ESP - The competition - Page 96

Splash · 10-23-2014, 06:44 PM

Well, shouldn't your EJ255 should have SOHC heads? Sure, if you consider replacing the heads and pistons for STI versions as a lesser expense than swapping in the whole STI engine, then have at it... Though, you're basically trading a few parts for more labor.

If you don't swap pistons and heads, and given that you can't modify the hood or bellows, how would you merge the square Legacy TMIC with the rectangular hole?

Though, if you're going to swap to STI pistons and heads, just get a VF48 instead of VF52 (can't run the VF52 with a STI engine anyway) and use the TMIC that fits the turbo and hood.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

BeBop86 · 10-23-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

Pick your poison. Fewer rebuilds or best gearing

Would the LGT 2nd (1.882) and FD (4.11) really put any less stress on the transmission?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

So for those playing along, here's my rough outline:

You'd still pick the standard 5spd over the 09+ WRX or LGT 5spd/4.11 rear end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Well, shouldn't your EJ255 should have SOHC heads?

EJ255 came DOHC?

mccanixx · 10-23-2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Well, shouldn't your EJ255 should have SOHC heads? Sure, if you consider replacing the heads and pistons for STI versions as a lesser expense than swapping in the whole STI engine, then have at it... Though, you're basically trading a few parts for more labor.

If you don't swap pistons and heads, and given that you can't modify the hood or bellows, how would you merge the square Legacy TMIC with the rectangular hole?

Though, if you're going to swap to STI pistons and heads, just get a VF48 instead of VF52 (can't run the VF52 with a STI engine anyway) and use the TMIC that fits the turbo and hood.

Pretty sure the wrx heads have been dual cam for a while but not dual AVCS. I consider It to be cheaper to spend 600 on heads, 700 on pistons then 2500-3000 for a good assembly. Turbo's an expense anyway you look at it with this. 400-800 I don't have to account for labor with part swaps.

like this http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=236 Intercooler is open is SP put the ducting on it..

I know that. I said lowest cost of entry with the same power levels. I was simply stating the difference between wrx and sti is piston and heads. That's it.

When I was converting my car in the winter of 2008 I was converting it as a VF52 car. Made sure it was legal with Doug Gill as far as using it on a 2007 wrx assembly. Talked to a couple. at the time, SPAC members and they fastracked it out in February of 2009. Had it been allowed it would have been too easy in ESP and the car would've been moved 2010 anyways...is it ASP quick? remains to be seen.

BeBop86 · 10-23-2014, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

A set of JE pistons

What are these pistons you speak of? Forged OE shape?

bradowen · 10-23-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccanixx

So for those playing along, here's my rough outline:

VF52
Intake from an 09 WRX
Perrin Legacy/WRX interwarmer
Tune
Drive

Not enough power, sure. But minimal entry expense. When I was in STX I wanted moar HP, in ESP I wanted moar HP. They are giveing me the ability to have a moar faster car = moar fun.

My short block is legal as a EJ255. A set of JE pistons and it's an EJ257 shortblock. My 2007 single AVCS D25 heads are identical to the 2009 single AVCS D25 heads. Couple the pistons with STi heads and boom. I can use the STi turbo circa 2007-2011. Not a ton of expense.

I still think barring trying the dual AVCS heads and a low mount, the VF52 is going to get you within the noise of any of the other Turbos, heads, etc. Ultimately I would go this way to get the turbo as close to the heads as possible, if money weren't an issue.

Keep in mind you can get higher C.R. using wrx style pistons with allowable decking. Always good to have the off boost bump...

But I'm a drunkard anyways so maybe I'm wrong.

We should at least make sure we are not all bidding against each other on the VF52s on ebay...

mccanixx · 10-23-2014, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeBop86

What are these pistons you speak of? Forged OE shape?

Yes for sti. Je and Crawford make them. Nobody makes off the shelf wrx.

Butt Dyno · 10-23-2014, 09:36 PM

Ironically if they had done this a few years earlier I would have totally considered ASP as I have always wanted a bugeye body with STi guts (since they never sold the Ver7 STi here). With all the update backdate stuff it seems like there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

#bugeye4life

Splash · 10-24-2014, 12:05 AM

Please disregard anything I said about Ej255 and SOHC. I am simply all wet there. I don't know how I missed it, but they've been DOHC from '06-up.

The only thing, as Greg stated, is that the pistons and heads have to match, 255 or 257.

The only thing I had right was that you couldn't just throw a VF52 on a WRX without making the odd TMIC/hood combo work.

Given that the WRX VF52 is internally the same as the STI VF39/43/48 line, I wouldn't expect much difference in power between a WRX VF52/EJ255 and an STI EJ257..

BeBop86 · 10-24-2014, 03:11 AM

I think the VF52 is the better turbo... Inbetween the two. More power than wrx and quicker spool than sti turbo.

Splash · 10-24-2014, 11:55 AM

The whole series, VF39/43/48/52 all have the exact same CHRA and wheels. All of the turbine housings are all P18, and the the compressor housings have been slightly modded for things like different TGV fitment and the VF52 has the 90 at the end cast in and pointing up instead of the silicone hose 90 pointing back.

In terms of raw airflow, I'd be surprised if there was any difference between them.

You've likely heard that they can't be rebuilt. This is both true and false, depending on how you define a rebuild. The kits for replacing all the bearings and seals rarely work for long, if at all, but you can buy brand new CHRAs and just use your existing housings if they are intact.

This is an area where I'd always considered the EVO as having the ultimate advantage over the Subarus because these cars' primary weapon is acceleration and the turbo that comes stock on an EVO is sold as an upgrade turbo in the Subaru market. If I remember correctly, the EVO 8/9's 16G has at least a 6lb/min advantage over anything in the VF39-52 line.

CamaroFS34 · 10-24-2014, 09:56 PM

Marshall has called me out for being "selfish" on another forum due to my strong disagreement with the move of the WRX to ASP. Part of my response there involved a possible "challenge" that I'm toying with.

"Buy" my WRX. Run it for a year in ASP. Show me that it is, indeed, competitive there, and it's yours. Free. No strings attached. Otherwise, pay me the $12K.

I'm seriously considering this. That is how strongly I feel about how wrong the SEB is about their reasons for the move.

I'll probably come to a conclusion on if I'm going to offer this by Sunday. I've just got to run some numbers.

Splash · 10-25-2014, 12:35 AM

Anyone should do this. One could completely convert your car to a STI for less than 12K, and we know those are competitive (well, at least one is), and that's the expensive way to make it competitive.

If you go the later 5-spd/VF52 route, you could potentially hit STI power levels pretty cheaply since you already have the Ej255 (if you can work out the TMIC issue), and most everything else you should have done already for ESP.

Although, I am not sure what the actual weight difference is between an '06 WRX base and an '02 WRX. Most sites suggest that it's roughly 100lbs, but I figure Greg and yourself (or any other ESP WRX out there) might have done some real world weighing. It would be great if the earlier and later GD WRX were weighed at the same event. You could simply be giving a 100lb advantage away to the EJ255-swapped '02-'03 cars (Not that 100lbs would prevent you from being competitive).

Actually, there's another advantage the '02-'05 WRX may have over the cars that came with Ej255's, the TMIC splitter and seal. If I remember right, the '06-'07 WRX stock intercooler is wide and VERY narrow front-to-back, meaning that the splitter and rubber seal (parts you aren't allowed to touch in SP) would make a wide/shallow hole for the air, which will interface even less easily with the almost square TMIC you would need with a VF52. At least the earlier WRX's are somewhat closer to square than that.

sureshot007 · 10-25-2014, 08:34 AM

Why are you so concerned about the intercooler? In SP, you can change it to whatever you want.

I agree with Karen about the silliness of the rule change...but I think the wrx *can* be made to be competitive - for the right price. I think it would be cost prohibitive, though, and that "normal" people would just buy a $14k STI and start with that. But, in the grand scheme of things, nobody at the top really cares. It would be like the 4cyl FBody guys complaining about wanting to be in FSP.

mccanixx · 10-25-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshot007

Why are you so concerned about the intercooler? In SP, you can change it to whatever you want.

Yeah. one call to Corky Bell and you'll have a perfectly sized custom built intercooler that fits in about any hole you're trying to stuff it in. Giggity!

I'm guessing it wouldn't be crazy $$$ in the grand scheme as well...hmmm

Mojambo · 10-25-2014, 07:33 PM

I really like where all of this is going.

My question is: why is the 02-03 100lbs lighter?

For this reason, I think it is the best chassis on which to base a full build. If I find a chassis locally and clean, I would totally swap everything into it to save 100lbs

CamaroFS34 · 10-26-2014, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroFS34

Marshall has called me out for being "selfish" on another forum due to my strong disagreement with the move of the WRX to ASP. Part of my response there involved a possible "challenge" that I'm toying with.

"Buy" my WRX. Run it for a year in ASP. Show me that it is, indeed, competitive there, and it's yours. Free. No strings attached. Otherwise, pay me the $12K.

I'm seriously considering this. That is how strongly I feel about how wrong the SEB is about their reasons for the move.

I'll probably come to a conclusion on if I'm going to offer this by Sunday. I've just got to run some numbers.

I posted my decision in my build thread and my for sale thread.

If you think my WRX is capable of winning with just a VF52, then prove it. I'll pay for the upgrades. You just have to get the car to/from Nationals. If you don't win, you reimburse me for the upgrades I've done per your suggestions (if it's something like tires, I'll pay for those). If you win, it's essentially a free codrive, minus your costs to get the car there/back.

I made the same offer eight years ago when I was against the inclusion of the Shelby GT in FS (because, like the Camaro SS, it was modified after it left the factory assembly line). None of those who swore to me that my Camaros were still competitive in FS would take me up on the offer, and I said it applied equally to either of my cars.

I sincerely doubt anyone will take me up on this offer either, because deep down, they know it isn't really capable of winning against the STi, much less the Evo.

Splash · 10-27-2014, 12:51 AM

My concern around the TMIC is that where a VF52 sits vs where an '02-'07 stock hood, splitter, and bellows wants the TMIC to be is the same spot on the passenger side.

The rubber bellows seal sits right on (rather, IN) the stock intercooler, so I just don't see where there's room to make a "adapter seal" that would mate the two different rectangles. The VF52 outlet will prevent you from sitting the TMIC in deeper to make room for an adapter seal, so that's out.

Yes, you can get a custom TMIC made, but every time I've seen that done before it wasn't cheap. Plus, the right side has a size limit of whats within that rubber seal, and the left side is limited by the need to put the end tank over the VF52 outlet. If anyone bitched about the stock WRX TMIC being too small, this one will be even smaller.

Sure, you could just bolt the square TMIC in there anyway, you could even make flat panels on the sides of the TMIC to prevent the air from spilling over, but the air will still only get to a 6-7" wide stripe in the middle of the square TMIC, leaving the upper and lower portions completely obscured.

My concern was never that you couldn't make whatever you wanted for an intercooler, it was the requirement of a custom one to fit the turbo/hood (which will compromise area more so than stock) without reverting to some sort of FMIC-type solution that just makes the intake tract impossibly long. Just because you can make whatever IC you want, doesn't mean you don't have to worry about how to get it an adequate amount of air.

Karen: I like the changes, but you have made it so that nobody will take you up on it. Before this year, an STI has not won in SP since they were in ESP. Thanks to Eric and Rodgerson, we know an STI 'can' win, and we know that your car can be converted to be an STI, so it 'can' win too, but now you've made winning the requirement (as opposed to just making it competitive), and the odds are not in favor of the gambler on that one. If you actually want someone to take you up on it, go back to being competitive (and establish what you consider that to be).

Eric: I simply looked up a 2002 WRX and a 2006 WRX base on Edmunds, and it goes from 3085 to 3194. I know these are generic numbers, hence my question about anyone with these cars in SP trim having weighed theirs, preferably at the same event so we know the scales are the same.

CamaroFS34 · 10-27-2014, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Karen: I like the changes, but you have made it so that nobody will take you up on it. Before this year, an STI has not won in SP since they were in ESP. Thanks to Eric and Rodgerson, we know an STI 'can' win, and we know that your car can be converted to be an STI, so it 'can' win too, but now you've made winning the requirement (as opposed to just making it competitive), and the odds are not in favor of the gambler on that one. If you actually want someone to take you up on it, go back to being competitive (and establish what you consider that to be).

Two people are already discussing the deal with me. I'm a reasonable person, and obviously things happen with things like rain, etc. that can render even the least competitive car a winner. So, yes, the details on "competitive" are negotiable, but they must still be concrete and measurable. Hence the overall posting saying it's a "win or nothing," and if someone's serious (as at least two people are right now), we'll fine tune the details privately.

Oh, and Greg and I have weighed our cars at the same events, and they have always come in ~200lbs different.

sureshot007 · 10-27-2014, 07:49 AM

What about running a leggy style (or new wrx style) manifold with the turbo on the bottom? You could probably get away with just doing the exhaust manifold + turbo, and then do custom piping/intercooler (custom as in "not stock", but still off the shelf stuff - but I bet it would work with an OEM style TMIC).

mccanixx · 10-27-2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshot007

What about running a leggy style (or new wrx style) manifold with the turbo on the bottom? You could probably get away with just doing the exhaust manifold + turbo, and then do custom piping/intercooler (custom as in "not stock", but still off the shelf stuff - but I bet it would work with an OEM style TMIC).

Depending on the differences between the legacy 2.5 and the WRX 2.5 and we all know the 2.0 D.I. is completely different. You'd run into the "whole assembly" issues.

The 2.0 D.I. is intriguing to me though. $$$$$$$$$$

Just cursory searches of 2010 legacy dyno #'s don't peak my interest enough to try it ($$$). I realize it's a stage 2 E-85 tune that doesn't necessarily correspond but I don't know. Maybe add 10% increase for all the supporting SP stuff and tooned to pop? Still in the cheaper VF52 install territory.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...61&postcount=1

I'm not worried about the interwarmer. I've had several different non-hood scoop fitting iterations. They all perform well enough for auto-x.

sureshot007 · 10-27-2014, 11:53 AM

A friend's 2010 LGT on E85:

Fast Spool? It makes over 250 ftlbs at 2500rpms.

mccanixx · 10-27-2014, 12:17 PM

That's the one I linked.

Dual AVCS heads. Turbo closer. Both advantageous but the standard mounted VF52 is still with-in spitting distance...

Or at least my wallet keeps telling me that.

I'm going to use that manifold for the mock-up on the FP car.

Hold_Fast · 11-17-2014, 07:30 PM

With this box, I say fair well to ESP/ASP. I just <3 my 5 speed too much, and the McCance transmission dance isn't for me.

[/UR

mccanixx · 11-18-2014, 06:06 PM

^^^ Right on!

subydude · 11-18-2014, 08:56 PM

If only their 6-speed offerings weren't so pricey!!

Greg, I thought there was some tomfoolery with the oil pan needed to run the low mount manifold along with a different subframe. I haven't looked into it for a while since my initial design used what I already have. I'm sure you could get around it though.

10-24-2014, 12:05 AM	#2383
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	Please disregard anything I said about Ej255 and SOHC. I am simply all wet there. I don't know how I missed it, but they've been DOHC from '06-up. The only thing, as Greg stated, is that the pistons and heads have to match, 255 or 257. The only thing I had right was that you couldn't just throw a VF52 on a WRX without making the odd TMIC/hood combo work. Given that the WRX VF52 is internally the same as the STI VF39/43/48 line, I wouldn't expect much difference in power between a WRX VF52/EJ255 and an STI EJ257.. Last edited by Splash; 10-24-2014 at 12:11 AM.

10-25-2014, 12:35 AM	#2387
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	Anyone should do this. One could completely convert your car to a STI for less than 12K, and we know those are competitive (well, at least one is), and that's the expensive way to make it competitive. If you go the later 5-spd/VF52 route, you could potentially hit STI power levels pretty cheaply since you already have the Ej255 (if you can work out the TMIC issue), and most everything else you should have done already for ESP. Although, I am not sure what the actual weight difference is between an '06 WRX base and an '02 WRX. Most sites suggest that it's roughly 100lbs, but I figure Greg and yourself (or any other ESP WRX out there) might have done some real world weighing. It would be great if the earlier and later GD WRX were weighed at the same event. You could simply be giving a 100lb advantage away to the EJ255-swapped '02-'03 cars (Not that 100lbs would prevent you from being competitive). Actually, there's another advantage the '02-'05 WRX may have over the cars that came with Ej255's, the TMIC splitter and seal. If I remember right, the '06-'07 WRX stock intercooler is wide and VERY narrow front-to-back, meaning that the splitter and rubber seal (parts you aren't allowed to touch in SP) would make a wide/shallow hole for the air, which will interface even less easily with the almost square TMIC you would need with a VF52. At least the earlier WRX's are somewhat closer to square than that. Last edited by Splash; 10-25-2014 at 12:53 AM.

10-27-2014, 07:49 AM	#2394
sureshot007 Scooby Specialist Member#: 142405 Join Date: Mar 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: TeamHazardRally.com Vehicle: #716 Group5 S10	What about running a leggy style (or new wrx style) manifold with the turbo on the bottom? You could probably get away with just doing the exhaust manifold + turbo, and then do custom piping/intercooler (custom as in "not stock", but still off the shelf stuff - but I bet it would work with an OEM style TMIC). Last edited by sureshot007; 10-27-2014 at 07:55 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
ESP-The 2002 WRX Project	Butt Dyno	NASIOC Project Cars	803	05-08-2022 07:15 PM
The Competition (strictly by the numbers)	R Diamond	STi Forum Archive	9	05-22-2003 04:16 PM
The Competition is Worried..G Stock is worried	Scooby South	Motorsports	10	02-23-2001 04:41 PM
Weapon R Intakes vs. the competition	Matthew Nelson	General Forum Archive	3	08-31-2000 12:19 AM
0-50 vs the competition	bryanw	General Forum Archive	11	08-11-2000 08:15 PM

10-23-2014, 06:44 PM	#2376
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	Well, shouldn't your EJ255 should have SOHC heads? Sure, if you consider replacing the heads and pistons for STI versions as a lesser expense than swapping in the whole STI engine, then have at it... Though, you're basically trading a few parts for more labor. If you don't swap pistons and heads, and given that you can't modify the hood or bellows, how would you merge the square Legacy TMIC with the rectangular hole? Though, if you're going to swap to STI pistons and heads, just get a VF48 instead of VF52 (can't run the VF52 with a STI engine anyway) and use the TMIC that fits the turbo and hood. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-23-2014, 09:36 PM	#2382
Butt Dyno Street's closed, pizza boy Member#: 17301 Join Date: Apr 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVA Vehicle: 2018 Focus RS 2006 Evo #17 STU	Ironically if they had done this a few years earlier I would have totally considered ASP as I have always wanted a bugeye body with STi guts (since they never sold the Ver7 STi here). With all the update backdate stuff it seems like there are a lot of interesting possibilities. #bugeye4life

10-24-2014, 03:11 AM	#2384
BeBop86 Scooby Guru Member#: 147776 Join Date: May 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 2001 Forester 2013 Scion FR-S	I think the VF52 is the better turbo... Inbetween the two. More power than wrx and quicker spool than sti turbo.

10-24-2014, 11:55 AM	#2385
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	The whole series, VF39/43/48/52 all have the exact same CHRA and wheels. All of the turbine housings are all P18, and the the compressor housings have been slightly modded for things like different TGV fitment and the VF52 has the 90 at the end cast in and pointing up instead of the silicone hose 90 pointing back. In terms of raw airflow, I'd be surprised if there was any difference between them. You've likely heard that they can't be rebuilt. This is both true and false, depending on how you define a rebuild. The kits for replacing all the bearings and seals rarely work for long, if at all, but you can buy brand new CHRAs and just use your existing housings if they are intact. This is an area where I'd always considered the EVO as having the ultimate advantage over the Subarus because these cars' primary weapon is acceleration and the turbo that comes stock on an EVO is sold as an upgrade turbo in the Subaru market. If I remember correctly, the EVO 8/9's 16G has at least a 6lb/min advantage over anything in the VF39-52 line.

10-24-2014, 09:56 PM	#2386
CamaroFS34 Scooby Guru Member#: 6850 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: SoBWI, MD Vehicle: 1996 Camaro Z28 1LE, '23 WRX & '19 XV	Marshall has called me out for being "selfish" on another forum due to my strong disagreement with the move of the WRX to ASP. Part of my response there involved a possible "challenge" that I'm toying with. "Buy" my WRX. Run it for a year in ASP. Show me that it is, indeed, competitive there, and it's yours. Free. No strings attached. Otherwise, pay me the $12K. I'm seriously considering this. That is how strongly I feel about how wrong the SEB is about their reasons for the move. I'll probably come to a conclusion on if I'm going to offer this by Sunday. I've just got to run some numbers.

10-25-2014, 08:34 AM	#2388
sureshot007 Scooby Specialist Member#: 142405 Join Date: Mar 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: TeamHazardRally.com Vehicle: #716 Group5 S10	Why are you so concerned about the intercooler? In SP, you can change it to whatever you want. I agree with Karen about the silliness of the rule change...but I think the wrx can be made to be competitive - for the right price. I think it would be cost prohibitive, though, and that "normal" people would just buy a $14k STI and start with that. But, in the grand scheme of things, nobody at the top really cares. It would be like the 4cyl FBody guys complaining about wanting to be in FSP.

10-25-2014, 07:33 PM	#2390
Mojambo Scooby Specialist Member#: 102581 Join Date: Dec 2005 Chapter/Region: E. Canada Location: Ottawa, Canada Vehicle: 2006 STI-USDM SGM	I really like where all of this is going. My question is: why is the 02-03 100lbs lighter? For this reason, I think it is the best chassis on which to base a full build. If I find a chassis locally and clean, I would totally swap everything into it to save 100lbs

10-27-2014, 12:51 AM	#2392
Splash Scooby Specialist Member#: 55936 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus, OH Vehicle: 04 WRX STi PSM	My concern around the TMIC is that where a VF52 sits vs where an '02-'07 stock hood, splitter, and bellows wants the TMIC to be is the same spot on the passenger side. The rubber bellows seal sits right on (rather, IN) the stock intercooler, so I just don't see where there's room to make a "adapter seal" that would mate the two different rectangles. The VF52 outlet will prevent you from sitting the TMIC in deeper to make room for an adapter seal, so that's out. Yes, you can get a custom TMIC made, but every time I've seen that done before it wasn't cheap. Plus, the right side has a size limit of whats within that rubber seal, and the left side is limited by the need to put the end tank over the VF52 outlet. If anyone bitched about the stock WRX TMIC being too small, this one will be even smaller. Sure, you could just bolt the square TMIC in there anyway, you could even make flat panels on the sides of the TMIC to prevent the air from spilling over, but the air will still only get to a 6-7" wide stripe in the middle of the square TMIC, leaving the upper and lower portions completely obscured. My concern was never that you couldn't make whatever you wanted for an intercooler, it was the requirement of a custom one to fit the turbo/hood (which will compromise area more so than stock) without reverting to some sort of FMIC-type solution that just makes the intake tract impossibly long. Just because you can make whatever IC you want, doesn't mean you don't have to worry about how to get it an adequate amount of air. Karen: I like the changes, but you have made it so that nobody will take you up on it. Before this year, an STI has not won in SP since they were in ESP. Thanks to Eric and Rodgerson, we know an STI 'can' win, and we know that your car can be converted to be an STI, so it 'can' win too, but now you've made winning the requirement (as opposed to just making it competitive), and the odds are not in favor of the gambler on that one. If you actually want someone to take you up on it, go back to being competitive (and establish what you consider that to be). Eric: I simply looked up a 2002 WRX and a 2006 WRX base on Edmunds, and it goes from 3085 to 3194. I know these are generic numbers, hence my question about anyone with these cars in SP trim having weighed theirs, preferably at the same event so we know the scales are the same.

10-27-2014, 11:53 AM	#2396
sureshot007 Scooby Specialist Member#: 142405 Join Date: Mar 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: TeamHazardRally.com Vehicle: #716 Group5 S10	A friend's 2010 LGT on E85: Fast Spool? It makes over 250 ftlbs at 2500rpms.

10-27-2014, 12:17 PM	#2397
mccanixx Scooby Specialist Member#: 60566 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego, Ca. Vehicle: 2005 XT 5sp, 02 WRX 01 Legacy 95 Impreza L	That's the one I linked. Dual AVCS heads. Turbo closer. Both advantageous but the standard mounted VF52 is still with-in spitting distance... Or at least my wallet keeps telling me that. I'm going to use that manifold for the mock-up on the FP car.

11-17-2014, 07:30 PM	#2398
Hold_Fast Scooby Specialist Member#: 175837 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Philly Burbs Vehicle: #61 9.5% FP	With this box, I say fair well to ESP/ASP. I just <3 my 5 speed too much, and the McCance transmission dance isn't for me. [/UR

11-18-2014, 06:06 PM	#2399
mccanixx Scooby Specialist Member#: 60566 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego, Ca. Vehicle: 2005 XT 5sp, 02 WRX 01 Legacy 95 Impreza L	^^^ Right on!

11-18-2014, 08:56 PM	#2400
subydude Scooby Guru Member#: 80649 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Columbia, SC Vehicle: 2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly	If only their 6-speed offerings weren't so pricey!! Greg, I thought there was some tomfoolery with the oil pan needed to run the low mount manifold along with a different subframe. I haven't looked into it for a while since my initial design used what I already have. I'm sure you could get around it though.