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[racerjon1]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

That's not how it works though. You have to use a gearbox as a complete unit, as the part number came from Subaru. So you can grab any gearbox you want from a 98-01 RS or '02+ RS/TS/2.5i, but you can't crack them open and swap around gear ratios or front final drives (though you can add or change a limited slip unit).

This is correct, it has to be changed "as a unit".

But if it's a matter of changing the transmission and then the rear end, it shouldn't be an issue.


Jon

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[Patrick L]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

That's not how it works though. You have to use a gearbox as a complete unit, as the part number came from Subaru. So you can grab any gearbox you want from a 98-01 RS or '02+ RS/TS/2.5i, but you can't crack them open and swap around gear ratios or front final drives (though you can add or change a limited slip unit).

That may not be how it works but that's the way I would go about doing it. The tranny case may come with parts numbers on the outside but who's to say I didn't rebuild it and replace the case or build one from the correct parts. No more stickers. It's just a technicality. IMO, if the tranny meets the factory specs for that year. It should be just fine. If someone want to protest it, they are a weeny.

an ITS Impreza in DSP, you can put what ever final drive you want.

Might have to send a letter to see about an exception for AWD cars about final drive UD/BD with the whole as a "unit".

[Storm]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

That's not how it works though. You have to use a gearbox as a complete unit, as the part number came from Subaru. So you can grab any gearbox you want from a 98-01 RS or '02+ RS/TS/2.5i, but you can't crack them open and swap around gear ratios or front final drives (though you can add or change a limited slip unit).

This is true, however, the rulebook states that final drive ratios are specifically allowed to be changed with the UD/BD. On a Subaru AWD trans, the trans has to be cracked in order to change that front ratio. It is also correct that individual gear ratios may not be mixed and matched from one year to another.

Putting an '04TS front ring/pinion into a '00RS box with the 04TS rear diff would be totally legal.

Having an '00RS box with an '04TS 2nd gear would not be legal.

Jay

[42Autosports]

Originally Posted by Patrick L

What is the ratio of the gears in the back of the TS transfer case 1:1 like the GC RS or 1.1:1 like the WRX. The WRX has the 3.90 rear diff but the front ring and pinion is like a 3.54 IIRC.

Also, you would be correct about the TS as it says "Impreza 2.5"

The 04 TS and Outback are both 1:1 like the GC RS.

I agree with Storm, I think it would be legal to swap the ring and pinion into the RS trans as long as the trans portion is unchanged. Sounds like a great thing to do when you are upgrading your diffs.

[BAN SUVS]

Originally Posted by Storm

This is true, however, the rulebook states that final drive ratios are specifically allowed to be changed with the UD/BD. On a Subaru AWD trans, the trans has to be cracked in order to change that front ratio. It is also correct that individual gear ratios may not be mixed and matched from one year to another.

Putting an '04TS front ring/pinion into a '00RS box with the 04TS rear diff would be totally legal.

Having an '00RS box with an '04TS 2nd gear would not be legal.

Jay

I forgot about the final drive allowance.

[solo-x]

Originally Posted by Storm

This is true, however, the rulebook states that final drive ratios are specifically allowed to be changed with the UD/BD. On a Subaru AWD trans, the trans has to be cracked in order to change that front ratio. It is also correct that individual gear ratios may not be mixed and matched from one year to another.

Putting an '04TS front ring/pinion into a '00RS box with the 04TS rear diff would be totally legal.

Having an '00RS box with an '04TS 2nd gear would not be legal.

Jay

Is that the special towing package for the Subaru?

ps. what you suggest would not be legal. You _could_ swap just the final drive in the REAR diff, but you can't crack the trans open and swap the final drive.

[solo-x]

The relevant section in the rules:

The updating
and/or backdating of engines, transmissions, transaxles, and/or uni-
bodies must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may
not be interchanged.

[racerjon1]

I think because the language says "transaxles" it's pretty clear.

If transaxles were treated differently, then this might be a way to change and swap, but because they are not, it isn't.

Change the whole unit - in the case of the Subaru, what is essentially a transaxle - or don't mess with it. A protest might be a "weenie" protest, but the rule is clear, so it's not one I would be taking a chance on. Tranmissions are too cheap to take the chance.


Jon

[Storm]

Originally Posted by solo-x

Is that the special towing package for the Subaru?

ps. what you suggest would not be legal. You _could_ swap just the final drive in the REAR diff, but you can't crack the trans open and swap the final drive.

If that's the case, then only RWD cars would be allowed to change final drive ratios. FWD cars would be excluded from this allowance, and surely NOT the intent of the rule. If it IS the intent, then letters need to be written to rectify it.

Jay

[42Autosports]

Originally Posted by SCCA

The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance.

The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions, transaxles, and/or uni-bodies must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged.

This would imply that the allowed final drive changes are illegal for all FWD, Mid Engine and AWD Transaxle vehicles unless they swap the entire trans. Apparently only RWD vehicles get the luxury of choosing a legal Ring and Pinion and swapping it onto their existing diff.

Perhaps a clarifi-change is in order. Any chance Doug Gill is watching the DSP thread?

[racerjon1]

Originally Posted by Storm

If that's the case, then only RWD cars would be allowed to change final drive ratios. FWD cars would be excluded from this allowance, and surely NOT the intent of the rule. If it IS the intent, then letters need to be written to rectify it.

Jay

I believe it is the intent of the SP rules to dissallow final drive changes unless it is done through update/backdate as specified. (rear end or transmission/transaxle as a whole.)

That's the way I have always read it, and that's the way it's being read by the top FWD teams I compete with on a weekly basis. (Who have stacks of trophies and a closet full of jackets.)


Jon

[solo-x]

Originally Posted by Storm

If that's the case, then only RWD cars would be allowed to change final drive ratios. FWD cars would be excluded from this allowance, and surely NOT the intent of the rule. If it IS the intent, then letters need to be written to rectify it.

Jay

RWD cars that do not use a transaxle could ud/bd final drive ratios. Cars that use a transaxle have to ud/bd the entire unit. I don't see any reason for a clarification, this fits within the SP intent completely and is quite clear in the ud/bd allowance. Them the breaks, but the cars are also classed with this in mind.

Side note, the allowance is update/backdate, there is no allowance to change the final drive except through ud/bd. There is a distinct difference between the two when it comes to rules making.

[solo-x]

BTW, I fully get that you have to crack the case to change the diff, and that changing the final drive at that point is nearly a no brainer. That was the argument I presented when I proposed open final drives in SP. Nobody would like it if my car got a 4.7 final though.

[solo-x]

Originally Posted by 42Autosports

Any chance Doug Gill is watching the DSP thread?

Doug is a valuable resource for helping interpret a rule, but he's not the guy who gets the letter when someone requests a clarification, or when the SEB requests that the relevant AC comment on whether something is legal or not. I'm pretty sure I know what he'd say too. And you are right, non-transaxle equipped cars get the luxury of ud/bd to a different final separately from their transmission ratios.

[Storm]

I'll be damned if I can find the allowance for final drive ratios to be changed now......I wonder how many years back I'd have to go to find it. I know I remember reading it at one point.


Jay

[WastingTime]

Small stupid question for DSP. I don't think I am allowed but whats the deal with trunk swapping? I was thinking about doing a wingless trunk or even the trunk from an 01 with the OEM spoiler.
Second, are JDM taillights alright?

I highly doubt I would cause any trouble locally but I am considering stepping up my game and start competing regionally and possibly nationally (if I can hang). I don't want to have to change things at the events.

[BAN SUVS]

The taillights are definitely okay, they are physically the same as the stock ones, just no orange in them. You're also allowed to add/modify/remove a spoiler, so a trunk swap is also fine.

[WastingTime]

awesome thanks man!

[racerjon1]

Drove to Jacksonville, Florida today and a DOHC engine landed in the back of the truck..


:-D
Jon
(who's goal it seemes is to fit every engine available in an Impreza 2.5 in his car before this thing is over..)

[Patrick L]

I could build you a motor like this.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=fe164338da

[WastingTime]

Seeing that I stole the idea for my tire size from some of you guys, do any of you have some tires you are looking to unload that are worn from last season? I want to get at least another full set to do some casual events and TNTs

[racerjon1]

Originally Posted by WastingTime

Seeing that I stole the idea for my tire size from some of you guys, do any of you have some tires you are looking to unload that are worn from last season? I want to get at least another full set to do some casual events and TNTs

Mine get tossed when they have cords showing.. When they get out past 60 runs I try to let the wife/guest drivers use them to save $$$.


Jon

[WastingTime]

Originally Posted by racerjon1

Mine get tossed when they have cords showing.. When they get out past 60 runs I try to let the wife/guest drivers use them to save $$$.


Jon

understandable... I still have my set from last year, I'm guessing they have about 25-30% left on them surprisingly. But thanks anyway

[solo-x]

Latest update on the DSP ITR. I've finally upgraded the stock diff to an OS Gikken. This should solve the wheelspin issues I was having, and should help the car come off corners better.

ps. Jon, I'm going to be seriously disappointed if you don't make any Pros next year.

[OBPlarrimore]

any events near maryland