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Old 12-04-2021, 04:19 PM   #251
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The new Civic has an aluminum hood, so I’d be shocked if the GR doesn’t.

Current hatchback has an aluminum hood.
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Old 12-04-2021, 05:02 PM   #252
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If your talking about my statement of 60K pre. Read again. That was AUS pricing.
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Old 12-04-2021, 05:07 PM   #253
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Edit won't work.. ok I see what your saying Pre..

Never Mind..
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Old 12-04-2021, 07:54 PM   #254
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Okay, I'll chime in I'd be willing to pay $40K max as well.

I don't care for the CF roof, I'll gladly take a sunroof.
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Old 12-04-2021, 08:08 PM   #255
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$40k max is what I would pay but, yes what pre said, it depends on the full package, details, specs.

If it's a non-diff'd AWD, no fancy suspension, turbo Corolla hatch, then $34k max.

Last edited by subyski; 12-04-2021 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:24 PM   #256
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You could not be more incorrect. The GR Yaris with diffs would be around 40k. Toyota loses money on every single one of them sold. The information is out there in Europe. It’s a WRC homologation car, but it’s also a marketing tool for Toyo which is why they will take the L on every one sold. They are rebranding the company with Gazoo. Gazoo is all about selling CUV’s etc. Automobile manufacturing is all about getting the squares to see the Supra, the 86, the GR Corolla, and hubby wants that, but then gets talked into a pivot into a family machine by the wife or by the stealer salesmen. This is how it works. Offer some sporty models to goose up your lineup, take the L, or break even on them to sell the pedestrian bs.

It’s not going to cost 60k. That’s stupid. ADM on FMC’s or brand new models is prevalent throughout the industry. It’s dumb and meant for dummies with more money than sense. I heard all the same garbage on my RS. I waited, bided my time, and bought one 9 months later for under invoice. Toyo will either f the USDM (no diffs) and price it against the WRX or it’ll have a circuit pack (God willing) and be priced against the CTR, and STi. It’s not going to be Golf R priced. It won’t have that interior, motor, etc. Mid 30k to 40k range. If idiots pay more that’s on them and you have to just wait that out. The drivetrain R&D and motor R&D have already been paid for, bean counted, and allotted to the GR Yaris program. So that’s all done and dusted. I highly doubt they put a CF roof on the Corolla like the GR Yaris has. And the GR Yaris is a composite chassis. One end of the car is jacked from the Corolla, and the other side of the car is straight Yaris. They don’t have to do that either with the Corolla. The GR Corolla we get will be a parts bin car and that’s just fine. Some of the best cars to hit our shores are parts bin machines. That’s seems to be, sometimes, the only way we get cool S at all.

Funny to read some of this. I thought nobody wanted hatchbacks here? They don’t sell, blah blah. Now we have people stating this car will be 60k.
There is certainly demand for them. 60k type demand? I doubt it but we live in crazy times with straight dummies so yeah you may have to wait some. I’m pretty used to that. And I never get in a hurry to spend thirty to forty thousand dollars of my hard earned money. Video cards will eventually sus out like everything else as the global economy and market normalizes. We still have at least a year for supply chains to normalize. The fear and death and gloom stuff is past its’ time. Things will not stay the way they are forever.
Like I said, what’s the hurry? It’s gonna be $60k with $20k ADM. think that’s crazy? That’s one bitcoin. A coworker has 30 of them that he paid pennies for. It’s a dozen shares of the S&P500. There is so much money out there now that people don’t care what something costs. It ain’t going back, it can’t. We’re past that point.

Yeah I won’t pay over MSRP, but it may never sell for MSRP.
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Old 12-05-2021, 12:53 AM   #257
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Like I said, what’s the hurry? It’s gonna be $60k with $20k ADM. think that’s crazy? That’s one bitcoin. A coworker has 30 of them that he paid pennies for. It’s a dozen shares of the S&P500. There is so much money out there now that people don’t care what something costs. It ain’t going back, it can’t. We’re past that point.

Yeah I won’t pay over MSRP, but it may never sell for MSRP.
Disagree with that statement. A lot of people got a crap load of stimulus money and a good chunk has gone towards auto car purchases. Most dealers have made a ton of money due to stimulus and lack of inventory (chip shortages), however dealers are in a volume business. Markups, marginal or excessive, are only paid by a very small percentage of buyers. Most will not pay a markup.

BTW, if I had 30 bitcoins I would not be looking at a Corolla.
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Old 12-05-2021, 07:53 AM   #258
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Disagree with that statement. A lot of people got a crap load of stimulus money and a good chunk has gone towards auto car purchases. Most dealers have made a ton of money due to stimulus and lack of inventory (chip shortages), however dealers are in a volume business. Markups, marginal or excessive, are only paid by a very small percentage of buyers. Most will not pay a markup.

BTW, if I had 30 bitcoins I would not be looking at a Corolla.
My theory presumes the stimulus will continue in 2022 and beyond. Not necessarily in the same form but government putting cash into people’s hands. If they don’t then yeah prices will normalize. Much of the car buying was by people who didn’t get checks cause their income was too high. They bought nice cars, real estate, fine art etc cause their stock portfolios exploded. It’s the biggest form of stimulus and will continue for years.

The kid drives a company car (a Subaru) last I heard. He’s a HODLer like most who didn’t sell at $5, $500, or $50,000.

Seriously though I think initially the ADM will be $20k, and it’ll drop, but you may not see MSRP for years, there’s just too much easy money out there and it’s gonna get worse not better. The stimulus Genie is out of the bottle and it’s not going back in.
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:10 AM   #259
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Yeah I don't see anyone but enthusiasts picking up the GR Corolla and using their stimulus money to get it. Maybe a couple of people will work out the maths, but I think most of us willing to spend mid-to-upper $30k will do so with qualifying income + trade-in + cash, etc. Obviously we won't know until we get there, but so far the only enthusiast car that I keep hearing about having ADM constantly is the CTR. Beyond that I've seen people find good deals on the BRZ, Supra, GTI, Golf R, Hyundai N cars, WRX, STI, etc.

Personally I'm not overly worried about it. If the specs are legit then I'll gladly put a deposit down. But if the dealer adds ADM then I'll just take my money back and put it towards the same car elsewhere at some point. Also there will always be someone who buys it and then has to sell it shortly afterwards (divorce, moving, needs to buy a new house, etc), so a very lightly used GR Corolla would be fine too.

For now, we hurry up and wait!
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Old 12-05-2021, 01:54 PM   #260
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Like I said, what’s the hurry? It’s gonna be $60k with $20k ADM. think that’s crazy? That’s one bitcoin. A coworker has 30 of them that he paid pennies for. It’s a dozen shares of the S&P500. There is so much money out there now that people don’t care what something costs. It ain’t going back, it can’t. We’re past that point.

Yeah I won’t pay over MSRP, but it may never sell for MSRP.
You are the one on about hurrying bs. I’m not in a f’in hurry and never get in one. So this is getting ridiculous.

And this 60k nonsense, is just that. Geez man give it a rest. It’s stupid. New performance cars will get ADM. And not all dealers do it. The car hasn’t even been shown with details and pricing from the manufacturer yet you are telling us it’s going to be 60k. Well “It may never sell for MSRP” . Go ahead and throw some drama out there with the drama queen business. For f sake.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:07 PM   #261
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For sure the question is - will it target WRX, or STI? And why not both?

Some outrageously expensive experimental car would be cool for the handful that get them... what is NEEDED is a solid AWD alternative to WRX, STI, GTI, R.
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:53 PM   #262
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For sure the question is - will it target WRX, or STI? And why not both?

Some outrageously expensive experimental car would be cool for the handful that get them... what is NEEDED is a solid AWD alternative to WRX, STI, GTI, R.
In all honesty I could care less what it competes with, as long as it is the full package, i.e. it comes with the diffs, tuned suspension, the 268HP motor and 6 speed manual trans. I know a Toyota product will be more reliable than the WRX or the STI. A tune and a couple of after market goodies, I’d settle for 325-350HP. I won’t be worrying about ringlands, blown pistons, etc.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:32 PM   #263
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You are the one on about hurrying bs. I’m not in a f’in hurry and never get in one. So this is getting ridiculous.

And this 60k nonsense, is just that. Geez man give it a rest. It’s stupid. New performance cars will get ADM. And not all dealers do it. The car hasn’t even been shown with details and pricing from the manufacturer yet you are telling us it’s going to be 60k. Well “It may never sell for MSRP” . Go ahead and throw some drama out there with the drama queen business. For f sake.
The Ascent has ADM now. the world has changed dude. Yeah, we keep hearing it’s temporary. Been hearing that for months now and inflation is going up, not down.

Carmakers are talking 2023 now for chip shortages to ease. You still can’t get a video card for MSRP and it’s been years now. I think it’s funny we’re so eager to hear specs when it’ll be 3 years before we can get one even close to MSRP.

Last edited by VarmintCong; 12-05-2021 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:41 PM   #264
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For sure the question is - will it target WRX, or STI? And why not both?

Some outrageously expensive experimental car would be cool for the handful that get them... what is NEEDED is a solid AWD alternative to WRX, STI, GTI, R.
Assuming $39k with diffs it clearly competes with the Type R and Golf R. And I’m sure an open diff version will exist at lower cost to compete with WRX and GTI, and the Hyundai N cars.
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:15 PM   #265
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The Ascent has ADM now. the world has changed dude. Yeah, we keep hearing it’s temporary. Been hearing that for months now and inflation is going up, not down.

Carmakers are talking 2023 now for chip shortages to ease. You still can’t get a video card for MSRP and it’s been years now. I think it’s funny we’re so eager to hear specs when it’ll be 3 years before we can get one even close to MSRP.
You're high as a ****ing kite to think there would be some $20k ADM on this vehicle. Last week on CNBC it was end of 2022 for chip shortage to lift. Additionally, when they say "vehicle chip shortage," its not casting a wide net on all chips. Its actually the cheap ass chips that control things like auto on/off for fuel savings and misc silly features. Chip manufacturers have allocated resources to higher margin chips.
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Old 12-05-2021, 11:46 PM   #266
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The Ascent has ADM now. the world has changed dude. Yeah, we keep hearing it's temporary. Been hearing that for months now and inflation is going up, not down.

Carmakers are talking 2023 now for chip shortages to ease. You still can't get a video card for MSRP and it's been years now. I think it's funny we're so eager to hear specs when it'll be 3 years before we can get one even close to MSRP.
The GR Corolla will be a 2023 model for one. Two, people want to hear specs so they can plan, myself being one of them. Am I going to put down 10k, 15k, or 20k? Enthusiasts will be eager to know details about something they are VERY interested in buying.

You're just being crazy with all the doom and gloom stuff. The world has changed for now, it will not last not matter how much your profess. Companies make more $ when supply channels flow, not when they are hindered.

Quit whining.

Last edited by Pre; 12-06-2021 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:26 AM   #267
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good read here and the real conversation here is not the car to me, but the auto market trying to establish a new normal. A new era of paying MSRP for their product. They just need to get the public used to getting screwed and not asking for deals.

2 years ago I could buy an F150 and get 15k off sticker and 0% for 72months and 5 years free maintenance.

now they are only offering 500 off sticker and no other incentives. Once the supply comes back on line it only takes the tiniest bit of creativity to rebalance the inventory and keep the MSRP prices fixed and they will increase volume again as 84 and 96 month financing becomes the new norm.

The people that can call BS on any chip shortage are so low it can be considered non existent and the customer will have no choice but to pay inflated prices for everything.

This is just one way inflation happens, and just one way the value of money around the world loses buying power.

As much as I LOVE buying new vehicles I will absolutely NOT contribute to this nonsense, and will not be buying another new car until the prices normalize again.

Car and trucks, especially trucks have been overpriced for decades. 15-20k dollars of profit per truck/SUV is good for them, but crappy for us.

In my mind if they could have sold it for that low before, then they can do it again. It does not cost any more to make. If that means I will have to wait 4 years, then so be it.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:58 AM   #268
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No one is holding a gun to your head that you need to buy a truck.

If anything, they should be a lot more expensive when you consider the external cost of every real American daily driving a 5500lb truck. Between drinking fuel at 17mpg and their big footprints that require enormous parking spots, and wider roads while triggering the overall safety arms race we’re in, we’d be better off if way fewer people drove trucks.
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Old 12-06-2021, 10:24 AM   #269
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people who keep the country moving drive trucks. Contractors, delivery people, small business owners drive trucks. I have a need to landscape often. I need to tow my classic cars around. I am about to buy a boat and tractor for some land I am about to buy in the next year. Not that I have to explain what I want to buy to you or anybody, just saying some people do need a truck. Some people just want one. Makes no difference to me. Anybody can drive what they want.

what you are talking about is conditioning people to do what you want through prices and driving people to a solution of your picking. Not very American. I'll pass on your way of thinking.

Further, If you are concerned about weight, then you should really hate EV. The Rivian I like weighs over 7000 lbs. Its a mid size truck. The roads will degrade at an alarming rate if we all switch to heavier EV. Just saying. Have nice day
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:03 AM   #270
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good read here and the real conversation here is not the car to me, but the auto market trying to establish a new normal. A new era of paying MSRP for their product. They just need to get the public used to getting screwed and not asking for deals.

2 years ago I could buy an F150 and get 15k off sticker and 0% for 72months and 5 years free maintenance.

now they are only offering 500 off sticker and no other incentives. Once the supply comes back on line it only takes the tiniest bit of creativity to rebalance the inventory and keep the MSRP prices fixed and they will increase volume again as 84 and 96 month financing becomes the new norm.

The people that can call BS on any chip shortage are so low it can be considered non existent and the customer will have no choice but to pay inflated prices for everything.

This is just one way inflation happens, and just one way the value of money around the world loses buying power.

As much as I LOVE buying new vehicles I will absolutely NOT contribute to this nonsense, and will not be buying another new car until the prices normalize again.

Car and trucks, especially trucks have been overpriced for decades. 15-20k dollars of profit per truck/SUV is good for them, but crappy for us.

In my mind if they could have sold it for that low before, then they can do it again. It does not cost any more to make. If that means I will have to wait 4 years, then so be it.
Except that’s not how the dealer network system works. Dealers make a lot of money on volume via bonuses and incentive sales programs offered by the manufacturer. Remember, Ford, Chevy, etc dealerships are not owned by the manufacturer. These auto manufacturers have both revenue and profit numbers to hit and dealers need to move volume. Thinking dealers, once supply chain is back to normal, won’t return to sales and incentives (which are pushed by the manufacturer) is silly. It will return, dealers have a ton of incentive for volume.

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No one is holding a gun to your head that you need to buy a truck.

If anything, they should be a lot more expensive when you consider the external cost of every real American daily driving a 5500lb truck. Between drinking fuel at 17mpg and their big footprints that require enormous parking spots, and wider roads while triggering the overall safety arms race we’re in, we’d be better off if way fewer people drove trucks.
My f150 averages 19-20 combined mpg which isn’t awful. Not great either. Prior to having a truck for work starting in 2017, I never thought I’d own one. Now, you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Once a EV truck ticks the boxes I need, I’ll switch over.

Do you feeL the same way about full size SUV’s like the Tahoe?
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:06 AM   #271
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I know plenty of guys who buy their wives their own truck because they feel safer having them in a truck when everyone else has trucks.

Everything is an arms race.
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:17 AM   #272
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What the hell happened to this thread?
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:32 AM   #273
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What the hell happened to this thread?
same thing to happens to all threads when there is no real news and people are sick of speculating for the 57th time. It wanders.
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:35 AM   #274
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same thing to happens to all threads when there is no real news and people are sick of speculating for the 57th time. It wanders.
You’re not wrong ***128514;
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:52 AM   #275
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people who keep the country moving drive trucks. Contractors, delivery people, small business owners drive trucks. I have a need to landscape often. I need to tow my classic cars around. I am about to buy a boat and tractor for some land I am about to buy in the next year. Not that I have to explain what I want to buy to you or anybody, just saying some people do need a truck. Some people just want one. Makes no difference to me. Anybody can drive what they want.

what you are talking about is conditioning people to do what you want through prices and driving people to a solution of your picking. Not very American. I'll pass on your way of thinking.

Further, If you are concerned about weight, then you should really hate EV. The Rivian I like weighs over 7000 lbs. Its a mid size truck. The roads will degrade at an alarming rate if we all switch to heavier EV. Just saying. Have nice day
You don’t need any of that ****. You want it. I’m fine with people having whatever they want provided they pay what it actually costs society as a whole.

I didn’t say a word about EVs. Road degradation is on an exponential scale so the difference between 7000 and 5500 doesn’t register versus semi trucks — which do a vast majority of road damage.

I definitely recognize that my 3000lb hatchback is ****ed when someone loses control of their 7000lbs EV, though. I’m never on the winning side of that dynamics simulation. I 100% hate the normalizing of weight gain that comes with long range EVs.
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