ESP - The competition - Page 86

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subydude

Yes, lets put the GC (93-01), GD (02-07), and GR (08-now) on the same line please

Can you say early 90's GC with a full GR swap in ASP? I'd wager a good solid 2,600 lbs or even less in SP trim with Evo numbers for power and a drivetrain that should be pretty solid.

In reality, putting the GD WRX in ASP means it should go on the same line as the GD/GR STi which basically means the best of breed 02 WRX with dual AVCS/right turbo/good trans & rear end.

I guess I was breaking at the 99 model in that scenario.

And nope. If I'm writing appendix A the STi's can stay on a different line

What's dual AVCS really worth?

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subydude · 09-18-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

I guess I was breaking at the 99 model in that scenario.

And nope. If I'm writing appendix A the STi's can stay on a different line

What's dual AVCS really worth?

So what about the WRX to BSP and all on the same line then? Leave ASP to the STi and Evo? Doesn't seem fair to the WRX to go play with the STi and not get access to all the hardware.

The dual AVCS seems to give 300-400 rpm quicker spool and hold power better up top as well. The low RPM stuff wouldn't matter much since it's already a smallish turbo, but the higher end stuff would be a benefit IMO.

sureshot007 · 09-18-2013, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subydude

So what about the WRX to BSP and all on the same line then? Leave ASP to the STi and Evo? Doesn't seem fair to the WRX to go play with the STi and not get access to all the hardware.

I think it's because of the perception that since an 09+ WRX has the same turbo, the power levels are on par with the STI already. No reason to split them into different classes at that point.

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subydude

So what about the WRX to BSP and all on the same line then? Leave ASP to the STi and Evo? Doesn't seem fair to the WRX to go play with the STi and not get access to all the hardware.

The dual AVCS seems to give 300-400 rpm quicker spool and hold power better up top as well. The low RPM stuff wouldn't matter much since it's already a smallish turbo, but the higher end stuff would be a benefit IMO.

I don't think you'd see AWD going back into BSP. They fought hard to get them out. Don't look at the BSP/ASP numbers from nats haha.

Mainly because I have zero interest in what the STi has available, in SP. They are pretty different cars, drivetrain wise.

I'll take a little more power with a more fragile drivetrain. They can have a bit more power with the weight penalty and gearing penalty of the 6sp. Different avenues. I also think it would maintain a perception that you don't have to go to far from what you originally purchased.

griceiv · 09-18-2013, 05:30 PM

...so is it obvious i'm not a subie guy?

GD-GR is what I meant.

Are the long blocks between the GD and GR similar enough (per solo rules) that you could swap turbos without having to do a full motor swap? or are we talking about doing full motor swaps to get the bigger turbo?

On the face of it the chassis seem different enough that the existing precedent in SP would be to keep them on separate lines. *edit* though now that I think about it the franken boxster/cayman combine different generations on the same line in asp, so who knows.

I think a best of breed GD would be interesting in ASP but would anyone build one?

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griceiv

...so is it obvious i'm not a subie guy?

GD-GR is what I meant.

Are the long blocks between the GD and GR similar enough (per solo rules) that you could swap turbos without having to do a full motor swap? or are we talking about doing full motor swaps to get the bigger turbo?

On the face of it the chassis seem different enough that the existing precedent in SP would be to keep them on separate lines. *edit* though now that I think about it the franken boxster/cayman combine different generations on the same line in asp, so who knows.

I think a best of breed GD would be interesting in ASP but would anyone build one?

I am confident that I am a turbo swap away from have an 09 wrx assembly in my car. Heads and block are identical. I did all the research in 08 as I was going to use the turbo prior to it being fastracked out to BSP in feb 09.

I really wouldn't mind if the STi's and WRX were same line. It's just my little personal preference that they would remain separate. STi and WRX engines would need to be almost a complete swap if they were same line. Heads, pistons, are different. Everything else is identical for most model years.

If I had the money I would do an 09 for ASP till then I'll push my agenda...haha

Back to ESP I'm doing anti-lag for next year. I want to see how many 5spds I can bust at a pro-solo start!

Storm · 09-18-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Back to ESP I'm doing anti-lag for next year. I want to see how many 5spds I can bust at a pro-solo start!

Lets see, 12 runs in a typical pro, -2 that really need to count and you gotta do at least 2 events to make the finale...... My guess is 10....

Get rid of that solid disc clutch and I might drop that estimate to 4-5 for the year.

Jay

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 06:47 PM

Solid disc + light weight flywheel = no bueno. Factory flywheel going back in. I will get to consistent 1.6's

griceiv · 09-18-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

I am confident that I am a turbo swap away from have an 09 wrx assembly in my car. Heads and block are identical. I did all the research in 08 as I was going to use the turbo prior to it being fastracked out to BSP in feb 09.

If I had the money I would do an 09 for ASP till then I'll push my agenda...haha

Back to ESP I'm doing anti-lag for next year. I want to see how many 5spds I can bust at a pro-solo start!

looks like all ej255 motors are the same (or will be soon through the part number obsolescence). so yeah, easy turbo swap if they were on the same line.

I tried the antilag stuff in the evo and it just spun the crap out of the tires. if i could get more consistent clutch control (tough to hold my leg still at over 1.2g forward accel haha) a low rpm/high boost launch would be awesome.

griceiv · 09-18-2013, 07:38 PM

the real question is would more that one person build a franken-subie for ASP? we need more people and it seems like it would be a damn fun and competitive car.

CamaroFS34 · 09-18-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Solid disc + light weight flywheel = no bueno.

Why do you say that?

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroFS34

Why do you say that?

Rotational mass is inadequate to throw it off the line. Launched like a turd at the pro.

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griceiv

the real question is would more that one person build a franken-subie for ASP? we need more people and it seems like it would be a damn fun and competitive car.

Unknown? there were quite a few in ESP this year though. I think they are both, wrx and sti, getting long in the tooth. So the modded versions show up more. It will end up being a good place for the dot-r crowd as the street proposal goes through.

I also think it makes since to have them all (awd) dsm, etc in one *SP class. I think it would grow it.

I'm on board

sureshot007 · 09-18-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Rotational mass is inadequate to throw it off the line. Launched like a turd at the pro.

You just need to stop being a puss and rev it higher

mccanixx · 09-18-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshot007

You just need to stop being a puss and rev it higher

I was at 6700 by sunday...

sureshot007 · 09-19-2013, 08:11 AM

Don't worry, the antilag will fix all of that!

I'm jealous, because I wanted to be the first one to run antilag at a pro.

CamaroFS34 · 09-19-2013, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Rotational mass is inadequate to throw it off the line. Launched like a turd at the pro.

Hrm. I've never not had a lightened flywheel in mine.

mccanixx · 09-19-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroFS34

Hrm. I've never not had a lightened flywheel in mine.

You lose mass in the disc as well. Put it in, drove to lincoln, realized the change Saturday morning first launch.

It was fine (better) the way it was. I did like the engagement more.

So I'll just put a factory flywheel back in and see how that feels.

subydude · 09-19-2013, 09:06 PM

I actually like how mine launches with the ACT streetlite version. I'm still running an Exedy sprung disc though. The 2-step is set at 6,200 on average for me.

griceiv · 09-20-2013, 03:16 AM

light weight flywheels? the 34lb exedy twin is where its at....

haha

zozza8 · 09-20-2013, 03:41 PM

Greg, how are you planning on setting up the anti-lag?

mccanixx · 09-20-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zozza8

Greg, how are you planning on setting up the anti-lag?

Clark Turner has a kit I'm going to experiment with. Uses the 32bit ecu/accessport. Don't know if it will be beneficial or not. But I'm interested in checking it out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

should be an open page

bradowen · 09-20-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Clark Turner has a kit I'm going to experiment with. Uses the 32bit ecu/accessport. Don't know if it will be beneficial or not. But I'm interested in checking it out.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

should be an open page

I know those guys

You coming out to lovely Scottsdale?

mccanixx · 09-20-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradowen

I know those guys

You coming out to lovely Scottsdale?

Oh yeah.

I was thinking about early next year. I can fiddle with the anti-lag on my own though. I think that's plug and play.

wrx wagone · 09-21-2013, 01:33 PM

i want video with this on...

09-18-2013, 05:30 PM	#2130
griceiv Scooby Newbie Member#: 162781 Join Date: Oct 2007	...so is it obvious i'm not a subie guy? GD-GR is what I meant. Are the long blocks between the GD and GR similar enough (per solo rules) that you could swap turbos without having to do a full motor swap? or are we talking about doing full motor swaps to get the bigger turbo? On the face of it the chassis seem different enough that the existing precedent in SP would be to keep them on separate lines. edit though now that I think about it the franken boxster/cayman combine different generations on the same line in asp, so who knows. I think a best of breed GD would be interesting in ASP but would anyone build one? Last edited by griceiv; 09-18-2013 at 05:43 PM.

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09-18-2013, 06:47 PM	#2133
mccanixx Scooby Specialist Member#: 60566 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego, Ca. Vehicle: 2005 XT 5sp, 02 WRX 01 Legacy 95 Impreza L	Solid disc + light weight flywheel = no bueno. Factory flywheel going back in. I will get to consistent 1.6's

09-18-2013, 07:38 PM	#2135
griceiv Scooby Newbie Member#: 162781 Join Date: Oct 2007	the real question is would more that one person build a franken-subie for ASP? we need more people and it seems like it would be a damn fun and competitive car.

09-19-2013, 08:11 AM	#2141
sureshot007 Scooby Specialist Member#: 142405 Join Date: Mar 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: TeamHazardRally.com Vehicle: #716 Group5 S10	Don't worry, the antilag will fix all of that! I'm jealous, because I wanted to be the first one to run antilag at a pro.

09-19-2013, 09:06 PM	#2144
subydude Scooby Guru Member#: 80649 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Columbia, SC Vehicle: 2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly	I actually like how mine launches with the ACT streetlite version. I'm still running an Exedy sprung disc though. The 2-step is set at 6,200 on average for me.

09-20-2013, 03:16 AM	#2145
griceiv Scooby Newbie Member#: 162781 Join Date: Oct 2007	light weight flywheels? the 34lb exedy twin is where its at.... haha

09-20-2013, 03:41 PM	#2146
zozza8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 118486 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fort Collins, CO Vehicle: 2003 WRX PSM	Greg, how are you planning on setting up the anti-lag?

09-21-2013, 01:33 PM	#2150
wrx wagone Scooby Specialist Member#: 97301 Join Date: Sep 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Phillytown, PA Vehicle: 2005 WRX Wag-Tow Rig 125 FM - QRE Invader	i want video with this on...