Next Gen STI Canceled

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by heavyD

Who was that poster that proclaimed he knew a Subaru engineer that said Subaru was having issues getting big power out of the FA24? That guy should be our new insider as his buddy was telling the truth. Would likely have been difficult to make the EJ257 compliant for the 2023 EPA changes.

I'm with you....






.....if he even gets anymore info after sharing that here.


I don't think it was an engineer though. More like a corporate person.

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[Brad Pittiful]

Originally Posted by Straight6

It's complicated.

ive been around here a long time...he isnt the first or will be the last

uncle scotty comes to mind

[timpala11]

I'm so pizzazz'd about this I have considered turning off the Subaru-sponsored Philly Union free stream because of the love ads. Unrelated to me wanting to turn it off because much like Subaru, MLS vacuums donkey scroti.

edit: I guess my STi is like the rest of my portfolio now, volatively high ceiling.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Subaru has helped develop an EV platform.

Let’s not start that debate. Let’s all commiserate as one about the STI.

[Apharmd]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

In the future, there won't be a lot of cars that will interest you under 50k, period. This is another indicator of the death of the middle-class affordable sports car. Politicians have already vocalized their out-of-touch solutions. "If you don't want to pay high gas prices, then buy an electric car." Who has the money for this? Where are the ****ing charging stations? I can see the middle class back to single-car households.

Don't worry, the government will take care of you, as long as you conform to what benefits their false narratives.

Long live 2019. We're in the upper-middle class range, and our spending and value of a dollar feels more like it did right after we finished college.

I can't disagree with any of this. It seems like the fun cars have been priced out of the realm of Joe Everyman and are now a privilege that only the very well-off and wealthy can enjoy. Some of it is the EPA standards. But of course our government doesn't care about the effect that this has on our hobby and enjoyment.

[4S-TURBO]

Nope.

[meebs]

WRX hybrid Viziv confirmed then.

[dcsti]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

And would you say a modern Tesla is much improved over an EV-1?

Let's bring the goalposts back over here and focus on mass again, which was the central point under discussion.

An EV1 was a 2000ish pound subcompact. A model 3 can exceed that by a factor of 2. So no, it's not any better. In fact, it's a lot worse.

Perhaps a more fair comparison is a Bolt, which only weighs 1500 pounds more. Once again, the weight, which was my original point, is worse.

Did the range improve? Yes, by about the same factor as the mass. Is it possible to build a sub-3300 pound WRX-like EV sports car with decent range? Not at this time, and if the progression from the EV1 to today is any guide, not for a while - and Subaru certainly won't be achieving anything like that on their first attempt at electrification.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Apharmd

I can't disagree with any of this. It seems like the fun cars have been priced out of the realm of Joe Everyman

Miata's and BRZ's are literally the two most "fun" cars available and are well below the average price of a new car... *shrug*

[Goempie]

Would Subaru deleted it if the new WRX was arrived as fantastic? The fanbase did wind it away.
It is already difficult to justify the development cost of the car if you see global sales. Europe and other low CO2 countries are not possible

[nealric]

Originally Posted by dcsti

Let's bring the goalposts back over here and focus on mass again, which was the central point under discussion.

An EV1 was a 2000ish pound subcompact. A model 3 can exceed that by a factor of 2. So no, it's not any better. In fact, it's a lot worse.

Perhaps a more fair comparison is a Bolt, which only weighs 1500 pounds more. Once again, the weight, which was my original point, is worse.

Did the range improve? Yes, by about the same factor as the mass. Is it possible to build a sub-3300 pound WRX-like EV sports car with decent range? Not at this time, and if the progression from the EV1 to today is any guide, not for a while - and Subaru certainly won't be achieving anything like that on their first attempt at electrification.

The EV 1 was not 2,000 lbs. It was more like 3,000lbs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

A RWD model 3 can come in at around 3,500 for SR RWD (which is quicker than an STI in the real world). The main thing holding the Model 3 from feeling like a sports car is more aggressive suspension and steering setup. And the Model 3 is now a 5 year old car. There are a lot of opportunities for improvement.

Also, don't forget that EVs have much better weight distribution (it's mostly on the floor). That means they can gain a bit of weight over their closest ICE counterparts without feeling overly heavy.

[dcsti]

Originally Posted by nealric

The EV 1 was not 2,000 lbs. It was more like 3,000lbs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

A RWD model 3 can come in at around 3,500 for SR RWD (which is quicker than an STI in the real world). The main thing holding the Model 3 from feeling like a sports car is more aggressive suspension and steering setup. And the Model 3 is now a 5 year old car. There are a lot of opportunities for improvement.

Also, don't forget that EVs have much better weight distribution (it's mostly on the floor). That means they can gain a bit of weight over their closest ICE counterparts without feeling overly heavy.

Sorry, I got my EV1 mass confused with a Honda Insight. Turns out, the EV1 was heavy, too, although it actually got lighter when they switched to NiMh batteries from lead acid. Unfortunately, most EVs are using the current state of the art chemistry so there's no easy weight savings out there today.

I know they could stick a stiffer suspension and tires under a 3 and it would feel sportier. However, I don't see much fat that could be cut on a Tesla at this point - the interior is already austere, the suspension bits are aluminum, etc. They could use more aluminum in the body panels and chassis, but this would increase the price. When it comes right down to it, EVs will be 400-500 pounds heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle because gasoline is a much more mass efficient way to store energy. And while you can tweak the tires and suspension, an extra quarter ton is going to degrade turning and stopping, even if it is low in the chassis.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I can't recall every Nighthawk post but wasn't the main theory that they would make the next STI a performance-hybrid? That's not what is happening at all.

They have now shelved the STI for yearssss until a new EV platform exists (It doesn't currently, the STI-ERA is an E-GT spec race car).

I mean, every car in the future will be an EV lol.

Yeah more I think of it, you can’t even say he’s partly right. Everything has been binned all together. Nobody would have doubted a suggestion that “maybe Subaru will have a performance EV in 7-10 years” which wasn’t his main assertion.

One other thing to consider, even though optimism is incredibly futile now. For anyone who has any interest in a performance EV (not the slightest here) there is no reason Subaru would have to wait for this WRX generation to go extinct to release some sort of EV STI, as it would be its own thing entirely. That could be sooner-ish.

[Betowrx1]

Would be sweet 2023 wrx with 320 hp. Waiting an extra year like I did with my 2009.

[heavyD]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I'm with you....






.....if he even gets anymore info after sharing that here.


I don't think it was an engineer though. More like a corporate person.

Maybe eventually you may come across discussions within sales circles about the reason but my theory is that next gen was always going to be electric and Subaru decided it was not worth investing in a new engine (revised variant of FA24 or updates to the EJ257) for this single generation especially given the current circumstances of parts constraints.

[bugatti0628]

Originally Posted by meebs

WRX hybrid Viziv confirmed then.

it was a hybrid concept. is it possible they dusted off the old concepts plans and are contemplating introducing it as a brand new sti on a unique platform.

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by fredzy

Yeah more I think of it, you can't even say he's partly right. Everything has been binned all together. Nobody would have doubted a suggestion that "maybe Subaru will have a performance EV in 7-10 years" which wasn't his main assertion.

wrong. my main assertion in posts 2-3 YEARS ago, was that the next Gen STI was going electric. And that is exactly what is happening.

When supposed reliable "leaks" came out more recently than that last year that the 2.4FA with 400 horsepower was coming in the STI...I "entertained" that as something I was confident could happen. That did not change my main assertion that the next gen was NOT going to have that engine long if it were true, because it was already obsolete as the FA had been out for 5 years already in the WRX, and I consistently said that it would be going electric by 2025 or soon after that because too many other brand flagship cars had already done it or had already announced it. I was saying that in posts over 2 years ago. My minions got REALLY upset by that, and they bizzarely retorted saying that the FA 2.4 was going to be in the next gen STI for 10 years. Lol. I blocked roughly 15 of these ev deniers from my threads after that because i just couldnt comprehend their backwards logic.

I was saying The next gen STI is going to be either hybrid or full, if you break down and comprehend the official statement from Subaru, the next Gen STI is either going to be an electric hybrid or EVEN MORE likely now FULLY ELECTRIC. Therefore the next the. sti will be electric. That mirrors what i was writing in several threads 2-3 years ago lol. My minions laughed and mocked. Whos laughing now Mfr's. The next STI is going to be electric. I drop the mic once again.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dcsti

Sorry, I got my EV1 mass confused with a Honda Insight. Turns out, the EV1 was heavy, too, although it actually got lighter when they switched to NiMh batteries from lead acid. Unfortunately, most EVs are using the current state of the art chemistry so there's no easy weight savings out there today.

I know they could stick a stiffer suspension and tires under a 3 and it would feel sportier. However, I don't see much fat that could be cut on a Tesla at this point - the interior is already austere, the suspension bits are aluminum, etc. They could use more aluminum in the body panels and chassis, but this would increase the price. When it comes right down to it, EVs will be 400-500 pounds heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle because gasoline is a much more mass efficient way to store energy. And while you can tweak the tires and suspension, an extra quarter ton is going to degrade turning and stopping, even if it is low in the chassis.

Pretty much my point. Is Tesla even trying with it's regular cars...not a Roadster.....to be handling kind of cars? The EV-1, at best, had a 160 mile range with 130hp. What does even the cheapest Tesla offer? It will get better beyond "...at this point". MY WHOLE POINT. At THIS point, you are right. What do they have in store in 5 years? 3 years?





And no, I'm not trying to say it will be Subaru(with Toyota even) that will have some miracle badass car soon.

[NighthawkSTI]

I may, if I feel like it tell you when the next Gen STI will be here. Some of the timeframes people are throwing out are laughable, these are the EV deniers that don't want it to happen, but oh boy..it happening!!! These EV deniers have been sniffing too many crankcase vapors from their oil fill tubes.

[bugatti0628]

the article is saying they won't use the current wrx platform for an STI. that doesn't mean they can't release a wrx ts. STI front lip, side skirts, and rear diffuser. it can also have a unique STI cold air intake, exhaust and tune. however I do recall that talk of a collaboration with toyota to reintroduce subaru to rally with a new vehicle. old pictures showed it looking like a new impreza hatchback with a supposedly detuned FA24DIT. now mind you it could possibly be lighter than the current wrx but still already be on the SGP platform. they don't need to call that vehicle an STI.

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by bugatti0628

the article is saying they won't use the current wrx platform for an STI.

EXACTLY. And this shouldn't even big the big takeaway epiphany from the release for some, since this has been a goal for Subaru since 2015 when they started focusing on marketing the STI as a separate model from the WRX. This isnt a surprise at all.

The part people didn't want to believe then was that the STI would be going electric and it is.

[bugatti0628]

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

I may, if I feel like it tell you when the next Gen STI will be here. Some of the timeframes people are throwing out are laughable, these are the EV deniers that don't want it to happen, but oh boy..it happening!!! These EV deniers have been sniffing too many crankcase vapors from their oil fill tubes.

when plans for what a company wants to do are upended by forces out of their control, it leads to moments like this week's news. now back to the point at hand. they won't use the new wrx platform for a new STI. as such, it won't look like the current wrx which is not necessarily a bad thing. it may look better. also ask Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini if adding a hybrid was a bad thing. also was there a rule that an sti has to be a sedan, hatchback, or coupe only. we are in a wait and see moment for a "NEW" STI, it just won't look like the new wrx and take a little bit longer to see.

[4S-TURBO]

So Subaru failing to make more reliable power out of the FA24 for the WRX STI forcing an abrupt killing of the model for the entire generation and an out of the blue press release proves they were going EV all along?

What a joke.

[NighthawkSTI]

Originally Posted by bugatti0628

when plans for what a company wants to do are upended by forces out of their control, it leads to moments like this week's news. now back to the point at hand. they won't use the new wrx platform for a new STI. as such, it won't look like the current wrx which is not necessarily a bad thing. it may look better. also ask Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini if adding a hybrid was a bad thing. also was there a rule that an sti has to be a sedan, hatchback, or coupe only. we are in a wait and see moment for a "NEW" STI, it just won't look like the new wrx and take a little bit longer to see.

VERY well said!! All true. They simply waited too long to bring the FA2.4 to the STI and made no sense to use it when by 2025 electrification in ohtwr brands performance cars will.be common...and electrification was already happenning in other brand flagship cars and the external forces you are referring too sealed the fate, and forced the wait for the next gen STI as they go electric.now as well. In order for the STI to be competetive with other brands flagship marques, a flagship STI has no choice but to be electrified.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

So Subaru failing to make more reliable power out of the FA24 for the WRX STI forcing an abrupt killing of the model for the entire generation and an out of the blue press release proves they were going EV all along?

What a joke.

I would bet they had zero interest in an EV STI before 2030. This is just based on regulations that make their motors seem really polluting. Even in Europe they can barely sell the basic cars.

The fact that an EV STI will exist in a long time from now was obvious and not some premonition. The guesses were about an SGP STI, not a skateboard. So I don't accept that anyone guessed this would happen.