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Old 08-28-2005, 11:55 PM   #1
3DF
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OMGHi2U So when is Subaru going to wake up and make a 6 speed DSG auto tranny?

Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:58 PM   #2
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dsg?..
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:04 AM   #3
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DSG=direct shift gearbox= Clutchless manual transmission has a auto mode and a sport mode with launch controll (bmw's have it) with steering wheel paddles to shift I think it would be cool I have always wanted a Bmw with smg I think all sports cars should have an optional SMG and a conventional manual
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:11 AM   #4
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Subaru has a variety of gearboxes and technologies

we just dont get them all here in the States

Subaru B4 - has tiptronic steering wheel controlled shifting

Subaru R2 is a 7 speed sport shift, with optional supercharger

*shrug*

guess they'll expend the market when they deem fit.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:11 AM   #5
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hopefully never.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:26 AM   #6
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what the heck is an r2
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkey3k
what the heck is an r2



something I want desperately.


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574771
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:32 AM   #8
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it's the tops. The bottom is d2. sorry. That was bad.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkey3k
dsg?..
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DF
Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?
A lot of people hate the new manumatics. Car and Driver for instance. I think people who REALLY are into driving want 3 pedals in the box. I don't think Subaru gets enough of the middle range of people to warrant such an expensive transmission. Subaru's are still a ways off being Audi and BMW fighters as far as luxury, etc. They are always a little more pure...
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:33 AM   #11
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What you're asking for is already available from Prodrive. Sell your kidney.. and maybe a few other organs, and you'll be driving one in no time.

B4 = Legacy sedan.. and the USDM Legacy's with the 5EAT have steering wheel controlled shifting.

The 7 speed R2 gearbox is just a CVT with 7 presets that allow you to select 'gears'... just for fun. Not exactly cutting edge.

DSG is based on a completely different concept than SMG.. don't try to interchange the terms.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:50 AM   #12
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SMG= sower than manual gearbox....at least according to the reviews of the Z4 with the SMG.

All that aside, I really hope they never install it. I like the simplicity of the SUbaru platform and you can keep all teh stupid bells and whistles I dont want. Its just more crap to break. One of the last VW's I owned was an electronic nightmare that VWoA had to buy back from me and the other had to have all the window regulators replaced, all the coil packs replaced, the DBW module replaced, and the climate control system replaced. Yeah, two of those have supposedly been fixed but the DBW and CC were not and I only had the car for 18,000 miles. Thank GOD it was under warranty 'cause you dont wanna know how much a VW/Audi climate control module is.

Please keep the cars as simple as possible and leave all the electronic crap on the options list for me.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:00 AM   #13
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VW's also have DSG transmissions.

...........It's not winning anyone over in our lot... most people don't care about it, as long as it drives nice.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:38 AM   #14
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I don't see it coming any time soon. they just got the sportshift and I doubt many AT buyers will even use it. Very few will pay extra for DSG.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick
Very few will pay extra for DSG.
Have you seen the cost for the DSG/SMG option
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick
I don't see it coming any time soon. they just got the sportshift and I doubt many AT buyers will even use it. Very few will pay extra for DSG.
I tried the sportshift on my Tribeca couple times. It has a one or two seconds delay. Very annoying and not much useful unless you want to manually control gears at certain situations (like uphills etc.). It certainly shifts slower than in auto mode.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:14 AM   #17
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Audi/VW get there DSG from BorgWarner...is a Dual Clutchless Manual

BMW's SMG is only a Single Clutchless Manual

both are NOT true automatics since they do NOT have a torque converter...

plus rumors are that Mitsui is going to get there own version of DSG from BorgWarner also...


If Subaru wants to succeed in America, they should put one as a option in there cars.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DF
Knowing that Audi has their DSG up and going now, BMW has the SMG, and Mitsu is working on their own DSG on the Evo X.

Curious as to when you guys think Subaru is going to integrate a similar style tranny into the Impreza line up?

Sure, most people here drive 5spd or 6spd cars, but if Subaru is going to win over the USDM region, they're going to have to start putting the a newer tranny into the '08 Impreza?

The LegacyGT already has the 5spd sport shift, but that's not exactly cutting edge.

Sure, Americans are a different breed, traffic is a pain in the ass and people are getting tired of shifting while driving. I'm not blasting the hardcore ethuists, I'm simply wondering what people's take would be on them putting that in the STi / WRX on the next model revision?

For me at a least that have a wife that doesn't drive a stick and me growing up not having ever owned a manual.... a "fun" transmission would be worth a couple extra bills for enjoyment.

Thoughts?
Mitsu is trying to put an auto in the Evo X, huh ? Wow.... Goodbye Evo enthusiasts...... First, they're going to dump the 4G63 for this new Chrysler/Dodge/Hyundai developed "World Motor" and then add an automatic transmission (assuming this info is correct).... Wow.... That's all I can really say.....
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8
A lot of people hate the new manumatics. Car and Driver for instance. I think people who REALLY are into driving want 3 pedals in the box. I don't think Subaru gets enough of the middle range of people to warrant such an expensive transmission. Subaru's are still a ways off being Audi and BMW fighters as far as luxury, etc. They are always a little more pure...
Clarkson on Top Gear hates the "flappy paddle" gearboxes. It has taken me about a month to get used to mine. It isn't really a substitute for an automatic and they do have shortcomings. However, as a substitute for a manual (apart from lacking manual clutch control at low speeds) they are the business when you are going flat out, going around corners, etc.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy
What you're asking for is already available from Prodrive. Sell your kidney.. and maybe a few other organs, and you'll be driving one in no time.
Err no, theirs doesn't actuate the clutch for launches or shifts.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:38 AM   #21
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Give me a nice, slick, traditional 5 or 6spd manual any day of the week over those DSG/SMG/PDQ/BMW/BLAH/BLAH/BLAH boxes. Less crap to go wrong and more satisfying to drive.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acostafan
Give me a nice, slick, traditional 5 or 6spd manual any day of the week over those DSG/SMG/PDQ/BMW/BLAH/BLAH/BLAH boxes. Less crap to go wrong and more satisfying to drive.
EXACTLY...less crap to break and not as costly to fix when I do break it.

I guess I am gun-shy from having owned cars that even the factory trained "techs" could not fix.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Gal


something I want desperately.
No, really!?
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:52 PM   #24
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The elitist in me thinks that people who want a sporty ride should have to learn to use a clutch. It's like a hazing That said, it would be nice to not have to think about the clutch in stop-and-go traffic on a steep hill, but I am not sure how much I would be willing to pay for that, especially if it didn't work as well as my manual transmission.
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Wallace
Err no, theirs doesn't actuate the clutch for launches or shifts.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ed...206scc_techno/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Coleman
Prodrive NGT
Prodrive's NGT, or New Generation Transmission, is the one I would want in my car. In the most basic terms, the NGT is just like Toyota's SMT, a manual transmission under computer control, but instead of using an existing transmission, Prodrive started over. Conventional manuals are designed for human control. They have synchros, since we aren't precise enough to match gear speeds perfectly on each shift, and they're overbuilt to withstand abuses from simple clumsiness to outright mechanical hatred. The shift throws are long, so the driver doesn't get lost, and the shift mechanisms are large and elaborate to allow a single stick to do all the shifting. With computer control, none of this is necessary.

Eliminating the human allows Prodrive to stuff six or seven gears in the space of a normal five-speed manual, and as many as eight in the space of an automatic. Waiting through seven gear changes would be agonizing if they were as slow as Toyota's, but Prodrive has managed to shorten the entire shift, from the moment torque is interrupted to the moment you start accelerating again, to an amazing 50 milliseconds. That's so short you barely feel it.

The concept was developed in its WRC Subarus, but now Prodrive is making a push to get the NGT into production cars. It's still a few years off, and there's no word when or where we'll see them first, but if we're lucky, this rally technology will take the place of the your grandmother's slushbox.
And the current WRC box, which you can buy for 60,000 ($108,225) launches, and shifts on it's own, but, as per WRC rule compliance, also allows you to shift it manually should the automatic systems fail.

I wasn't talking about their 5 speed dogbox. That's a step in the opposite direction from a DSG-like box.
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