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Old 06-24-2022, 08:22 AM   #626
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Fortunately they're almost exclusively dealer demos that haven't reached end-use customers yet.
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Old 06-24-2022, 11:10 AM   #627
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Coming in to joke around that TOYOTA builds it.












Joke because it's before they've even made it to retailers. Yes. Subaru has had recall issues the past several years. Just not before the product hit the ground.
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Old 06-24-2022, 12:10 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Fortunately they're almost exclusively dealer demos that haven't reached end-use customers yet.
Have any actually hit end-use customers yet?

Also remember that some dealers decide to sell demo cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Interesting that they decided to use hub bolts instead of lug nuts; I'd assume it's an issue at the factory with torque specs on the assembly line.
There's not really a difference except in how the wheels mount. I've had both over the years, just depends on manufacturer really. (maybe this isn't really a subaru after all? )

If it was just torque specs on the assembly line this wouldn't be a recall and an order to park 'em until Toyota/Subaru research a fix.
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Old 06-24-2022, 12:22 PM   #629
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That's what the article speculated pretty much exactly as you posited. No one knows except Subaru/Toyota and those dealerships. I haven't looked for a forum for owners, but there must be a subreddit or something.

I know people always talk about first model year woes, but my 2013 BRZ and 2017 Impreza were/are fine. My 2011 WRX had big issues. So I don't really worry too much about first model year issues, but this is kind of a big deal.
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Old 06-24-2022, 12:33 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I know people always talk about first model year woes, but my 2013 BRZ and 2017 Impreza were/are fine. My 2011 WRX had big issues. So I don't really worry too much about first model year issues, but this is kind of a big deal.
The first model year warnings seem to be like 50/50... I've had issues with 2nd year cars too. I bought a 2008 mini cooper S... it took them till like 2010 to finally solve a timing chain tensioner issue. I probably could have lemon'd my MCS because it was in the shop 3 times for the timing chain tensioner and it still wasn't the final fix, but got a good enough trade-in that I decided not to. Then I bought a 2009 WRX, but thankfully did enough research to make sure I got a build that was after the crankshaft bearing failures were fixed, others who bought earlier build 2009's had issues.

Fast forward to like 8 months ago when I decided to buy an electric car... Looked at a few EV's. Really liked some of the new ones, like the new VW, but concerns like battery fires and other random recalls is holding me back from buying 1st generation EV's from any manufacturer. Concerned enough to accept fwd. Nissan is proven with the leaf around for over 10 years. I'm looking forward to seeing what other EV's come out, but I'm not only going to skip the first year, I'm likely to skip the first generation. Here's hoping the next VW ID.3 makes it to the US in GTX or R trim...
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:36 AM   #631
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Default First Gen EVs

Iíve watched so many reviews and until the EV infrastructure becomes common place AND I can get 160 mile top up in 5 minutes on a charger while on a road trip, I will pass purchasing an EV. Gas stations are plentiful and I can buy a vehicle of my choice at a much better price then any EV. One day we will look back and wonder why people bought those early EVs.
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:39 AM   #632
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I've watched so many reviews and until the EV infrastructure becomes common place AND I can get 160 mile top up in 5 minutes on a charger while on a road trip, I will pass purchasing an EV. Gas stations are plentiful and I can buy a vehicle of my choice at a much better price then any EV. One day we will look back and wonder why people bought those early EVs.
Spoken like someone who has never owned an EV.

99% of your life is spent commuting to work and charging at home.

Then, you can charge for trips in 10 minutes, just enough time to use the bathroom and eat a sandwich, and continue on your journey. Plus, charging at your end destination.

There's almost zero reason to not get an EV today, unless you just can't afford the price...but then you weren't buying a BMW or Audi either. So, you were never able to afford the price range.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:59 PM   #633
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Spoken like someone who has never owned an EV.

99% of your life is spent commuting to work and charging at home.

Then, you can charge for trips in 10 minutes, just enough time to use the bathroom and eat a sandwich, and continue on your journey. Plus, charging at your end destination.

There's almost zero reason to not get an EV today, unless you just can't afford the price...but then you weren't buying a BMW or Audi either. So, you were never able to afford the price range.
As a sole vehicle, I wouldn't own one for said reason there aren't chargers as plentiful as gas stations. I do head out on a whim sometimes. Is there a viable option for reserve power like a portable gas tank I throw in the back of my Baja for that "just in case"? That's enough of a reason for me not to get one. As a second vehicle to handle the daily work commute? Sure.
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Old 06-27-2022, 12:07 AM   #634
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Spoken like someone who has never owned an EV.

99% of your life is spent commuting to work and charging at home.

Then, you can charge for trips in 10 minutes, just enough time to use the bathroom and eat a sandwich, and continue on your journey. Plus, charging at your end destination.

There's almost zero reason to not get an EV today, unless you just can't afford the price...but then you weren't buying a BMW or Audi either. So, you were never able to afford the price range.
Wrong. As good as your intentions might be, this argument is a perfect example of confinig a perception into a bubble and failing to see that there is a world outside of it. Yes, EVs are excellent for a subset of the population, and as years go by, that subset grows. But..

There are plenty of people living in apartments with on-street parking and no access to at-home chargers. Or commuting to work with no charging available in a parking. There are also plenty of people who live in rural areas, frequently driving to places where no charging infrastructure exists. There are also those who enjoy weekend getaways to campings, parks, cottage houses, lakes, skiing resorts, involving distances well beyond available EV ranges.

There are plenty of reasons NOT to get an EV today, and plenty of people for whom 99% of mileage is not getting to work and back, and without charging-at home. EVs are the future, they continue to get better, but one should never get arrogant to think that they're "better" for everyone. ICE cars will continue to exist for a long time.
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Old 10-06-2022, 09:47 AM   #635
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Solterra production set to resume as the hub issue has been resolved:

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...qv2r5zNndi6_2E
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Old 10-06-2022, 11:18 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Spoken like someone who has never owned an EV.

99% of your life is spent commuting to work and charging at home.

Then, you can charge for trips in 10 minutes, just enough time to use the bathroom and eat a sandwich, and continue on your journey. Plus, charging at your end destination.

There's almost zero reason to not get an EV today, unless you just can't afford the price...but then you weren't buying a BMW or Audi either. So, you were never able to afford the price range.
There is also almost zero reason to buy one. NO reason NOT to own an ICE vehicle either.

You are looking at the world from your singular point of view and coming to a foregone conclusion all your metrics are shared with every single person and equally embraced to the same degree as you. Could not be further from reality.

I have absolutely no desire to own one as they offer absolutely nothing better than an ICE car. Except they have more drawbacks and limitations while costing more.
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Old 10-06-2022, 12:33 PM   #637
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Such a push for EV's, but no push to expand and bolster Electricity Grids/Infrastructure. Its all dated. Seems fine right now, But as the cars become more accessible to the middle class, I expect.. Truly expect them to no longer tell people to avoid using Electricity "During Peak Hours." I expect there to never be another article written about Brown-Outs due to overloaded city grids.

Currently a Solid 80% runs on Oil/Coal and Nuclear. 20% are renewables. Despite these figures, you have cities like in Texas, Telling its citizens not to charge their EVs due to Overloaded Grids.
Tackle the Energy Problem, then you can go ahead and tackle carbon emissions. They don't turn to renewables when there are predicted brown outs.
They still turn to Coal/Natural Gases/Nuclear/Oil, because the systems are already in place to get Energy out to Customers. If they continue to do this as more people begin hooking up to the grid, I suspect Carbon emissions to Not Budge One Inch in the right direction.

Case in point, I can double my Energy bill (here in CA) literally by leaving a lamp turned on every other evening while im in bed. Seriously try it for a month, and look at the difference. The Normal 200-300, Turns into 360-500. Highest ive seen lately was 600 dollars ( had a project for work that required me to stay up late on the computer.) Thats an extra 3-4x of knabbing full-tank refills at the pump, and I literally live 2mi away from work.

On top of that the Strategic Oil Reserve for the US has been getting tapped into, its supposed to sit above 700million barrels. Its currently sitting at 450mill, a 40 Year Low -Forcing the Biden Admin to re-ignite the Keystone XL pipeline he so adamantly shut down when he first got into office to line the Saudi's Pockets (A Bad deal for all US Citizens). So what does that tell you. (Yes oil not just for Cars, but for the Country's Grids). https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=3cfb3b8077c7
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_en...e%20year%20ago.

Im not against EVs.. however, they will continue to sit as a "Novelty Car" until this infrastructure BS is resolved. The Country was literally Energy Independent 2 Years ago. How do you expect any new tech to Flourish if the basis of said tech as a "Normal Avenue of Transportation" can't even be Supported Correctly? Short Answer, It won't.

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Old 10-06-2022, 12:42 PM   #638
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Guys, I was updating the thread on the recall. We get it, you don't like EVs. Reality is, people are living with them and loving it. You don't have to buy in.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:15 PM   #639
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If EV scares you, try PHEV or Hybrid for your daily. I'm not talking fun performance car, I'm taking the one you pound miles on, go to Costco with etc.

The obvious thing EVs/PHEVs/Hybrids do better is use less fossil fuel than their ICE counterparts. According to studies done by people with PHDs in their respective fields, "cradle to grave", EVs/PHEVs/Hybrids have less impact on the environment than ICE vehicles do, even considering the amount of electricity that is currently generated in the US with fossil fuels.

As to driving, the extra low end torque from the electric motor is much appreciated when starting off.

They can be cheaper to own in the long run; in our case the PHEV was
cheaper to buy and will be cheaper to own/operate based on our use case.

If you have solar, you essentially get "free electricity"; the math has to be done to quantify how much of the solar install cost is the burden of the car vs. the burden of the house. In our case, we use 1,000kWh/month on average for house stuff, her PHEV is looking like it's going to use ~365kWh/month @ 11,000 miles annually, an EV for me is estimated at 142kWh/month @ 5,000miles annually, so about 1/3rd the cost of a solar installation for us would be the burden of our vehicles, 2/3rds would be the burden of our house (we'd need a ~14kW system, I'd honestly oversize it since we have net metering & for some overhead, so a 15kW or 20kW system depending on pricing, likely 15kW though).

15kW system is ~28k after incentives in my area, 9,300 of that cost would be the burden of the cars. Assuming a 10yr life for the system, ignoring the net metering revenue, ~$2,800/yr for the Solar system vs. $4,500/yr for electricity at 0.25/kWh.

If we were staying in this house for 10 more years, heck even 8 more years I would have a solar system installed, but we're out of here in 3-5 tops, so it's not worth it, as it doesn't pay itself off until part way thorough year 7.

The advantage of a home solar install is it lessens the burden on the grid, and you obviously don't "pay" for electricity each month after considering the initial cost & payoff timeframe. Obviously, you can minimize the use of fossil fuels in your hose as well, although it may require additional improvements/modifications.

We're only a week into ownership of the PHEV Sorento, but my wife really likes it, and has been commuting to work & back on nearly all EV power; the gas engine kicks in on the highway on-ramp & while getting up to highway speed, and when the cabin needs heat (seat & steering wheel heaters use the battery pack though).

When we picked it up in Queens, the hybrid battery was too low to use EV mode, but once we got home I plugged it into 110v for the following mornings commute.

I only have a few days worth of logging electricity usage, but she is getting about 3.4mi/kWh, I expect that to improve as she adjusts to EV/hybrid driving.

Fuel economy for this first tank will have to be based off the computer estimate, as we got it with somewhere around 3/4 of a tank, but with the drive home from Queens at ~100mi of highway driving in hybrid mode, and her commuting 3 days so far it still has ~1/2 tank of fuel and nearly all of the fuel used was the drive back from Queens (it has a 12.4gal tank). Quick and dirty math says she has burned ~3.1gal of gas over 236 miles so far, now that we're plugging in every night and she is commuting in EV mode I don't expect her to need gas for quite some time even though there is only ~6.2gal in the tank.

She's getting roughly 76mpg, that number will improve as the daily miles get put on, gas is 3.42/gal currently.

She has used 42.5kWh so far, 13.8 of that was the initial charge when we got home, so the numbers will be skewed a bit, but on a normal day she uses ~11kWh, so in electricity at 0.25/kWh we're spending about $2.75 in electricity for her ~37miles of daily driving.

Gas is 3.42/gal currently (87), So a rough blended cost per mile currently is $0.09.

Her corolla averaged 30mpg, so in that same time it would have used ~7.9gallons, and cost $26.91 in fuel vs. the $21.23 we've spent for electricity/fuel combined. Not a great comparison though, as the corolla is a different vehicle altogether and didn't work for her anymore.

A highlander hybrid (which is what we were going to get) averages 35mpg, so over the same driving range would cost us $23.06 in fuel, still more than the PHEV has cost us thus far, even with the initial knocks against its efficiency (needed a full charge right away, initially ran in hybrid mode only for ~100miles). The Highlander Hybrid we spec'd out (Limited, not Platinum) was within a couple hundred dollars of the Sorento PHEV we got (SX-Prestige so top trim w/options), and we will get the Federal tax credit of $6,587 for the PHEV come tax time (not the state one though, MSRP was too high).

A V6 Highlander averages 20mpg, so over the same driving range would cost us $40.37 in fuel, nearly double what the PHEV has cost us.

A V6 Highlander Limited once configured was only going to be ~$750 cheaper than the Sorento PHEV we got, and ~$950 cheaper than a Highlander Hybrid, hence going with the Hybrid initially, but I'm glad we would up with the Sorento PHEV instead; we ended up selling her Corolla for $3,000 more than the dealer was going to give us (thanks Carvana!) and we get the Federal Tax credit. Even considering the extra sales tax we paid by not trading in the Corolla, we will end up spending ~$8,000 less for the Sorento PHEV than we would have for the Highlander Hybrid up front, and ~$7,250 less than we would have for a V6 Highlander.

In our case, it was cheaper to get the PHEV than the ICE or Hybrid equivalent would have been, and obviously operating costs are cheaper than both.

The only three-row EV on the market is the Tesla Model Y, and we wouldn't buy one, even if the $65,990 MSRP didn't make me sick to my stomach.

There are more ICE to hybrid/PHEV comparisons that can be made than Ice/Hybrid/PHEV to EV, simply because there are not a ton of EVs on the market yet.

There is a $4,000 difference between the price of a corolla and a corolla hybrid (20,425 vs 24,050 respectively), but the fuel economy difference is significant at 31/40 vs 53/52; I know the math will work out in favor of the hybrid. Compare those to the Nissan Leaf at 28,040, and it's less clear without actually doing the math. Whether or not the Leaf makes more sense will come down to cost of electricity & gas in your area.

I wanted to get my wife an EV, even though I am Pro-V8 tire smoke machine, I also care about the planet my kids will have to live with, and there is also the financial aspect. An EV did not make sense though, not for our use case; it's her turn to have the family car and we wanted three rows, but the PHEV did make sense.

When EVs hit the market that are cars (wagon or hatch would be ideal), and not six figures or a Tesla, I'll look into them for myself, I don't want a CUV, and I certainly don't need a new car right now, having just bought one three years ago; also the ~36k worth of cash we threw at the Sorento PHEV after considering the sale of our Corolla still stings a bit, we'll get nearly 6k back come tax time, but even then, that is 30k that is no longer in our bank account, but auto loan interest rates are like 4.75% right now, so we decided just to pay it outright.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:18 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Guys, I was updating the thread on the recall. We get it, you don't like EVs. Reality is, people are living with them and loving it. You don't have to buy in.
I love that it took them 4mo to figure out and release a fix that involved needing better lugs lol.
I actually like EV's, I don't like how dated the infrastructure is, because unless solved, it will Affect even those who don't own EV's, financially. Whether they enjoy the car or not is of no concern of mine, I understand you though friend. No one has the right to rip on others for their buying choices
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:22 PM   #641
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Guys, I was updating the thread on the recall. We get it, you don't like EVs. Reality is, people are living with them and loving it. You don't have to buy in.
I hear you so back on the topic at hand. Now that they have a remedy, brand new solterras should be assembled with the remedy already in place. US solterra deliveries are at holding yards waiting for the remedy to be performed. They are all grouped together at the yards so they should be able to do the remedies on mass before they put them on trucks or trains for delivery to their final destinations.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:46 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
If EV scares you, try PHEV or Hybrid for your daily. I'm not talking fun performance car, I'm taking the one you pound miles on, go to Costco with etc.

The obvious thing EVs/PHEVs/Hybrids do better is use less fossil fuel than their ICE counterparts. According to studies done by people with PHDs in their respective fields, "cradle to grave", EVs/PHEVs/Hybrids have less impact on the environment than ICE vehicles do, even considering the amount of electricity that is currently generated in the US with fossil fuels.

As to driving, the extra low end torque from the electric motor is much appreciated when starting off.

They can be cheaper to own in the long run; in our case the PHEV was
cheaper to buy and will be cheaper to own/operate based on our use case.

If you have solar, you essentially get "free electricity"; the math has to be done to quantify how much of the solar install cost is the burden of the car vs. the burden of the house. In our case, we use 1,000kWh/month on average for house stuff, her PHEV is looking like it's going to use ~365kWh/month @ 11,000 miles annually, an EV for me is estimated at 142kWh/month @ 5,000miles annually, so about 1/3rd the cost of a solar installation for us would be the burden of our vehicles, 2/3rds would be the burden of our house (we'd need a ~14kW system, I'd honestly oversize it since we have net metering & for some overhead, so a 15kW or 20kW system depending on pricing, likely 15kW though).

15kW system is ~28k after incentives in my area, 9,300 of that cost would be the burden of the cars. Assuming a 10yr life for the system, ignoring the net metering revenue, ~$2,800/yr for the Solar system vs. $4,500/yr for electricity at 0.25/kWh.

If we were staying in this house for 10 more years, heck even 8 more years I would have a solar system installed, but we're out of here in 3-5 tops, so it's not worth it, as it doesn't pay itself off until part way thorough year 7.

The advantage of a home solar install is it lessens the burden on the grid, and you obviously don't "pay" for electricity each month after considering the initial cost & payoff timeframe. Obviously, you can minimize the use of fossil fuels in your hose as well, although it may require additional improvements/modifications.

We're only a week into ownership of the PHEV Sorento, but my wife really likes it, and has been commuting to work & back on nearly all EV power; the gas engine kicks in on the highway on-ramp & while getting up to highway speed, and when the cabin needs heat (seat & steering wheel heaters use the battery pack though).

When we picked it up in Queens, the hybrid battery was too low to use EV mode, but once we got home I plugged it into 110v for the following mornings commute.

I only have a few days worth of logging electricity usage, but she is getting about 3.4mi/kWh, I expect that to improve as she adjusts to EV/hybrid driving.

Fuel economy for this first tank will have to be based off the computer estimate, as we got it with somewhere around 3/4 of a tank, but with the drive home from Queens at ~100mi of highway driving in hybrid mode, and her commuting 3 days so far it still has ~1/2 tank of fuel and nearly all of the fuel used was the drive back from Queens (it has a 12.4gal tank). Quick and dirty math says she has burned ~3.1gal of gas over 236 miles so far, now that we're plugging in every night and she is commuting in EV mode I don't expect her to need gas for quite some time even though there is only ~6.2gal in the tank.

She's getting roughly 76mpg, that number will improve as the daily miles get put on, gas is 3.42/gal currently.

She has used 42.5kWh so far, 13.8 of that was the initial charge when we got home, so the numbers will be skewed a bit, but on a normal day she uses ~11kWh, so in electricity at 0.25/kWh we're spending about $2.75 in electricity for her ~37miles of daily driving.

Gas is 3.42/gal currently (87), So a rough blended cost per mile currently is $0.09.

Her corolla averaged 30mpg, so in that same time it would have used ~7.9gallons, and cost $26.91 in fuel vs. the $21.23 we've spent for electricity/fuel combined. Not a great comparison though, as the corolla is a different vehicle altogether and didn't work for her anymore.

A highlander hybrid (which is what we were going to get) averages 35mpg, so over the same driving range would cost us $23.06 in fuel, still more than the PHEV has cost us thus far, even with the initial knocks against its efficiency (needed a full charge right away, initially ran in hybrid mode only for ~100miles). The Highlander Hybrid we spec'd out (Limited, not Platinum) was within a couple hundred dollars of the Sorento PHEV we got (SX-Prestige so top trim w/options), and we will get the Federal tax credit of $6,587 for the PHEV come tax time (not the state one though, MSRP was too high).

A V6 Highlander averages 20mpg, so over the same driving range would cost us $40.37 in fuel, nearly double what the PHEV has cost us.

A V6 Highlander Limited once configured was only going to be ~$750 cheaper than the Sorento PHEV we got, and ~$950 cheaper than a Highlander Hybrid, hence going with the Hybrid initially, but I'm glad we would up with the Sorento PHEV instead; we ended up selling her Corolla for $3,000 more than the dealer was going to give us (thanks Carvana!) and we get the Federal Tax credit. Even considering the extra sales tax we paid by not trading in the Corolla, we will end up spending ~$8,000 less for the Sorento PHEV than we would have for the Highlander Hybrid up front, and ~$7,250 less than we would have for a V6 Highlander.

In our case, it was cheaper to get the PHEV than the ICE or Hybrid equivalent would have been, and obviously operating costs are cheaper than both.

The only three-row EV on the market is the Tesla Model Y, and we wouldn't buy one, even if the $65,990 MSRP didn't make me sick to my stomach.

There are more ICE to hybrid/PHEV comparisons that can be made than Ice/Hybrid/PHEV to EV, simply because there are not a ton of EVs on the market yet.

There is a $4,000 difference between the price of a corolla and a corolla hybrid (20,425 vs 24,050 respectively), but the fuel economy difference is significant at 31/40 vs 53/52; I know the math will work out in favor of the hybrid. Compare those to the Nissan Leaf at 28,040, and it's less clear without actually doing the math. Whether or not the Leaf makes more sense will come down to cost of electricity & gas in your area.

I wanted to get my wife an EV, even though I am Pro-V8 tire smoke machine, I also care about the planet my kids will have to live with, and there is also the financial aspect. An EV did not make sense though, not for our use case; it's her turn to have the family car and we wanted three rows, but the PHEV did make sense.

When EVs hit the market that are cars (wagon or hatch would be ideal), and not six figures or a Tesla, I'll look into them for myself, I don't want a CUV, and I certainly don't need a new car right now, having just bought one three years ago; also the ~36k worth of cash we threw at the Sorento PHEV after considering the sale of our Corolla still stings a bit, we'll get nearly 6k back come tax time, but even then, that is 30k that is no longer in our bank account, but auto loan interest rates are like 4.75% right now, so we decided just to pay it outright.
I think EV's are great for those that will save money having one, doesn't mean its necessarily great infrastructure wise (Currently -> Can be solved).

Don't forget to factor in How much fossil fuels were burned in the extraction, transportation, and allocation of said lithium via Diesel Earthmover's/Drills, 2 Story Diesel dump trucks, 18 Wheelers, and Sea Ships (Also run on Fossil Fuels). Lets also not forget about the now scarred landscape of where the mines sit at (Just a fat hole left in the ground that can be seen from space), where nothing will grow for 100 years plus do to the toxicity of the extracted lithium in the landscape. Or that we are sending Spent batteries to Africa where they sit in the landscape and are processed "As needed" while being a danger to the environment. (Not saying these factors can't be solved.)

Another problem is that the people that can have solar, don't have solar. Great incentives for sure, but people are pretty slow to the partaking of them. (Definitely another thing that can be solved).
All of these specific things can be solved, its just the way they're going about it. Its like Pushing 8K Tvs onto the market when no streaming service or gaming system even broadcasts/Utilizes 8K. Or if Elon told everyone to start buying his phones before the starlink satellites were even in the sky. The product should at the very least come secondary to the Background Support of the venture.
But I hear you brother.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:54 PM   #643
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The Country was literally Energy Independent 2 Years ago.
If you believe that line, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

in 2020 the US was a net exporter of petroleum products, meaning, we exported more petroleum than we imported. Do you want to know what the main reason our imports dropped significantly for 2020? COVID. People weren't driving. The last time the US was a net exporter of petroleum products was in 1949.

Net Exporter does not equal Energy independent, it just means we sold more petroleum than we bought; we were still dependent on and affected by the global market.

Petroleum is not the only source of energy, in 2020 we imported 57TWh of electricity from Canada, and we have been importing an average of 50TWh from Canada since the 1980's. We export, on average, 12TWh of electricity. 1TWh = 1billion kWh, that means, on average the US has a net import of 38TWh or 38Billion kWh of electricity annually and has since the 1980's.

We are heavily dependent on Canada for electricity, and have been since the 1950's.

Grand Gulf in Mississippi is the highest output nuclear plant in the US, in 2021 it had an output of 11,804GWh, or 11.804TWh; we'd need to build 4 more nuclear plants of that scale to cover the electricity imported from Canada alone, which accounts for 90% of of electricity imports, so call it 5 additional nuclear plants of that scale to cover all of our electricity needs.

Note: Three plants of this scale are planned to start construction in 2023, and be operational by 2028.
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Old 10-06-2022, 01:56 PM   #644
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Don't forget to factor in How much fossil fuels were burned in the extraction, transportation, and allocation of said lithium via Diesel Earthmover's/Drills, 2 Story Diesel dump trucks, 18 Wheelers, and Sea Ships (Also run on Fossil Fuels). Lets also not forget about the now scarred landscape of where the mines sit at (Just a fat hole left in the ground that can be seen from space), where nothing will grow for 100 years plus do to the toxicity of the extracted lithium in the landscape. Or that we are sending Spent batteries to Africa where they sit in the landscape and are processed "As needed" while being a danger to the environment. (Not saying these factors can't be solved.)
This has been accounted for; you missed the "cradle to grave" part of my statement back there, understandable, it was a long one.
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Old 10-06-2022, 02:06 PM   #645
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If you believe that line, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

in 2020 the US was a net exporter of petroleum products, meaning, we exported more petroleum than we imported. Do you want to know what the main reason our imports dropped significantly for 2020? COVID. People weren't driving. The last time the US was a net exporter of petroleum products was in 1949.

Net Exporter does not equal Energy independent, it just means we sold more petroleum than we bought; we were still dependent on and affected by the global market.

Petroleum is not the only source of energy, in 2020 we imported 57TWh of electricity from Canada, and we have been importing an average of 50TWh from Canada since the 1980's. We export, on average, 12TWh of electricity. 1TWh = 1billion kWh, that means, on average the US has a net import of 38TWh or 38Billion kWh of electricity annually and has since the 1980's.

We are heavily dependent on Canada for electricity, and have been since the 1950's.

Grand Gulf in Mississippi is the highest output nuclear plant in the US, in 2021 it had an output of 11,804GWh, or 11.804TWh; we'd need to build 4 more nuclear plants of that scale to cover the electricity imported from Canada alone, which accounts for 90% of of electricity imports, so call it 5 additional nuclear plants of that scale to cover all of our electricity needs.

Note: Three plants of this scale are planned to start construction in 2023, and be operational by 2028.
And to add to that, we still experienced brown-outs and increased energy costs even when oil prices were low, So we were "more oil independent from OPEC" due to the Shut Down, keystone, and the factors you mentioned, yet were still needing more energy outsourced from nearby countries. The terms "peak hour usage" shouldn't even be a thing if we are planning on converting transportation to Electric, you know what I mean? Thats more or less what I was pointing to as a problem.
Good news for those plants to be built, In all honesty they should have figured this as far back as 2012. Hopefully these next 10-20 years will serve as a building period to restore strong energy output, because if not.. your wallet, my wallet, the people who rent and can't install solar (majority) and have no where to charge a EV let alone have one, are ****ed.

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Old 10-06-2022, 02:26 PM   #646
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And to add to that, we still experienced brown-outs and increased energy costs even when oil prices were low, So we were "more oil independent from OPEC" due to the Shut Down, keystone, and the factors you mentioned, yet were still needing more energy outsourced from nearby countries. The terms "peak hour usage" shouldn't even be a thing if we are planning on converting transportation to Electric, you know what I mean? Thats more or less what I was pointing to as a problem.
Good news for those plants to be built, In all honesty they should have figured this as far back as 2012. Hopefully these next 10-20 years will serve as a building period to restore strong energy output, because if not.. your wallet, my wallet, the people who rent and can't install solar (majority) and have no where to charge a EV let alone have one, are ****ed.
The California (and Texas) grid problems are not the fault of the end users, they are the fault of the utility companies that have been making record profits year after year, while barely maintaining the grid and not making improvements to the grid.

The states where utilities have been deregulated have the most frequent issues, because the utility is no longer about getting electricity to the people, it's about maximizing profit on the sale of electricity.

It's been discussed previously, but, the brown outs in California are due to peak demand through AC systems (and a craptastic grid, see above); electric cars are a drop in the proverbial bucket, not to mention most charge "off-peak" anyways, which helps to balance demand on the grid.
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Old 10-06-2022, 02:36 PM   #647
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.... US solterra deliveries are at holding yards waiting for the remedy to be performed. They are all grouped together at the yards so they should be able to do the remedies on mass before they put them on trucks or trains for delivery to their final destinations.
Yup, i'd guesstimate 180-200 of them sitting down in the yard at Quonsett....
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Old 10-06-2022, 03:10 PM   #648
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This has been accounted for; you missed the "cradle to grave" part of my statement back there, understandable, it was a long one.
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
It's been discussed previously, but, the brown outs in California are due to peak demand through AC systems (and a craptastic grid, see above); electric cars are a drop in the proverbial bucket, not to mention most charge "off-peak" anyways, which helps to balance demand on the grid.
It's like talking to a brick wall. They repeat the same ol' talking points that get their echo chamber riled up and refuse to listen to the actual facts of the situation...
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Old 10-06-2022, 03:20 PM   #649
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I love that it took them 4mo to figure out and release a fix that involved needing better lugs lol.
I actually like EV's, I don't like how dated the infrastructure is, because unless solved, it will Affect even those who don't own EV's, financially. Whether they enjoy the car or not is of no concern of mine, I understand you though friend. No one has the right to rip on others for their buying choices
Seems to be a combination of lug bolt and the rims. So the fix is a new lug bolt with a washer and an updated rim. Not sure if that changes the look of the rims, or just the lug area (conical, flat, etc).

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I hear you so back on the topic at hand. Now that they have a remedy, brand new solterras should be assembled with the remedy already in place. US solterra deliveries are at holding yards waiting for the remedy to be performed. They are all grouped together at the yards so they should be able to do the remedies on mass before they put them on trucks or trains for delivery to their final destinations.
Retail production has not started, IIRC. Those are dealer demos. Of course they need to be fixed.

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Yup, i'd guesstimate 180-200 of them sitting down in the yard at Quonsett....
Yea, they need to be fixed.
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Old 10-06-2022, 03:47 PM   #650
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The California (and Texas) grid problems are not the fault of the end users, they are the fault of the utility companies that have been making record profits year after year, while barely maintaining the grid and not making improvements to the grid.

The states where utilities have been deregulated have the most frequent issues, because the utility is no longer about getting electricity to the people, it's about maximizing profit on the sale of electricity.

It's been discussed previously, but, the brown outs in California are due to peak demand through AC systems (and a craptastic grid, see above); electric cars are a drop in the proverbial bucket, not to mention most charge "off-peak" anyways, which helps to balance demand on the grid.
So if that be the case, then there needs a red-right-hand casted onto the energy companies like PG@E so that they can't take advantage of the situation, pretty much eliminating the whole "Peak hour" issue to begin with. Then there would be no problem. I cannot think of a easier way for energy companies to use newly available transportation tech to extort their customers. My concern is with people and their ability to make it monthly without being homeless. Rent and house interest rates are already a pretty severe problem here in the state. So as you say, hopefully we will see the CA Govt do something about getting more power out, otherwise its gonna continue to hurt.
I was a solar Salesman, in the Sacramento Area, Freedom Solar, We sourced Canadian Panels, some of the best most efficient designs available on the market today. Electricity rates in the last 10-15years have been a steady increase for the customers I have sold to. Now yes its from increased demand, but no increase on the energy companies side to handle cost effectively. I know the state taxes PG@E pretty hard, but I do think there is a specific reason (idk what it is) as to why the linemen are not able to get out to the entire grid for fire danger reasons (And of course we all saw the result of that). Im not super aware, but im pretty aware of the current CA Energy procedures of the state. We will see if PG@E can pull something out of their ***. (Honestly hope they do, Hope the CA Gov't "does something ->Willing to bet more or less, they won't.)
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