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Old 02-25-2016, 01:29 AM   #201
lukethedork
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Jamal you don't really make sense and you are saying the same thing as Williaty. "In order to control roll with a decent tire on pavement, the spring rates will be more than high enough to deal with extra dive from a reduction in anti-geometry."
Are you saying that you had too high spring rate to begin with and reducing your anti-dive % helped maintain traction? Or that you had too high of a ride height so the increased dive doesn't matter?

P.S. These anti-lift kits also increase the amount of body roll in most cases. Not something you usually want on the front of these vehicles.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:21 AM   #202
tomacGTi
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http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...and-Scrub.aspx

Great explanation with an emphasis on page four. I've been comtemplating an ALK for awhile now and this recent rehashing of a thread has made me think about it again. I need to do more research for my needs and this article popped up.

-Randy
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:44 PM   #203
binny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukethedork View Post
I will add that I believe the anti-lift kits are less detrimental to performance the smoother the surface. However I would not ever add one to any vehicle that is driven on the road.
I was under the impression one of the main advantage of an ALK, was improved suspension motion over uneven road surfaces?

I had fitted the whiteline ALK to my road going track car and did also find 1 - 2 seconds a lap maybe it wasn't the extra lift / dive from the kit but the castor ?

I'm glad it's given me so much more confidence in my terrible driving skill
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:48 PM   #204
binny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
With the GD chassis, it's consistently reduced lap times in testing with a driver sufficiently skilled to take full advantage of the car in either configuration. It works in the real world, as well as on paper.

I have no real experience with the ancient GCs.
yes you do the GD is the same (close enough) suspension as an ancient GC, and an even more ancient legacy

GD chassis is a bit stiffer though
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Old 02-26-2016, 11:57 PM   #205
Bikelok
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I'll throw in my anecdotal experience.
After I installed the Whiteline kit, I immediately noticed FAR IMPROVED traction on the mountain roads I drive hard on.
I'm running softish spring rates (STI pinks).
It was so apparent how better it was on the rough road surfaces.

I'll never go back.
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:02 PM   #206
Crazyced
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Anyone has experience using the kit for rallycross (summer/winter)?
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:46 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyced View Post
Anyone has experience using the kit for rallycross (summer/winter)?

What are your asking about in particular?

I ran WL comfort ALK on my 06 WRX rallyx. There wasn't a durability problem. Theoretically it should have helped on the dirt too.

I can't prove it because there's just too many variables.
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:55 PM   #208
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I installed the WL ALK on my 2006 WRX and noticed an improvement.

The next item was to install the forward inner control-arm bushing, a WL Control Plus urethane bushing. This made an even greater improvement, when combined with the ALK.

I had other suspension and chassis modifications as well.

When having both the ALK and CP bushing in place, the front-end was effectively over-sprung so I had to drop the FSB size down to a 22mm from a 27mm.
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Old 08-24-2016, 04:58 PM   #209
Crazyced
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
What are your asking about in particular?

I ran WL comfort ALK on my 06 WRX rallyx. There wasn't a durability problem. Theoretically it should have helped on the dirt too.

I can't prove it because there's just too many variables.
I just wanted to know if the turn-in and oversteer (RWD like) caracteristics were kept on the dirt. My car is a RallyX car only.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:55 PM   #210
ezil71
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Anyone know the thread pitch for the transverse link bushing bolt to the body?

For my bugeye it is part 20540FC100. I think it is either 14x1.25 or 14x1.5?

I need to find the right size tap asap.

Edit: I can confirm it is 14x1.5

Hard to find the tap locally but harbor freight had a kit which included 14x1.5

Last edited by ezil71; 05-06-2018 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:49 PM   #211
Crazyced
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
See above about forces bypassing the springs and the car acting like it has a solid suspension. It makes it less able, not more, to react to bumps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukethedork View Post
The standard suspension geometry helps to overcome the dive. Front suspension dive is only bad if you no longer have enough suspension travel for the bumps ahead.
Sorry to revive this debate but as someone running an ALK kit on a rallycross car this is important for me to understand.

It seems to me that the crux of the disagreement between williaty and lukethedork is how the suspension is behaving while diving vs while encountering bumps.

williaty says that anti-dive effectively 'locks up' the suspension, leaving it unable to absorb bumps.

lukethedork on the other hand seem to say that the anti-dive through the suspension components allow more strut travel to be used to absorb bumps.

Who is correct in this case?

I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. But my initial feeling is that lukethedork might be correct. The fact that the suspension geometry is setup in such way to prevent the car from pushing the strut downward while braking might not necessarily mean that it is simultaneously preventing a bumps from pushing the wheel upward.

If this is true, it would mean that more anti-dive would be particularly beneficial for off road racing.

EDIT: Found this article:
https://www.joesracing.com/rt-4196-why-anti-dive.html

Quote:
Remember, the Anti Dive resistance occurs under braking so a bumpy track can potentially cause trouble – Anti Dive works best on smooth tracks. Well, I think it works best on smooth tracks and you will find that crew chiefs have varying opinions on this issue.
The answer to this might not be unanimous.

Last edited by Crazyced; 10-11-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:44 PM   #212
2pot
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Anti-dive, on a road car (usually 20-25%), allows you to use soft springs, but restrict the suspension travel and therefore confine the geometry, within defined parameters, under hard braking - changes in camber/toe adversely affect braking stability + passengers don't, generally, like being pitched around.

A racing car, with aero, might use 50% anti-dive, to maintain a pre-determined aero attitude.

If you fit an alk with oem spring rates, you'd better find a way compensate for the increase in dive. Anti-dive was resisting a rotational force, by restricting the suspension travel under braking.
The problem is, overly stiff springs, on a road car, decrease grip. Stiff front bump stops, as pitch control, induce understeer/affect ride quality, on poor road surfaces. Damper rates should be controlling spring oscillations, not compensating for sub-optimal design in other areas.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:37 PM   #213
OnYxGoLd
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Hi I know Iím late to the party but has anybody added the white line kca425 Caster bushing to their 2015+ chassis? I bought some and debating if itís worth the trouble of installing. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:39 PM   #214
binny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyced View Post
Sorry to revive this debate but as someone running an ALK kit on a rallycross car this is important for me to understand.

It seems to me that the crux of the disagreement between williaty and lukethedork is how the suspension is behaving while diving vs while encountering bumps.

williaty says that anti-dive effectively 'locks up' the suspension, leaving it unable to absorb bumps.

lukethedork on the other hand seem to say that the anti-dive through the suspension components allow more strut travel to be used to absorb bumps.


Who is correct in this case? = Both

the Anti dive does lock up the front under braking, reducing the ability of the wheel to follow the road surface (bumps)

More travel is gained with anti dive under braking as the shock stroke is not "used up" by the dive under braking using some of the available travel


I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. But my initial feeling is that lukethedork might be correct. The fact that the suspension geometry is setup in such way to prevent the car from pushing the strut downward while braking might not necessarily mean that it is simultaneously preventing a bumps from pushing the wheel upward.

If this is true, it would mean that more anti-dive would be particularly beneficial for off road racing.


EDIT: Found this article:
https://www.joesracing.com/rt-4196-why-anti-dive.html



The answer to this might not be unanimous.
have you watched and old WRC tarmac Subies heaps of dive and lift, and those trophy truck things you have over in the US
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