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Old 09-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #4426
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Can I get some CN on what the refs are asking for?

I originally thought I heard some huge $$$ being tossed around. If that's the case, simply because teams have "a couple hundred thousand dollars" to toss around, doesn't mean I think refs should be paid that much for working 3 hours a day, 16 days a year.
I think they are making a pretty damn good case that they are rather indispensable, dont you?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:48 AM   #4427
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Originally Posted by ZMANNH25rs View Post
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/2...sly-suspected/

Union issues, pension issues, salary issues.

I heard on talk radio that the NFL might be trying to just bust the union on this one, play the whole season with the scrub refs and then just go out next year and get the D-1 college refs to come in. All the refs now are D-II or D-III for the most part and it is obvious they just can't keep up...


NFL refs are paid on average 149,000 per year, and the league has suggested annual 7 percent increases that would raise the regular salary to $189,000 by 2018.



For working, what, 20 days a year? 4 hours a day?

Greedy mother ****ers.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:49 AM   #4428
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Originally Posted by REX8

How many jobs get pensions these days? Yet refs should be entitled to one?

I'm sorry, they ref a sporting event. Simply because the NFL has gobs of money, doesn't mean a damn ref should be set for life.

At least in baseball, hockey, etc. they work a lot more.

*I make this rant with hardly any info on the subject, just massive speculation.
That's the thing, they've had a pension up until now. It's not them demanding something new.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:51 AM   #4429
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Greedy mother ****ers.
What part of the NFL doesn't involve greed?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:51 AM   #4430
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I think they are making a pretty damn good case that they are rather indispensable, dont you?
With the crew of scrubs out there now? Sure.

But two things:

The guys there now will only get better and adapt. It's a learning process that they didn't have going in. It's not exactly their fault.

And...

There are plenty of other very good refs that could be had by next season (D1 crews, etc.).
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:52 AM   #4431
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That's the thing, they've had a pension up until now. It's not them demanding something new.
And how many other jobs have had their pensions taken away?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #4432
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NFL refs are paid on average 149,000 per year, and the league has suggested annual 7 percent increases that would raise the regular salary to $189,000 by 2018.



For working, what, 20 days a year? 4 hours a day?

Greedy mother ****ers.


are they not compensated based on skill and experience?

Attorneys can bill at $900/hr - for what, reading an email and looking over some documents?

come on, you know its not about how much one works, its about the level of expertise and the rarity of that resource.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #4433
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #4434
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
NFL refs are paid on average 149,000 per year, and the league has suggested annual 7 percent increases that would raise the regular salary to $189,000 by 2018.



For working, what, 20 days a year? 4 hours a day?

Greedy mother ****ers.
I have to agree with an earlier point; it's become painfully clear that they are worth the $$. They have the bargaining power at this point. Yes, the NFL is not losing viewers, but they've become a national joke. Even local news broadcasts are piling on now.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:54 AM   #4435
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What part of the NFL doesn't involve greed?
Not sure what that means really. So, because other parts of the league are greedy, this is OK?

I'm OK with the refs fighting out of greed, fine. But I'm not feeling sorry for them if they lose their jobs over it.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:55 AM   #4436
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And how many other jobs have had their pensions taken away?
Hold on, so the refs should get theirs taken away because, everybody else? Considering how much money is involved with the NFL, what the refs are asking for is relatively small potatoes.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:55 AM   #4437
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Troy Brown to the Hall?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:56 AM   #4438
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
NFL refs are paid on average 149,000 per year, and the league has suggested annual 7 percent increases that would raise the regular salary to $189,000 by 2018.



For working, what, 20 days a year? 4 hours a day?

Greedy mother ****ers.
From what I understand it is way more work then just showing up putting on the stripes and being on the field for 4 hours. They also make less then any of the other major sport officials.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #4439
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are they not compensated based on skill and experience?

Attorneys can bill at $900/hr - for what, reading an email and looking over some documents?

come on, you know its not about how much one works, its about the level of expertise and the rarity of that resource.


900 hr. x 3 hrs a game x 20 games (some playoffs, etc.).

That's 54,000. We should be paying refs 2700/hr.? Really? And they're not even taking that deal.

They want more than 2700/hr. for their time.


And again, while these replacements aren't good, they are OTHER refs out there besides the union guys that are capable of doing a much better job. The NFL wasn't able to get them in teh time frame they had.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #4440
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Originally Posted by REX8

And how many other jobs have had their pensions taken away?
Plenty, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

The owners are trying to take away from the refs. It's not just the refs saying "give us all your monies".

We're also talking about the biggest sport in our country, that is bringing in more and more money everyday.

In the end I don't really care how it gets resolved, but it needs to happen.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:58 AM   #4441
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900 hr. x 3 hrs a game x 20 games (some playoffs, etc.).

That's 54,000. We should be paying refs 2700/hr.? Really? And they're not even taking that deal.

They want more than 2700/hr. for their time.


And again, while these replacements aren't good, they are OTHER refs out there besides the union guys that are capable of doing a much better job. The NFL wasn't able to get them in teh time frame they had.


does my point still not stand?

I thought you were one of the more intelligent people in OT
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #4442
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They also make less then any of the other major sport officials.
That's because they hardly have to work more than 20 days a year. Whereas a baseball ump is working MUCH more.

It's a part time job for god sakes.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:00 AM   #4443
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I'm pretty sure they work more than 20 days a year. Where are you getting your information?
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:00 AM   #4444
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I have to agree with an earlier point; it's become painfully clear that they are worth the $$. They have the bargaining power at this point. Yes, the NFL is not losing viewers, but they've become a national joke. .
They are losing me. I am making plans for Sunday that don't involve foosball.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #4445
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MEMORANDUM
TO: Owners of NFL Teams
FROM: NFLPA Executive Committee
DATE: September 20, 2012
RE: Your Lockout of the NFL Referees and the Negative Impact on Football

....As we predicted and explained to you weeks ago, the removal of the veteran officials from regular season games left a group of your replacements who have proved to be incapable of keeping pace with the speed of the game. Coaches and players have complained of numerous errors and failures including: erratic and missed calls on egregious holds and hits, increased skirmishes between players and confusion about game rules. Many replacements have lost control of games due to inexperience and unfamiliarity with players and rules.

The headlines are embarrassing: a scab working a game despite having been on the payroll of one of the teams, another who was assigned to referee a team he publicly supported on Facebook, and one who is a professional poker player when you propose even more stringent player rules on gambling.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #4446
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One day in the latter years of his career, Picasso was walking through a park when a woman stopped him.

"Oh my!" she said, "I love your work! Will you please draw me?"

"I'd be delighted my dear", said Picasso.

So, he sat down with a sketch pad and drew a portrait of the young woman in about 10 minutes.

"Here you go my darling" he said

"Its wonderful!" she exclaimed

"It was my pleasure" he said, "That will be $10,000"

"$10,000???! But it only took you ten minutes of your time!" she remarked.

"No my dear" he explained. "It took a lifetime"
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #4447
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I thought you were one of the more intelligent people in OT


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does my point still not stand?
Generally speaking, the point about compensating people for their expertise, and the value of their services...

Yes, of course it still stands. My response is that:

1. I think with proper training and time, even the current refs could do a good enough job.

2. There are other refs out there that can also do an adequate job.


Generally speaking, I feel that argument is like replacing the Supreme Court with a bunch of 1st year law students, then saying that clearly the ousted justices are worth their weight in gold because look at how ****ty the replacements are.

You could replace the justices with experiences federal judges, etc., and things wouldn't have been nearly as bad as they are.

The current replacements are ****ty refs. They are not nearly the "next best" refs in football.

So no, I'm not seeing their performance as any kind of evidence that the union ref's skills are so superior as to command such a premium salary.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:08 AM   #4448
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The players only work 20 days a year too I guess. Maybe 40 including training camp.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:08 AM   #4449
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For working, what, 20 days a year? 4 hours a day?

Greedy mother ****ers.
I think you are MASSIVELY underestimating the time they spend. Hochuli spends > 40 hrs a week on the ref stuff, despite being a successful lawyer. Do more research, you are judging them by a couple of hours a week for 16 weeks and that isn't even close.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--no...s-referee.html
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:09 AM   #4450
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The players only work 20 days a year too I guess. Maybe 40 including training camp.
yeah, coaches too. And all they do is yell from the sideline. They don't even have to run like the refs do.
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