ESP - The competition

[subydude]

Originally Posted by BeBop86

I don't think so... I've been chatting with someone else on here that has this same tire and wheel setup and the only issues they had was front fender well openings.

The GD could have a different body seam inside the fender than the GC, but the inbound body itself gets in the way unless you have it at almost stock ride height. The fender openings are the least of the worries IMO in SP

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[CamaroFS34]

Originally Posted by subydude

Also, you guys are going to have problems with body seams and inbound clearance with 315's.

Brad Owen runs 315s. Like me, he has a 2006 WRX.

[subydude]

Originally Posted by CamaroFS34

Brad Owen runs 315s. Like me, he has a 2006 WRX.

The GD must have a different seam on the rear if the fenderwell than the GC. On mine there was a .5 inch seam that stuck out and would contact the tire (once the car was lowered) if I were turning more than about 50-60 degrees. Then the upper, inner fender well shape itself got in the way (the curve you can see in the engine bay in front of the strut towers) and I moved it a little with a hammer as well.

I wasn't saying you couldn't do it, I was just saying that if the GD is anything like the GC you'll have rubbing issues unless you run it at pretty high ride heights

[bradowen]

There is a seam in the rear of the front fender well but with the right setup, bushings, camber, offset, etc. it is not an issue. It is extremely close and when you spin the car and tires, bushings, etc. start to bend and stretch in unusual ways the tire can get into it a little bit.

I'm low but not super low. You can find some pictures from when I first put on the 315's and it was ridiculously tall. It took a while to get down to where the inner fender well is what is limiting going any lower. And no I haven't hit it with a hammer.

It wouldn't really matter anyway since the engine wiring harness is just a hairs width above that. That wiring harness is why I keep those crappy fender liners marginally attached. I think I can come up with a way to move the harness if I wanted to using 15.10.C.1. But it would be iffy and I don't see the point since I would just have to add offset to get it to clear more of the fender well anyway. The car does not need to be any wider that this point!

When I put on the 285s I can only lower it the .3 of an inch you would expect from the OD difference of the tires. The car does get a few inches narrower though which is nice.

[BeBop86]

Hey Brad, are you looking at an older rule book, I'm not seeing what 15.10.C.1 is referring to.

I'm a little confused with the rules, what exactly is and isn't allowed to be modified for tire clearance... fenders only?


Just received my flares in the mail the other day and taped them on to check new clearances... should have them mounted by the end of the month.

I also had my 285's taken off the 18x9.5 +30's and put on the 18x11 +20's (so I can put them up for sale). Looks like they fit fine without any tweaking to current setup, but I will definitely need to add some positive camber at the knuckle with 315s... maybe even remove caster to clear that pinch weld:

[bradowen]

Looks good!

Originally Posted by BeBop86

Hey Brad, are you looking at an older rule book, I'm not seeing what 15.10.C.1 is referring to.

I'm a little confused with the rules, what exactly is and isn't allowed to be modified for tire clearance... fenders only?

I'm not looking at an old rule book. I said it would be iffy... Think of what you would do with the wiring harnesses in the car if you took advantage of 15.10.C.1. 15.9.E says you can't remove them. But you wouldn't just let them flop around now would you?

15.2.A is the rule what you want to look at for modification of fenders/bumpers.

[UWMechEngr]

15.10.C.1 says nothing about wiring harnesses though.

1. Carburetors, fuel injection, and intake manifolds are unrestricted subject to Section 15.10.D. Alternate throttle linkage and connections to facilitate installation of allowed induction systems are permitted but may serve no other purpose. If an induction systemitem is allowed to be removed and its original mounting bracketcan be removed by simply unbolting it, the bracket may be removed as well.

Then again, I can't wrap my head around anything past ST* rules...

[BeBop86]

Ran the 285's on the new 18x11 +20's this last weekend! They're 4lbs heavier per wheel vs. the Mach V wicked awesome's, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought (having torque doesn't hurt either )

So far not much rubbing (minus at full lock, near pinch weld). Waiting to hear from John Berget Tires on some 315's (buying used for local events/test fit purpose), get my offset caster and other bushings in the mail, install those, and find some time to attach the fender flares

I'm hoping (besides possible fender cutting) the offset caster bushings are enough to move the tire away from the pinch weld. It's melted the plastic a little bit probably while at full lock in paddock, but not too much. If it's not.. I'm toying with the idea of swapping the camber plates forward... opposite of what most people do to gain caster... then essentially that should move the tire forward even more. I definitely will need more clearance with 315s...

[UWMechEngr]

Meant to ask you, but you took off pretty quickly from the event. Why's the front bumper black?

[BeBop86]

Left early because had nail in street tire and didn't want to race on them with temp patch. Racing on the hoosiers would have been pointless at that point in the day.

I traded my prodrive molded bumper for a stock bumper plus cash.

I want to possibly get a V1 lip, and I couldn't remove the prodrive lip because it was molded on.

[BeBop86]

Question for those who run competitively/nationally: Do you run with Hoosier Wet's in the rain?

If you don't, what do you use when it's TOO wet to use A6's (standing water)?

I thought about running whatever the street touring guys are running (Dunlop Z2's, Advan AD08rs, etc.), but maybe one step down in "performance rating" would be a better option... like Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's, or Continental DW's? It would be giving up dry traction... but that's not what I'd use them for.

Thoughts?


Tire Rack Tests:
2012: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...t.jsp?ttid=162
(Wet 1st: Goodyear Eagle F1, 2nd: Bridgestone S-04 PP, 3rd: Michelin Pilot SS)

2011: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...t.jsp?ttid=148
(Wet 1st: Michelin Pilot SS, 2nd: Bridgestone S-04 PP, 3rd: Pirelli P Zero, 4th: Continental DW)

2010: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...t.jsp?ttid=140
(Wet 1st: Continental DW, 2nd: Goodyear Eagle F1, 3rd: Michelin PS2)

[subydude]

In heavy rain the Conti DW would be my pick.

[BeBop86]

Yeah, that was my initial first pick. I spoke with Luke@TireRack and he recommended MP tires over UHP for the rain.

I'm still doing research...

I'm not sure if I can compare the charts and data from Ultra-high performance summer tires with Max performance summer tires on Tire Rack's site...

It looks like the Advan AD08r is the best of the UHP tires in the wet... but that doesn't mean it's better in the wet than a MP tire, which has more grooving for water displacement.

[subydude]

I think you're over thinking this If you wanted the best, you'd get a set of Hoosier wets. Since you're already settling for something less, get the DW's (which most people think are the fastest street tire in the wet) and don't worry about it.

Better yet, don't buy the DW's and save the money until next year for a real set of wets. If it rains, big deal. Just drive more sideways.

[BeBop86]

Probably... I do that a lot

No, there are a set of Hoosier wets for sale locally that I'm contemplating buying to take with me to nationals... but I don't want to waste them for local events.

I also happen to need some street tires

[CamaroFS34]

When I ran in DS, I had a set of Hoosier wets on "stand by" in case I ever needed them (they were Eric Kriemelmeyer's from when he ran his Sentra SpecV in GS). I ended up needing them at the 2008 ProSolo Finale. I last used them at the 2009 Toledo ProSolo (running ESP), which was really a waste since unlike the Finale and like most Pros, it only rained one session.

Anyway, the Hoosier wets are great if it is a torrential downpour and you know you will get zero dry runs. If you get even one dry run, it's not worth it.

After my experience three weeks ago, I'll just stick with my Cooper Zeon RS-3A all season "ultra high performance" tires. Are they the best? Probably not, but I'm not going to have a lot of fun changing tires in the pouring down rain and then driving, so screw it.

[wrx wagone]

^^^ I have also used my wets once in about 4 years.

If I could get street tires for wets on my FM car, I would do it too. I hear they are the coolest thing since sliced bread these days...

[BeBop86]

Does anyone know if the SPT aluminum control arms are the exact time item as 06 WRX aluminum front control arms?

If they aren't the same part number, but geometrically are the same (weight, specs, etc.) they should be ESP legal... shouldn't they?

I just bent my steel front control arm while trying to press out the front bushing




Edit, never mind, they are the same:

Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX

^ exactly they have the same arms that are under the SPT label- same arms the 06 WRX (usdm) sedan came w/ ie no extra caster

also the part #'s posted above need to be double checked- the 2004 STi arms should be 20202FE300 left, 310 right

and:

Originally Posted by UkNuck

Hmm... I've been interested in this for a while, and it's certainly the case that the JDM v8 Spec C and the USDM v8 STi (but NOT the regular v7 or v8 JDM STi) had additional caster but I've not seen it definitely stated that this will be realized simply by swapping the arms. So my understanding is:

v7 JDM STi (available as an SPT upgrade for USDM 02/03) will fit but won't give caster change
v8 JDM STi should fit, but won't give caster change
v8 USDM STi and JDM Spec C should fit and may give caster change

I say 'should fit' because there may be gotchas such as crossmember clearance etc. Bump for someone who's actually tried it

Originally Posted by Daishi00

2007 STi arms don't have the increased caster. You just a slightly lighter arm and that's it.

Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts

Correct. They are the same as the 06-07 USDM WRX arms and JDM alm arms.

Tony

[BeBop86]

Just a helpful tip, if anyone is looking to upgrade to Aluminum lower control arms:

The SPT kit has the EXACT arms that the 06 WRX uses, but also comes with new (I've heard Group N?) front bushings, rear bushings, and ball joints... I picked the whole kit up from the dealer for $330! That's cheaper than I could find used, and cheaper than buying them individually.



Did a bunch of digging and learned that Subaru only made two versions of the GD chassis aluminum control arms. The SPT kit contains the V7 JDM (non spec-C) arms, which are the same as USDM 06 WRX and 07 STI:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6#post41949786

[BeBop86]

I'll post pictures here shortly, but just received the arms and they are indeed the same arms as the 2006 WRX, they also came with Group N bushings all around! Score!


Here's a question...

Free caster mod.

The factory service manual DOESN'T actually say or show which orientation the pin is to be installed on the arm. If that's the case, could this be legal?

[BeBop86]

*crickets*

Hello? Anyone still here?

[BeBop86]

Anybody going to crow's landing event, June 14th/15th?

[sureshot007]

Nope. We're moving to ASP apparently.

[BeBop86]

Isn't it just a proposal for now?

[sureshot007]

Considering that the revision just posted only clarifies the move more suggests to me that it's pretty much a done deal. I could be totally wrong, but I have the same feeling about this that I had with Street.