Next Gen STI Canceled

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Maybe you'd give a heads up on that trip and not "sneak" through!

I'm sorry, but, who are you again??

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[Frank A]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I get 225 miles in my leaf. That's not far off from most of the other cars out there, better than the base model Ioniq5. Even 300 miles is still regional commuter in my eyes. I have taken my car to the limit, came home from a round trip with single digit % left. It was still within the "region" (basically Everett to Olympia, if you care to look at that on a map). I'm full into EV, but we do not have the infrastructure to support anything but regional commuting for average consumers. Sure, some people will go to the lengths of mapping out a drive with planned charge stops, but even as an EV supporter, I'm not there, and neither is the general public. There are not enough charge stations for that to happen, and it's going to take generations for there to be enough. EV is still in its infancy and manufacturers should be embracing the limitations, not trying to break them. But hey, consumers want crossovers and they can charge a premium for them, so more power to 'em, it's more money in the shareholders pocket.

As a Tesla 3 former owner and now model Y owner, each with 300+ mile range, I cannot agree that the infrastructure is not there yet. We drove our 3 from DC to Utah and had no trouble charging. Availability and proximity of charging stations is easy if you own a Tesla, maybe not for other makes. But the REAL problem with electrics is the charge time. What is normally a ~25 hour drive in a gas car was a ~37 hour drive in the Tesla due to the charging times. I tell everyone that electrics, especially our Teslas, are the greatest commuting cars I've even driven. Never stop at a gas station, every trip starts with a full tank of gas, the torque is instant-on all the time, and even LR AWD Tesla's have about 400 hp so the thing is quicker than a stage 2 STI. There's a bunch of other pros and some cons, but the car is a hands down replacement for anything other than my long range travel truck/tow vehicle and track cars. And please stop whining about the cost. Yes, it's 52k up front (~44k with the current credit) but you get a car with most of the options you could want, virtually no service for at least 5 years, no time spent in gas stations or touching gasoline, no oil changes or dealer visits, and the cost equivalent to 100 mpg (ok, ~60 mpg if your electric is super expensive or you rely on Tesla chargers a lot). The real cost of the car is under 40k for a 400 hp car with quick ratio steering, pretty good handling, super quiet ride. Where can you get that with gas?? It's not even a comparison anymore EXCEPT for long trips.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Frank A

As a Tesla 3 former owner and now model Y owner, each with 300+ mile range, I cannot agree that the infrastructure is not there yet. We drove our 3 from DC to Utah and had no trouble charging. Availability and proximity of charging stations is easy if you own a Tesla, maybe not for other makes. But the REAL problem with electrics is the charge time. What is normally a ~25 hour drive in a gas car was a ~37 hour drive in the Tesla due to the charging times. I tell everyone that electrics, especially our Teslas, are the greatest commuting cars I've even driven. Never stop at a gas station, every trip starts with a full tank of gas, the torque is instant-on all the time, and even LR AWD Tesla's have about 400 hp so the thing is quicker than a stage 2 STI. There's a bunch of other pros and some cons, but the car is a hands down replacement for anything other than my long range travel truck/tow vehicle and track cars. And please stop whining about the cost. Yes, it's 52k up front (~44k with the current credit) but you get a car with most of the options you could want, virtually no service for at least 5 years, no time spent in gas stations or touching gasoline, no oil changes or dealer visits, and the cost equivalent to 100 mpg (ok, ~60 mpg if your electric is super expensive or you rely on Tesla chargers a lot). The real cost of the car is under 40k for a 400 hp car with quick ratio steering, pretty good handling, super quiet ride. Where can you get that with gas?? It's not even a comparison anymore EXCEPT for long trips.

nothing you said is really in conflict with what I said, so not sure why you're attacking me... I don't want only EV cars because it sucks for road trips, which I do multiple times a year. But I'm more than happy with my EV commuter... I don't need an STI beating EV when 95% of the time I drive it I'm stuck in rush hour traffic. It's unnecessary money, but feel free to justify your purchase however you have to. I've already done my math and bought the EV that makes sense for me and my family, and it seems like you have too. I'd much rather have a boring and cheaper EV and spend that saved money on a more fun sports car, which I plan on doing within the year.

You also don't live in the pacific northwest where EV sales are extremely high and the current charging network is inadequate. You've seen the lineups at Tesla charging stations in California, right? Happens here too. You just happen to live in an area where EV isn't quite as prevalent. I recall seeing an article a little while back, can't find it now, that stated new car registrations in Seattle were 30% EV's in one particular month... they're selling like crazy this city.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by dwf137

nothing you said is really in conflict with what I said,

"I'm full into EV, but we do not have the infrastructure to support anything but regional commuting for average consumers. Sure, some people will go to the lengths of mapping out a drive with planned charge stops, but even as an EV supporter, I'm not there, and neither is the general public. There are not enough charge stations for that to happen, and it's going to take generations for there to be enough. EV is still in its infancy and manufacturers should be embracing the limitations, not trying to break them. "

Not trying to be too harsh, just don't agree with the statement that the charging network isn't there yet to just get in the car and go on a trip, nor do I agree that it will take generations. I think we're less than 10 years from majority EV adoption. Yes, on the west coast and in a few areas near urban centers the charging network is lagging behind the vehicle sales but not by leaps and bounds and as soon as you get away from the coast the network is plentiful. We also took the model 3 from DC to the Outer Banks last year, and a couple trips to NY and didn't even bother to check a map before we left. In the midwest the stations are less than 100 miles apart on all the interstates we drove so you could choose to stop at either of 2 stations most of the time, if not 3. Yes, some of the stations are in stupid locations, and yes, they need to build more to keep pace with the vehicle sales, but that's a problem I think is being solved as we speak. If Tesla actually unlocks their whole network they will have the driver to double the footprint of most of their stations and they've already demonstrated they can build 1000+ stations per year.

[chanomatik]

Definitely not less than 10 years from "majority" EV adoption.

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[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Definitely not less than 10 years from "majority" EV adoption.

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Probably no where near majority ownership (of all cars in the US), but we are getting closer and closer to all-new cars being mostly EV. Most OEMs are saying that their new platforms etc will be EV only, or EV-primary.

The Model Y seems to be on pace to be the best selling "passenger car," not just SUV, in the US (and I assume that does not include pickups). It is already the top seller in China.

The Model Y was the #1 selling SUV in the US 1Q23. The Tesla Model 3 was the #2 selling Sedan in the US 1Q23 (losing to Toyota Camry by about 3k cars).

https://electrek.co/2023/04/18/elon-...on-comes-true/
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-u...ures-by-model/
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-u...ures-by-model/

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Not trying to be too harsh, just don't agree with the statement that the charging network isn't there yet to just get in the car and go on a trip, nor do I agree that it will take generations. I think we're less than 10 years from majority EV adoption.

We're definitely more than 10 years away from majority EV adoption.

The other piece about the charging infrastructure, as you have mentioned, is the added drive time for road trips. That's an inconvenience that not everyone is up for. Sounds like you're cool with it, but I'm not. The tech needs to move along more for widespread acceptance. For me and most people I know, EV's are cool as 1 car in a 2 car stable. Got your EV for stuff where you don't need to charge on the go, and an ICE when you go further out.

I thought the idea of standardized batteries that can be swapped in and out faster than you could fill up a gas tank was great, but that's dead at this point, nobody is or wants to make standardized batteries, or ones that are packaged in a way that they're easily removable. But if you could lease a battery, and maybe you usually charge at home but if you're on a road trip you could pull in and swap out for a fully charged one in 5 mins, that'd be convenient...

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

We're definitely more than 10 years away from majority EV adoption.

The other piece about the charging infrastructure, as you have mentioned, is the added drive time for road trips. That's an inconvenience that not everyone is up for. Sounds like you're cool with it, but I'm not. The tech needs to move along more for widespread acceptance. For me and most people I know, EV's are cool as 1 car in a 2 car stable. Got your EV for stuff where you don't need to charge on the go, and an ICE when you go further out.

I thought the idea of standardized batteries that can be swapped in and out faster than you could fill up a gas tank was great, but that's dead at this point, nobody is or wants to make standardized batteries, or ones that are packaged in a way that they're easily removable. But if you could lease a battery, and maybe you usually charge at home but if you're on a road trip you could pull in and swap out for a fully charged one in 5 mins, that'd be convenient...

Stopping for 15-30 minutes on a road trip every 2+ hours is basically a bathroom and lunch stop. I've stopped and been told by my car it's done charging before I finished a sandwich. If you are going very far, and you have to stop overnight, you can either fast charge before you go to bed, or slow charge at the hotel overnight.

Unless you have a car with terrible range, or terribly slow charging, or a charge port that is no longer supported, you can go on most normal family trips without issue. Drive to Alaska, maybe it gets dicey along the way. Drive in the contiguous US, and not into the middle of no where, and you fine. Drive down to Disney World with little to no effort.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Stopping for 15-30 minutes on a road trip every 2+ hours is basically a bathroom and lunch stop. I've stopped and been told by my car it's done charging before I finished a sandwich. If you are going very far, and you have to stop overnight, you can either fast charge before you go to bed, or slow charge at the hotel overnight.

Unless you have a car with terrible range, or terribly slow charging, or a charge port that is no longer supported, you can go on most normal family trips without issue. Drive to Alaska, maybe it gets dicey along the way. Drive in the contiguous US, and not into the middle of no where, and you fine. Drive down to Disney World with little to no effort.

Straight up, it's a compromise that I'm just not willing to make. Heard all the arguments. Read all the things, it's not new to me. Coming from someone who fully supports EV, road trips in an EV just aren't for me. Maybe we'll get there some day, but we're not there yet. And good luck convincing ICE diehards if you can't convince EV supporters...

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by dwf137

We're definitely more than 10 years away from majority EV adoption.

The other piece about the charging infrastructure, as you have mentioned, is the added drive time for road trips. That's an inconvenience that not everyone is up for. Sounds like you're cool with it, but I'm not. The tech needs to move along more for widespread acceptance. For me and most people I know, EV's are cool as 1 car in a 2 car stable. Got your EV for stuff where you don't need to charge on the go, and an ICE when you go further out.

I thought the idea of standardized batteries that can be swapped in and out faster than you could fill up a gas tank was great, but that's dead at this point, nobody is or wants to make standardized batteries, or ones that are packaged in a way that they're easily removable. But if you could lease a battery, and maybe you usually charge at home but if you're on a road trip you could pull in and swap out for a fully charged one in 5 mins, that'd be convenient...

Totally agree that the charging time is a big problem, electric cars are not there yet for longer trips, and yes, I see the Tesla as car 1 of a 2 car garage. China does have a large network of battery swap stations, over 1000 locations owned by NIO plus possibly others, so we can watch how that develops there. I wish Tesla or others would accept "charge while you drive" so I can start a business renting "battery travel trailers". When you go on a road trip and stop you could be charging at twice the effective rate and drive twice the distance between charges.

People don't realize that even with a 300+ mile Tesla, when you are driving west across Oklahoma in the winter you are only getting about 120 miles between charges because of 1) drag at 75+ mph, 2) cold, 3) headwinds, 4) climate control, and 5) 80% max charge before slow charging. Like I said, a 25 hour trip took 37.

When I bought the car I was thinking like Snow Drift- start with a full charge, charge again at lunch, then again at an early dinner, then once more and drive to hotel and charge to 100%, but it doesn't work that way. In practice you charge about 5 times during the day, adding 2 extra stops to that schedule. It's great for stretching your back and you arrive refreshed and relaxed, but it wasted a whole day each way.

Given how far behind everyone else Subaru is they could probably play to their granola customer base by being the first to offer travel trailers and charge while you drive. You could take 200 mile technology and bump it up to 600 or so.

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

You quoted me saying "so far, we received a product that shows they are unaware of the current technology/user experience expected by consumers. We need to see that they get it." My statement is literally about the shortcomings of the Solterra.

Fckn' hillarious!11. your probably one of the "enthusiasts" that bitchec and moaned for Subaru to get rid of the outdated EJ for the last 5 years, bring a direct injected twin scroll turbo update to replace it, and when they did just THAT in the new WRX, you complained about the black fender flares lol..

then probably bitched when Subaru zxed the STI and said they were going electric, but wanted another 10 years of flat 4 tufbk

now your complaining that their premiere EV MODEL is inadequate lmfao....and that they should be making better EV's.....?

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

You quoted me saying "so far, we received a product that shows they are unaware of the current technology/user experience expected by consumers. We need to see that they get it." My statement is literally about the shortcomings of the Solterra.

Fckn' hillarious! your probably one of the "enthusiasts" that bitched and moaned for Subaru to get rid of the outdated EJ for the last 5 years, bring an equal displacement direct injected twin scroll turbo update to replace it in the lineup and when they did just THAT in the new WRX, you probably complained about the black fender flares lol..

then probably bitched when Subaru axed the STI and said they were going electric, and want another 10 years of flat 4 turbos

now your complaining that their premiere EV MODEL is inadequate lmfao....and that they should be making better EV's.....?

I don't know what you want!! Ha ha ha h ha ha!

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

I find it pretty funny your last few posts make it sound like you’re actually rooting for an electric sti and you seem ok with the disgusting “ste” model designation or whatever that is.

An electric STI is going to be phenomenal, but you will find something to complain about regardless.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

Fckn' hillarious! your probably one of the "enthusiasts" that bitched and moaned for Subaru to get rid of the outdated EJ for the last 5 years, bring an equal displacement direct injected twin scroll turbo update to replace it in the lineup and when they did just THAT in the new WRX, you probably complained about the black fender flares lol..

then probably bitched when Subaru axed the STI and said they were going electric, and want another 10 years of flat 4 turbos

now your complaining that their premiere EV MODEL is inadequate lmfao....and that they should be making better EV's.....?

I don't know what you want!! Ha ha ha h ha ha!

Well for starters he wants a WRX that is not a ugly if not uglier than a Pontiac Aztek. I mean that is not a huge ask, but the failed to deliver it.

Elontra N completely makes the WRX look old and matronly now. It is on its way out.

[Russ_G93]

I like the EV's, they ride so comfortably and are quick (Takes the fun out of the Rev noises). But predominantly, if you aren't in a house, then it really isn't for you. Definitely need a charging spot in order to have one. I'd be worried about some f*** messing with my charger and car if it was some kind of parking structure with no security or street-side charging.

My only gripe is that you can't reach net zero with EVs.. still have to use Earth movers burning tens of thousands of gallons of diesel to collect the cobalt/lithium (That is like mixed in with tons and tons of dirt, then you gotta use 100's of thousands of gallons of water for the mining process. Then you gotta ship them b*tches across the see on diesel rigs. Process is just a mess. Car isn't, but the development process is. Also, I do agree that predominantly the average owner will not experience Electricity fluctuations in having an EV, but it is an "Added Load" to the power grid as a whole. So oil is used immensely to create the car "an Added Production Load", and then we're stuck with the added "burning coal/whatever else" for the grid, to satiate the incoming EV owners.

Like I said, the car isn't the problem, but it seems like everything else is. Seems like only well off people can have them (Home-owners), and we're still burning the candlestick at both ends as far as Oil/Coal/Gas. I just thought that if a quick environmental change was the premise, I thought you would see more alternative fuels being developed for combustion engines; but I digress.

[Russ_G93]

Double-stuffed... oreos..

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

a charge port that is no longer supported

I'm sorry, what?

if I ever needed proof that the technology isn't ready for reality, this here, that's it.

I should never have to worry that my car is going to be made obsolete by some technology update that is forced into the system by companies lobbying the government that the infrastructure needs to be better to accommodate new tech.

here I am worried that the worst thing I have to worry about is that it'll take 20-30 minutes to charge enough to get me 180-200 miles of driving. presuming of course someone doesn't pull into the spot ahead of me (making my 20-30 minute charge a 40-60 minute charge). presuming also the spot isn't being ICE'd, presuming also that just because the charge point is alive enough to ping back to the mainframe and say it's 'up' and available, maybe the CC reader is busted, maybe the screen it turned off, maybe someone harvested the cable for copper.

really, I should be worried about whether a car I buy today will be forced into obsolescence at some arbitrary time in the future.

JFC dude.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by samagon

I'm sorry, what?

if I ever needed proof that the technology isn't ready for reality, this here, that's it.

I mean, that's the reality of electronics. On a totally different scale, but how many different chargers have you had for a phone over the years?

But he's mostly taking a dig at my car which has a chademo charge port as the level 3 charge port. Chademo was a Japanese developed plug that was developed back in the 90's. Then in 2013 the EU decided to make the CCS plug their standard, making the chademo plug fall out of favor with manufacturers. And then there's Tesla who just do their own thing and don't follow any industry standard. But most modern EV's all have CCS, so not something you'd need to worry about. It's really just the Leaf that's stuck with the chademo port. Nissan's new EV, the Ariya or whatever, switched to CCS, so the chademo will eventually die. I knew this going into it...

But most cars can still use the J1772 plug, which gives level 2 charging. Not as fast, but still works just fine. L3 charging is generally not great for battery longevity anyway, so I don't care that the network of L3 charge ports is limited for me. I could stop at just about any Nissan dealer and use their chademo ports if I really needed to fill up quickly. They're rarely being used. But that wasn't my intent with purchasing this car. I have yet to use a L3 charger with my vehicle, I charge with L2 at both work and at home, and the very few free public charging stations that I've come across (local grocery store has one so we use it whenever the spots open and we're shopping).

[samagon]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I mean, that's the reality of electronics. On a totally different scale, but how many different chargers have you had for a phone over the years?

that's exactly what I'm thinking about, and what I was thinking about as I was responding.

but two problems there, the primary USB standard plug design hasn't changed since it was introduced. meaning, if I have a mouse from 2001 that says USB, I can plug it into a USB 3.0 port on my computer, and if the hardware still works, I can use it.

same with a phone I might have gotten in 2007 that used the USB mini (or micro, I can never remember which is the one that dropped out of favor) plug, so long as I still have a cable that will attach to the phone, the USB outlet will still function to charge, and even pass data, should that be a thing.

and it's not like a $50 peripheral, or even a $1000 phone are comparable to a minimum $30,000 car.

if I look back at the age of cars when I drove them, 3 were over 20 years, 2 were over 10 years, and the rest were all varying ages under 10 years. never did I worry about whether my car would be compatible with any given gas pump when I pulled up.

Originally Posted by dwf137

But he's mostly taking a dig at my car which has a chademo charge port as the level 3 charge port. Chademo was a Japanese developed plug that was developed back in the 90's. Then in 2013 the EU decided to make the CCS plug their standard, making the chademo plug fall out of favor with manufacturers. And then there's Tesla who just do their own thing and don't follow any industry standard. But most modern EV's all have CCS, so not something you'd need to worry about. It's really just the Leaf that's stuck with the chademo port. Nissan's new EV, the Ariya or whatever, switched to CCS, so the chademo will eventually die. I knew this going into it...

But most cars can still use the J1772 plug, which gives level 2 charging. Not as fast, but still works just fine. L3 charging is generally not great for battery longevity anyway, so I don't care that the network of L3 charge ports is limited for me. I could stop at just about any Nissan dealer and use their chademo ports if I really needed to fill up quickly. They're rarely being used. But that wasn't my intent with purchasing this car. I have yet to use a L3 charger with my vehicle, I charge with L2 at both work and at home, and the very few free public charging stations that I've come across (local grocery store has one so we use it whenever the spots open and we're shopping).

well, that's heartening that there are blocs that have agreed upon a unique technology, let's hope that the lobbyists for companies that want to sell things don't get the rules changed so they can sell more ****.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by samagon

well, that's heartening that there are blocs that have agreed upon a unique technology, let's hope that the lobbyists for companies that want to sell things don't get the rules changed so they can sell more ****.

I think CCS can go up to 1000 volts, and I think the highest voltage ev I've seen can take 800 volts. So there's still some room. But I think it's inevitable that technology will change eventually and something new will be needed. The key is them maintaining backwards compatibility, or making a converter. Tesla has a converter to go from their plug to CCS, so it's not unheard of... Nothing to go from Chademo to CCS though as the signaling is different.

[bugatti0628]

As we wait for the possible hybrid or all electric STI, is it really a bad thing. Other companies have already introduced hybrid high performance cars from the small ones to the big Boys like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini. We just have to play our cards right when they eventually arrive. Now mind you a hybrid can still have a manual as it may still use the FA24DIT connected to a electric motor. Can they use development of the new car to replace the cvt with a 8 speed tranny yes. My curiosity is the connection of the possible 2 electric motors for the symmetrical AWD system. Will it be connected like the plug-in crosstrek or no connection like the solterra. Also the two motors instant torque can compensate for the turbo lag as it spools up unless they are using an electric turbo. We are supposed to getting more hybrids for the money maker product lines. If we are lucky, enough hybrids will give subaru permission to introduce a wrx or brz ts model before introducing a hybrid for the first time on the wrx lineup. And by the way, if the toyota rumors are true, the wrx may not be the only performance car we have to go hybrid

[SCRAPPYDO]

I do not want two drivetrains. It drives the price up and adds complexity. Make it ICE OR EV. I also do not want the weight or cost of two drivetrains. I can see a hybrid for a commuter car, but Subarus cannot be priced like a mclaren and sell. It is a confusing nut to crack... that is what usually happens when government involves itself in industries it has no business meddling with.

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by bugatti0628

As we wait for the possible hybrid or all electric STI, is it really a bad thing. Other companies have already introduced hybrid high performance cars from the small ones to the big Boys like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini. We just have to play our cards right when they eventually arrive. Now mind you a hybrid can still have a manual as it may still use the FA24DIT connected to a electric motor. Can they use development of the new car to replace the cvt with a 8 speed tranny yes. My curiosity is the connection of the possible 2 electric motors for the symmetrical AWD system. Will it be connected like the plug-in crosstrek or no connection like the solterra. Also the two motors instant torque can compensate for the turbo lag as it spools up unless they are using an electric turbo. We are supposed to getting more hybrids for the money maker product lines. If we are lucky, enough hybrids will give subaru permission to introduce a wrx or brz ts model before introducing a hybrid for the first time on the wrx lineup. And by the way, if the toyota rumors are true, the wrx may not be the only performance car we have to go hybrid

I think the car might have to have different dimensions. If we're talking Hybrid, then a separate (Appropriately powered) EV cell will need to coincide with the AWD system. Just not a whole lot of room. The NSX, I love how they set that b*tch up. But then again, Subaru will need to reconfigure the drive train if they went separate EV motors in the front or rear. Its undoubtedly dubious task, and if they need time to make this thing right as rain, I want them to have all the damn time they need.

They already mentioned that the STI will not follow in line with the VB WRX platform. Other companies all have their flagships from the Supra, Type R, etc. Subaru will need to bring something radically different to satiate demand for such new tech (Which before, Subaru hasn't been worried about being at the forefront,) now they're going to have to buck up or take a massive L on this release.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

Fckn' hillarious! your probably one of the "enthusiasts" that bitched and moaned for Subaru to get rid of the outdated EJ for the last 5 years, bring an equal displacement direct injected twin scroll turbo update to replace it in the lineup and when they did just THAT in the new WRX, you probably complained about the black fender flares lol..

then probably bitched when Subaru axed the STI and said they were going electric, and want another 10 years of flat 4 turbos

now your complaining that their premiere EV MODEL is inadequate lmfao....and that they should be making better EV's.....?

I don't know what you want!! Ha ha ha h ha ha!

I apologize guys for quoting...

I never asked for them to replace the EJ. I've owned 4 EJs, and never had a complaint. I have complained about the cladding, baboon butt and lack of dampers/Recaros on the manual.

I did complain when the STI was canceled, you can read all of my comments this thread, if not the 2022 thread. I planned on buying a VB-STI in 2024 when my Giulia goes off lease. I planned that lease to line up to the new STI. So, yes, I am very upset. I am happy to get an EV-STI in the future, but I also wanted one last manual STI to keep forever.

The Solterra is inadequate. I have owned 3 EVs since 2018. My 2018 Model 3 would run circles around the Solterra, for less money. I am not hating the Solterra for being an EV, I am hating on it for not being compelling vs it's competition. I am the the person who created the Solterra thread. I was very excited for it, and probably would have got one for my wife...but not as it is today.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by samagon

I'm sorry, what?

if I ever needed proof that the technology isn't ready for reality, this here, that's it.

I should never have to worry that my car is going to be made obsolete by some technology update that is forced into the system by companies lobbying the government that the infrastructure needs to be better to accommodate new tech.

here I am worried that the worst thing I have to worry about is that it'll take 20-30 minutes to charge enough to get me 180-200 miles of driving. presuming of course someone doesn't pull into the spot ahead of me (making my 20-30 minute charge a 40-60 minute charge). presuming also the spot isn't being ICE'd, presuming also that just because the charge point is alive enough to ping back to the mainframe and say it's 'up' and available, maybe the CC reader is busted, maybe the screen it turned off, maybe someone harvested the cable for copper.

really, I should be worried about whether a car I buy today will be forced into obsolescence at some arbitrary time in the future.

JFC dude.

What dwf137 said. The Nissan Leaf uses CHADeMO for DC fast charging. That is basically no longer supported (ok, yes, you can find them...one charger at an EA location vs a sea of CCS chargers). To the point that the new Nissan Ariya comes with CCS.

Originally Posted by dwf137

But he's mostly taking a dig at my car which has a chademo charge port as the level 3 charge port.

I wasn't trying to "take a dig." I was really trying to say that because of your scenario, I understand why you may feel like the infrastructure in inadequate (of course you added over crowding, etc). No bad feelings here.