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05-08-2018, 11:07 PM | #26 |
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Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I'm having this exact problem with my 207 swapped Saabaru. It's pains me to have read through this, without it coming to a conclusion.
Same deal the whole way... Occasionally not starting, to starting every 5th-6th key turn. Then every 10th-15th turn. Now once every few weeks. Did the OP ever find the problem?
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05-09-2018, 11:07 AM | #27 |
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Have you gone through all the suggestions in the thread? It kind of sounds like a relay going bad.
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06-10-2018, 09:51 PM | #28 |
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So update... I shorted the clutch safety switch about a month ago and that seemed to fix the problem. But now it seems I'm back to square one.
Same deal.. started not working but after cycling the ignition a few times, it would fire up. Then it was after trying it 20 times. Now not at all. Any help is appreciated. I will be changing the starter relay next. |
06-11-2018, 01:17 AM | #29 |
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If the starter is around 10 years old then the solenoid contacts inside the starter solenoid could very well be worn out. Check to see if voltage is getting to the small ignition wire on the starter when in the START mode. If there is voltage there and you hear a fairly load click on the starter then it appears the contacts are bad. You can replace them but it may be better just to replace the starter. If you don't hear the click then power most likely isn't getting to the solenoid and a safety switch isn't working.
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06-12-2018, 05:48 PM | #30 |
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Is it possible this issue arises from a short in the ignition barrel itself? Maybe a broken wire or bad connection internally? I only skimmed this thread but it didn't seem like anyone checked this. One guy mentioned the fuel pump primes, which happen when the key is turned to ACC iirc, idk just an idea. Feel free to rip me apart if I'm way off
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10-27-2018, 05:47 PM | #31 |
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Ok. I'm really at a loss to what this is at the moment. Update as of yesterday (October 26th).
Had started tested at O'Reilly's - Passed. Battery manufactured April 2018. fully charged. Replaced both battery terminals & thick positive wire from battery to starter. Stripped and re-crimped connection to small ignition wire on starter solenoid. Tested voltage at said ignition wire while key is turned. Getting power, can't remember if it was exactly 12V. Short circuted/bypassed clutch safety switch. Replaced Starter Interlock Relay. Still, the starter is not engaging/cranking. When I jump the starter the car will start. I figure it has to be between the ignition barrel and the starter hot wire. Any help is greatly appreciated. |
10-28-2018, 01:35 AM | #32 |
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Check the voltage on the wht/red power wire going to the starter interlock relay while trying to start the engine. If you have 12 volts there then check the yellow wire on that relay. You should have voltage there also. If that checks out then you have a bad connection on the yellow wire going to the starter solenoid. If the voltage is low on the wht/red input wire then you need to check the power supply wire coming from the starter cut relay.
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10-28-2018, 01:42 PM | #33 |
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Cougar, you've been so helpful mate. This forum relies on people like you. I'll check that today.
Also is there an easier way to get these relays out than a pair or needle nose pliers and a flathead screwdriver? The one that I replaced is the top one, in a group of 4 lined vertically next to the fuse panel. |
10-28-2018, 03:09 PM | #34 |
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You're welcome for the help.
I would think you should be able to remove the relays by just using your hand, but perhaps not. Just to verify things, you are working on a '07 WRX, correct? Manual or AT? My info shows that the first relay in a line of 6 is the ignition relay, so if my info is correct, you may have replaced the wrong relay. The starter interlock relay is the 4th one in the line up. |
10-28-2018, 03:54 PM | #35 |
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It's actually a 2005 Saabaru swapped with a ver 8 ej207, so essentially a 2005 wrx wagon.
There are 4 relays, but 6 slots. The bottom 4 slots have relays, the top 2 for some reason do not. I replaced the top relay in the group of 4. So counting up from the bottom, it is relay number 4. Am I on track? It's hard to find reliable information when different people are saying completely opposite things. |
10-28-2018, 04:46 PM | #36 |
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Ok. I must have the right one because I see the 2 red/white wires, and the yellow. Along with a green and yellow which I'm assuming is the ground?
Both red/white are getting 12V when I turn key. Yellow is getting a steady 3V as soon as the accessories are turned on. Is that it? Do I need to replace the entire length of that yellow wire? I dont see why the yellow wire would be getting voltage unless you're trying to start. |
10-29-2018, 12:30 AM | #37 |
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You do have the correct relay. I wasn't sure which end was the start of the line up. It seems to start from the bottom.
The yellow wire should have 12 volts on it in the START position. The relay should be closed at that time. The ECU controls the relay coil via the GRN/YEL wire by making a ground connection inside the ECU. Make sure that wire has close to zero volts on it when trying to start the engine. If it doesn't, and has more than a couple of volts on the lead then we need to check the relay control operation. You could verify the relay operation by grounding that wire if the control lead does have a problem. If that is the problem and everything else is okay, the starter should work. If the control lead is close to zero volts when starting and the relay is good, but the yellow wire has low voltage on it like you stated, you then need to follow that lead back to the relay and find where you get 12 volts at. If you are at the relay socket and the contact voltage is low there, then you seem to have a bad relay socket. Provided that the WHT/red wire has 12 volts on it in the START mode and the relay is operating properly. Last edited by Cougar4; 10-29-2018 at 12:36 AM. |
10-29-2018, 01:23 AM | #38 |
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Yeah, the 3V is at the relay socket. And is showing 3V as soon as accessories are turned on. Should it be showing zero volts during this time? And 12V when in the start position?
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10-29-2018, 08:18 AM | #39 |
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There needs to be 12volts on the yellow wire when in the START position to operate the starter solenoid. If the Interlock Relay is working correctly, it should be in the 'contacts closed' position and switches 12volt power on the wht/red wire to the yellow wire, very simple. The voltage is low because there is something wrong with that connection to power. Either the relay socket contacts are bad, or the relay isn't turning on, which is controlled by the ECU. You have already replaced the relay so it should be good and I have already told you how to verify the operation of the relay in my previous post. You stated earlier that the wht/red wire had 12volts on it while in the START position so the input power going to the relay is good.
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10-29-2018, 12:52 PM | #40 |
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Excuse me if some of my questions sound pretty stupid, this is all new to me.
So my first order of business today would be to trace the yellow ignition wire back? from the relay, to the starter? I just dont understand why that is getting steady low voltage when I turn the car to ON. What could possibly be powering that? I was under the impression that when the relay closes, the 12V from the red/white wire would pass to the yellow, and start the car. what is between the relay and starter on the yellow wire? |
10-29-2018, 05:26 PM | #41 |
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Power to the solenoid is switched ON via the yellow wire connected to Interlock Relay contacts. That is it. If you supply 12 volts to the yellow wire at the relay socket and the starter works you have proved that the wire going to the solenoid is good. Your problem seems to be with the relay SOCKET contacts because you stated earlier that the wht/red wire did have voltage there. That is one side of the relay's switched contacts. The other side of the switch ties to the yellow wire going to the solenoid. It is a simple electric switch that is controlled by the ECU, ON- relay contacts closed, power is supplied to the soleniod, OFF-contacts open, power is cut off; relay ON-contacts closed, relay OFF-contacts open. If the relay is good and you have 12volts on the input to the relay but not on the yellow wire contact of the relay socket, then the socket has a bad connection to the relay.
You problem in understanding the issue may be because you don't understand what happens when a bad connection in a circuit takes place. A bad connection to power will cause resistance to happen. That resistance will cause a voltage drop across it when current is needed to supply a load of some sort when it is connected up. How much power (voltage) is able to reach the load all depends on how much resistance the bad connection is and how much current the load requires. Last edited by Cougar4; 10-29-2018 at 05:41 PM. |
10-29-2018, 08:31 PM | #42 |
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Ok, but none of that explains why the yellow wire is getting 3V without the key being turned to "start". How is that possible?
I've looked at a wiring diagram https://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/STi_Manual/index.htm scroll to chapter 7, point 42. It shows that the yellow ignition wire splits twice. once to go to the ECU and again to the Daytime Running Light Control module,whatever the **** that is. If the power is only coming from the 12V red/white cables, and im testing this WITHOUT a relay in... then where is that voltage coming from? Shouldn't the yellow be reading 0V? |
10-29-2018, 10:17 PM | #43 |
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There would seem to be some sort of very high resistance to power getting to the yellow wire somehow. Perhaps it is coming from the solenoid. The reading should be zero volts if that lead is totally isolated from power. The real fact of the matter is, it really doesn't matter. You need to have 12 volts on that wire when in the start mode.
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10-30-2018, 04:17 PM | #44 |
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Alright. So today I put the old starter interlock relay back in and tested the yellow wire through the insulation about 4 inches from the relay. Got 11.8V (battery has been getting a workout these past few days and tested at almost exactly 12V @ terminals)
Re-tested voltage at the starter ignition wire @ the starter solenoid - 11.4V Is that too low to trip the solenoid? I have the battery on charge at the moment, but im not hopeful it will start, even with a fully charged battery. Like I said, the starter has been tested multiple times and is not the problem. The only other thing I can think of is the ECU itself is not receiving the signal from the yellow ignition wire. |
10-30-2018, 06:37 PM | #45 |
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I think I have found the problem! I traced the yellow ignition wire to the ECU and found 2 loose ground wires coming from the bottom row of pins (2 grey/black) that had been spliced together and attached to a bolt that holds the metal passenger floor pan down. Touched the loose wire to said bolt, and bang! Starter fired instantly. Are those bolts an ok ground or should I try to ground it elsewhere?
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10-31-2018, 01:48 AM | #46 |
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Glad you found the problem. I would try to find a better ground position that is under the dash rather than the floor area.
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10-31-2018, 03:24 AM | #47 |
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thanks again for the help!
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12-03-2018, 08:20 PM | #48 |
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SO as an update, I found a mechanic who after 13 hours of labor, found the cause was a bad ground wire coming off the ECU, it was frayed and would work intermittently.
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12-03-2018, 09:59 PM | #49 |
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