT limited cause the price range we were shooting for was around $25k (the current "average" car price) but were also looking into the 3-series until we discovered the DEVIOUS package system BMW uses... Anyway, I say get a Legacy sedan... whatever you can afford... Or wait for the new Impreza to come out in a few months |
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